I thought I had lost it, but I just found it! Note: it's only an interface, LOTS of work will be needed if anyone wants to finish it...

(url="http://"http://qwerpoiu.com/ACE.sit")qwerpoiu.com/ACE.sit(/url)

------------------
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ed by aschaaf_86:
**I thought I had lost it, but I just found it! Note: it's only an interface, LOTS of work will be needed if anyone wants to finish it...

(url="http://"http://qwerpoiu.com/ACE.sit")qwerpoiu.com/ACE.sit(/url)

**(/QUOTE)

I wish I knew how. :frown:

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------------------
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Quote

Originally posted by aschaaf_86:
**I thought I had lost it, but I just found it! Note: it's only an interface, LOTS of work will be needed if anyone wants to finish it...

qwerpoiu.com/ACE.sit

**

I wouldn't mind having a go at it. No promises, but if you could email it to me aschaaf I'll see what I can do.

------------------
Liz the Wiz:)

There are two rules for ultimate success in life. (1) Never tell everything you know.

Yes!
I had just begun experimenting to see if AppleScript could possibly do a conversation editor, but the answer is no. But now I get to take a look at yours
I just hope it's in C/C++ and not RealBasic because I don't have the full version of RealBasic... yet (though I don't plan on getting it).
I'll take a look.

Oh, and thanks aschaaf. I can tell you still care about us Ferazel-ers somewhat.

Now for a new name... How about ICE? "The Improved Conversation Editor based on ACE"

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OK, I've taken a look at it and I like it. But before I start changing too much, I need some help and opinions.
First off, I guess this topic should become a type of Progress Log for ACE.

Here are some features ACE currently supports:

• User can select picture graphic from a list instead of finding out its ID

• Like above, there is an option to enter the default character name for the user. (I need opinions on the default names for character IDs 4002-4009, 4016-4019, 4022, 4023, and 4030-4033)

• Edit responses/conditionals/actions/gotos in same window

• View all available conversations for game in menu

• Clear All... button

• Menu of available conditionals/actions instead of typipng in their IDs

• Built-in Help and Tips

• Test conversation in editor

Features ACE needs:

• Conversation Name field

• Change Conversation ID button

• Pre-Conv Actions

• Remove Conversation button

• Here is where I need your advice. Post some things you'd like to see in a conversation editor.

Features ACE has, but I don't know what they're supposed to do. Help me here:

• Check... button

• Game Menu

Questions/Opinions/Application Behavior Issues:

• "Save" will save conversation(s) into the currently open file (unless it's a new untitled file)

• "Save As..." should be called "Save Into..." and add the conversations to an existing World Data file located by the user

• "Open" opens the conversations of an existing World Data file located by the user

• "New" should be called "New Conversation" and creates a new conversation ID for the file (which would show up in the list of available conversations)

• What should "New game" do? How about make a new World Data file with a single tiny level and a Dimbo sprite (for example) with info (0) set to conversation ID 128, then create a new blank conversation with an ID of 128, where the user can begin to edit it. Therefore playing the level would immediately allow the user to test the conversation. Or, should it just make a blank conversation in memory that should be "Save Into..."-ed by the user?

• What types of preferences could a conversation editor possibly have?

• There's also an issue I'm unsure about. I'll look at it later, but here it is: I thought pre-conv actions were (0) then the twenty lines were (1)-(20) but the declaration says conversations(20), so that wouuld make (0) the pre-conv and the nineteen not twenty lines (1)-(19). I thought there were 20 lines in addition to the pre-conv in the MASCOT editor, so that doesn't make sense. But again, I'll look that one over.

• What should the conversation editor be named? It isn't really Andrew's Conversation Editor anymore... (again, I propose ICE)

So, please try to answer any questions or issues I've presented and propose features you'd like to see. This way we'll have a conversation editor that pleases everyone.

(edit)Wow that's a long post :D(/edit)

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(This message has been edited by PCheese (edited 07-06-2002).)

Quote

Originally posted by PCheese:
**
Features ACE has, but I don't know what they're supposed to do. Help me here:

• Check... button

• Game Menu

**

It sounds like Check would open a window that would go through your conversation, checking it.

Quote

Originally posted by PCheese:
(*)What should "New game" do? How about make a new World Data file with a single tiny level and a Dimbo sprite (for example) with info (0) set to conversation ID 128, then create a new blank conversation with an ID of 128, where the user can begin to edit it. Therefore playing the level would immediately allow the user to test the conversation. Or, should it just make a blank conversation in memory that should be "Save Into..."-ed by the user?

(/B)

I think it should create a blank conversation.

Quote

Originally posted by PCheese:
(*)What types of preferences could a conversation editor possibly have?
(/B)

The only one I can think of is what happens when you launch the conversation editor: If you get nothing, a blank conversation, or an open screen.

Quote

Originally posted by PCheese:
(*)What should the conversation editor be named? It isn't really Andrew's Conversation Editor anymore... (again, I propose ICE)
(/list)
(/B)

Not another acronym! How about just "Ferazel Conversation Editor X"?

Andrew went kinda button crazy with the interface--you need to scrap all those buttons on the side and place them in menus.

I think conditions and actions should woek like triggers in StarEdit. For example, if you clicked "new action" and selected the recieve trigger, in the window it would say "ferazel recieves <item number> <item> Then you'd click on item number and item to change their values, so It would say something like "Ferazel recieves 1 Gold Key." This would prevent you from having a zillion dialog boxes and a zillion popup menus.

The number one goal this conversation editor should have is that you shouldn't have to type in a single ID.

Good luck! I wish I could help you. :frown: Unfortunutely the only thing I could do would be beta testing.

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Quote

Originally posted by PCheese:
**OK, I've taken a look at it and I like it. But before I start changing too much, I need some help and opinions.
First off, I guess this topic should become a type of Progress Log for ACE.

Here are some features ACE currently supports:

• User can select picture graphic from a list instead of finding out its ID

• Like above, there is an option to enter the default character name for the user. (I need opinions on the default names for character IDs 4002-4009, 4016-4019, 4022, 4023, and 4030-4033)

• Edit responses/conditionals/actions/gotos in same window

• View all available conversations for game in menu

• Clear All... button

• Menu of available conditionals/actions instead of typipng in their IDs

• Built-in Help and Tips

• Test conversation in editor

Features ACE needs:

• Conversation Name field

• Change Conversation ID button

• Pre-Conv Actions

• Remove Conversation button

• Here is where I need your advice. Post some things you'd like to see in a conversation editor.

Features ACE has, but I don't know what they're supposed to do. Help me here:

• Check... button

• Game Menu

Questions/Opinions/Application Behavior Issues:

• "Save" will save conversation(s) into the currently open file (unless it's a new untitled file)

• "Save As..." should be called "Save Into..." and add the conversations to an existing World Data file located by the user

• "Open" opens the conversations of an existing World Data file located by the user

• "New" should be called "New Conversation" and creates a new conversation ID for the file (which would show up in the list of available conversations)

• What should "New game" do? How about make a new World Data file with a single tiny level and a Dimbo sprite (for example) with info (0) set to conversation ID 128, then create a new blank conversation with an ID of 128, where the user can begin to edit it. Therefore playing the level would immediately allow the user to test the conversation. Or, should it just make a blank conversation in memory that should be "Save Into..."-ed by the user?

• What types of preferences could a conversation editor possibly have?

• There's also an issue I'm unsure about. I'll look at it later, but here it is: I thought pre-conv actions were (0) then the twenty lines were (1)-(20) but the declaration says conversations(20), so that wouuld make (0) the pre-conv and the nineteen not twenty lines (1)-(19). I thought there were 20 lines in addition to the pre-conv in the MASCOT editor, so that doesn't make sense. But again, I'll look that one over.

• What should the conversation editor be named? It isn't really Andrew's Conversation Editor anymore... (again, I propose ICE)

So, please try to answer any questions or issues I've presented and propose features you'd like to see. This way we'll have a conversation editor that pleases everyone.

(edit)Wow that's a long post :D(/edit)
**

This is going to be great. I can't wait to use ICE to complete Ketzerbrennung (essentially all that is left is conversations.)
First, I like ICE (Acronyms Hooray! ) But I agree with all the points cat99 made, simplicity is golden, and there should be no id-ing. As to the New game option, I don't think it need exist, as long as there is a new conversation option. Besides that I have little to suggest. Good luck, can't wait to use it.

------------------
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Visit the new (url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/emudevelopers/ferazel")Extemporaneous Website(/url).

Oh, maybe I forgot to mention one thing. I don't have OS X. Yet. So don't be surprised if it doesn't work on OS X. But if the original ACE code runs native, it'll be OK.

I think C/C++ is relatively easy to port if it's a rather simple application, so I might finish it for 9 and below and then port it once I get Jaguar.

Sorry folks, but I'm doing my best. (But MASCOT editor doesn't run native, so you still have to launch Classic for that it shouldn't be too much of a pain. Or at least its simplicity could make up for it.)

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Quote

Originally posted by PCheese:
**Oh, maybe I forgot to mention one thing. I don't have OS X. Yet. So don't be surprised if it doesn't work on OS X. But if the original ACE code runs native, it'll be OK.

**

If I double-click on "Carbon Shell" it launches in OS X with an aqua interface. Does this mean it should run in X?

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Quote

Originally posted by PCheese:
**(But MASCOT editor doesn't run native, so you still have to launch Classic for that it shouldn't be too much of a pain. Or at least its simplicity could make up for it.)

**

Ben continues to be strangely silent on the nativity issue, despite e-mails and prodding with sticks. Hrm.

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-- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged (6.20)

Quote

Originally posted by cat99:
**If I double-click on "Carbon Shell" it launches in OS X with an aqua interface. Does this mean it should run in X?

**

Yes. That's good. Now I have to keep it that way...

I also agree about there being too many buttons on the right side. What if we narrowed it down to this:

• Try out

• New Conversation...

• Clear Line... (would clear the line text, picture name & id, responses, conditionals, and actions of that line)

• Clear all... (same as above for all lines)

• Remove Conversation...

• Help
  Possibly these:

• Preferences...

• Pre-conv actions (if line 1 isn't pre-conv)

• Quit

(There were previously 12 buttons.)
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(This message has been edited by PCheese (edited 07-07-2002).)

I agree that there should be few buttons, and definitely not a clear all button. I am very eager to try this out, one more area that can now "code" less. As I said before, "Ho-Ra!"

Quote

Originally posted by PCheese:
**

(There were previously 12 buttons.)**

None of those buttons are necessary there. They just unnessicarily clutter the screen. I say stash 'em all in menus and take advantage of the space you save and make slightly bigger text boxes.

Here's afeature I just thought of: The text boxes should only accept characters up to the number where Ferazel starts cutting it off. I hate it when you have to completely redo a part of your conversation because you found out that a character takes up 2 conversation screens.

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Quote

Originally posted by cat99:
**None of those buttons are necessary there. They just unnessicarily clutter the screen. I say stash 'em all in menus and take advantage of the space you save and make slightly bigger text boxes.
**

They would have been in the menus anyway. I'll think about it :D. If you don't like my solution, you can always mess with it in ResEdit (and since the source code will be available through the GPL, you can change that too).

Quote

Originally posted by cat99:
**
Here's afeature I just thought of: The text boxes should only accept characters up to the number where Ferazel starts cutting it off. I hate it when you have to completely redo a part of your conversation because you found out that a character takes up 2 conversation screens.

**

I thought of that, but I'm not sure what the limit is. In any case, it varies because long words are puit on new lines and not cut off. But that's what the Try Out feature will be for (if I can get it to resemble the conversations in FW well enough). And no, I'm not going to make the characters fade in like in the game.

Also, in the MASCOT editor there are 18 lines, plus the pre-conv actions. But the code defines 20 lines. What does that mean? Maybe ACE/ICE/whatever we call it will be able to squeeze in an extra line I'll really know when I finish the code that reads and writes the data to and from a file and examine the results.

Oh, and aschaaf (if you're still around), can you tell me what compiler you used? CodeWarrior IDE 4.0.4 won't compile the source code. It doesn't like the SetControlData() and the file read/write functions.

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(This message has been edited by PCheese (edited 07-08-2002).)

Well I've gotten the code to compile after lots of changes, but unfortunately, according to a tester, the program no longer has an Aqua interface (which probably means it's been launched in Classic). My version of CodeWarrior was released before Mac OS X, so it might not be able to compile for OS X. Anyway, I'll keep working on it, and hopefully I'll find a patch or something similar for CodeWarrior.

By the way, I don't really know C/C++. I read a few books about it in the last two months, but this is the first real application I'm working on. So don't expect me to be speeding through this :). Anyway, if I can do it, I'm sure most of you can too, so just try to finda free compiler someplace and give it a whirl. However, I do have to admit knowing some languages and basic programming concepts beforehand really helps. Ah, never mind. I'm just rambling.

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Quote

Originally posted by PCheese:
Well I've gotten the code to compile after lots of changes, but unfortunately, according to a tester, the program no longer has an Aqua interface (which probably means it's been launched in Classic). My version of CodeWarrior was released before Mac OS X, so it might not be able to compile for OS X. Anyway, I'll keep working on it, and hopefully I'll find a patch or something similar for CodeWarrior.

When you get it finished, someone who has OS X may be able to use Project Builder, modify the code to make it Carbon-complient (sp?), and build it for OS X (only). There would be two versions of code, and two apps, but is is a solution.

------------------
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BTW, I like the name ICE

Quote

Originally posted by PCheese:
**Well I've gotten the code to compile after lots of changes, but unfortunately, according to a tester, the program no longer has an Aqua interface (which probably means it's been launched in Classic). My version of CodeWarrior was released before Mac OS X, so it might not be able to compile for OS X. Anyway, I'll keep working on it, and hopefully I'll find a patch or something similar for CodeWarrior.
**

I think you can get something from Apple's site, and Carbon apps will compile. I don't know what, though... :frown:

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Quote

Originally posted by aschaaf_86:
**BTW, I like the name ICE

I think you can get something from Apple's site, and Carbon apps will compile. I don't know what, though... :frown:

**

I'm looking, thanks.

By the way, the latest versions of what I'm working on should be available at (url="http://"http://pcheese.ferazel.net/ice/")http://pcheese.ferazel.net/ice/(/url) so take a look. The current download has two applications, one debug and one normal. Run the normal unless you think you know what you're doing. I haven't included the source code yet, and the apps actually do less than the one aschaaf uploaded.

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(This message has been edited by PCheese (edited 05-05-2003).)