We are a team producing a prole-playing game based on Coldstone it is called Thyroon. For this huge poroject we cant decide wich technique we will use, a pre rendered Background Pic. (like Baldurs Gate) who gives us besser lightning and better landscape changes, or do we use tilesets (like Pillars of Garendall) who saves more time, needs not so much communication and is more flexible?

Has anyone experience with both of them (or with the first), wich technique do you prefer and ist the first tecnique possible at all?

grEEz

benzofat

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The choice really should based on the size of the game's world and what distribution medium you're using. If it not all that huge and is going to come on CD, then pre-rendered backgrounds are probobly a fine idea. If it's of great epicosity and expected to be distributed online, then tiles are certainly your best choice. Just make lots of kinds/variations... so it dosen't get repetitive.

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#include <stdio.h>
main(void){char a(22) = {0x4a,0x75,0x73,0x74,' ',0x61,0x6e,0x6f,0x74,0x68,0x65,0x72,' ',0x43,' ',0x68,0x61,0x63,0x6b};int b;for (b = 0;b < 23;printf("%c",a(b)),b++){};printf("...n");}
/* Not just for perl. */

(This message has been edited by Bryce (edited 04-07-2003).)

both ways are possible, if you want to detail the hell out of the ground with nice personall effects and lights etc then use a giant picture, but unless your really gonna pour it on id use oversize tiles. right now i have tiles that are 500x500 so they wont look to repetitive on a 640x480 game.

and like bryce said theres always size. when i made my 1st maps the size was around 4 megs for one level at about 20x40in. now if you consider 20 levels just like it plus indoor levels plus animations plus cutscenes it came out around 130 megs which is okay but id rather have something a bit smaller to download. so i checked high quality tiles 500x500pixels big and that was under 100k. i wont get that level of personalization but overall it wont nearly even begin to make o-r break my game graphic wise. but for a rpg game where people might be hanging around a town or area for longer periods of time you might want to consider pulling out all the stops and going detail nuts. or maybe use tiles and use tons of doodads on top of them like cracks, plants flowers etc.

also how big are your characters going to be ingame? if they are smaller than pogs then giant maps will be bigger and take more time to traverse therefore giving you more life from your big maps and people will notice the areas more.

just ask yourself two questions.
which looks better to you? can you live with tiles or would giant maps set your rpg apart? if it wouldnt set your rpg apart from the 1st baulders gate, id just go tiles.

do you want the end user spending more than a hour downloading your game or waiting a week for it on cd or would you like them to get it in 30 minutes tops?

if you go cd then go all the way and fill that cd up. if not then cut down on graphics and build a streamlined game.

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Morvera ner Morden

Downloading EV:Nova was a major hassle for me, it took something like the better part of a day with my slow connection. (56k) It is only 70 megabytes.
Now, a lot of people probobly put up with this becuase it was probly the most (Rightfully) antcipated shareware game of all time. In the eyes of your prospective user, however, your game is unproven and unknown and probobly not worth eight hours of internet time if they don't have a dedicated phone line for their computer, no matter how well you hype it and how good it really is. The best idea is probobly to make a 'lite' version around 15 megs - a still long, but reasonible download for a modemer - that will convince the players that the full version is worth the download. Try to leave them at a point hanging and yearning for more of your game.

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#include <stdio.h>
main(void){char a(22) = {0x4a,0x75,0x73,0x74,' ',0x61,0x6e,0x6f,0x74,0x68,0x65,0x72,' ',0x43,' ',0x68,0x61,0x63,0x6b};int b;for (b = 0;b < 23;printf("%c",a(b)),b++){};printf("...n");}
/* Not just for perl. */

I'll be producing my game on (several) cds, so I am going with prerendered backgrounds.

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holy crap why several cd's? are you cranking your own baulders gate out of coldstone?

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Morvera ner Morden

(quote)Originally posted by Pedrith:
**I'll be producing my game on (several) cds, so I am going with prerendered backgrounds.

:eek:

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BOOM**

Well one note about lighting and prerendered...if you do the lighting that way you of course forfeit the ability to illuminate the player...

one segment of my game has a prerendered pic 924x 600 something, it doesn't scroll, and i've used pngs and placed them on several layers to convey lighting effects, that way th eplayer gets lit without having to set up events zones/hot spots.
in fact many of my segmeents mix the two to borrow from the best of both worlds, which is especially needed when you have abstract scenery combined with interactive environments.

the point is u should do like POG which actually used a mix of the two, its faster and more efficient and makes development lots faster for generic locations...

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• (url="http://"http://www.geocities.com/ellrx/index.html")eLL' softWare: Wood...Last Updated 03.31.03(/url)

• (url="http://"http://ellrx.web1000.com")eLL' Walker: 'ƒolio(/url)

• eLL' softWare: Plotting and scheming since 1996
  

... That staples it.

snip {holy crap why several cd's? are you cranking your own baulders gate out of coldstone?} Snip...

maybe... another update on the script will be forthcoming after Easter...

All my screens are going to be comprised of several 800X600 pics done in layers. I plan for the first small village to take up 12 screens (note this does not include the inside of the houses)

So far I have 20 (planed) large areas to explore with probably another 10 forthcoming (and these are just towns and towers and do not include the mountain level, forest level, Earth, or....) I've said to much...

Cheers
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(This message has been edited by Pedrith (edited 04-07-2003).)

What is the game about?

It is a fantasy adventure dealing with the Child of Magic, a sceptor of Darkness, what happens when one goes against the order of nature, the nazi and World War 2 (mostly in flashbacks) and...more forthcoming....

Pedrith

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Were planning about forty maps....holy ****!

I think that Tile maps (Teyre smaller than pre rendered Pics., right?) are the better choice, BUT with pre rendered Pics you have better shadwos, if you import a Tile with an alpha Map shadow it looks very "corny"! If we can make them finer (has anyne an Idea, or are only corny shadows pssible?) the problem would be solved, then I can renounce on lights because they arent dynamic in Coldstone so you can trick a bit, so it makesnt any difference between pre rendered and tiles! And tiles would also be faster, for us!

grEEz from Switzerland,

benzofat

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...corny?

I don't get it how could 8 bit transparency look corny?? 256 potential degrees of opacity at ur disposal and its corny!!!(use png instead of creating a mesh/checkered area in the pict format)

either way when you're doing the shadows and such, simply construct/draw/blend with the same care as you would the RGB image/layers...its called drawing in the negative mayne.

the maps in terms of RAM when loaded are smaller...

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• (url="http://"http://www.geocities.com/ellrx/index.html")eLL' softWare: Wood...Last Updated 03.31.03(/url)

• (url="http://"http://ellrx.web1000.com")eLL' Walker: 'ƒolio(/url)

• eLL' softWare: Plotting and scheming since 1996
  

... That staples it.

(This message has been edited by ellrx (edited 04-09-2003).)

one thing ive run into when makiing my tiles (thanx for pointing me to flaming pears tile filter!) is if you make the ground tiles very big, so far mine ar 500x500 then it is hard to see where they repeat because any part that repeats ends up already being off screen on a 640x480 game. so say you make tiles of dirt ground grass etc at 1000x1000 you would have a great non repetitive screen. then using pngs with transparency you can put all sorts of stuff on top that blends in. for stuff with shadows, id just make the building, then the shadow, and put the nicely done shadow layer under the house or even as part of the house.......

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Morvera ner Morden

The "world" of my game consists of 56 maps. That doesn't include caves, etc. I'm using Coldstone's tiles, plus my own. Building the world seems to be taking me quite a long time, but it's coming along. I hope to reduce the load time of all of my tiles, but I'm waiting until I've got them all in (and chosen). I've built tiles that transition from theirs, like from grass to desert sand. I'm going for the detail. I have different kinds of trees, for instance. But I think that the use of layers looks pretty good.

People who want it will be able to download it, but they'll also be able to get the CD.

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-- Debra
Danillitphil Productions