all that's left is to hope-no pray- that party members are allowed.
------------------
"Oh....Talia is it? What a....a pleasant surprise. I did not expect---"
"Neither did your guards--- judging by the look of shock pasted on their lifeless faces"
-
Quote
Originally posted by DarkBlade:
**and I want to spend MP to cast them.**
Thats what i meant.
------------------
They say it's mostly vanity that writes the plays we act--
They tell me thats what everybody knows.
There's no such thing as sanity, and thats the sanest fact--
Thats the way the story goes... -
if we are not allowed to add a party member feature to our games, or not given the feature or something then I think that MP will be the only way to go. The only way wizards could get anywhere in the beginnning of the game would be to hide behind allies and twiddle their thumbs after they've cast their precious 2 spells. Of course we could give them an exorbadantly(sp?) large amount of memorized spells..
------------------
"Oh....Talia is it? What a....a pleasant surprise. I did not expect---"
"Neither did your guards--- judging by the look of shock pasted on their lifeless faces" -
Quote
Originally posted by Lorenoth:
**The only way wizards could get anywhere in the beginnning of the game would be to hide behind allies and twiddle their thumbs after they've cast their precious 2 spells.
**Unless the starting wizards can actually fight. Given the way level progression usually works in CRPGs, a wizard that started out nearly as strong a fighter as a real warrior would, if his/her fighting abilities didn't really improve, quickly fall far behind in terms of physical power. So such a mage could easily be strong enough to survive past the first few levels. Of course, that seriously changes game balance, so you might have to tinker a bit to make it work out right. Maybe give the warriors a few spells to make up the difference. But then what we have is more of a non-class system where you start out with a bit of everything, and have to choose what abilities to focus on.
On a slightly different topic: I plan on, in my game, having all spells come from a common spell point pool representing ambient magic. (This pool would regenerate over time, and vary by location.) Thus, it would be a very viable tactic to just try to use up the pool so that your enemies couldn't use spells. Anybody have any thoughts on this?
------------------
(Insert Signature Here)
-
Woaw ! this topic is going to be 3 pages long !
Wyvern idea is quite a good one, but the risk in this kind of game is to want a all-around player, and to become so weak it's impossible to continue the game (If a player is trying to become good at magic, and good at strenght, he's going to get far away from a true warrior or a true magician, and he's gonna get so weak he'll surely loose).
About the D2 system, I agree with the fact it's not such a good one, since if we don't choose the good abilities, then it's teh same... We become too weak to continue (I remember a friend's necromancian who could have something like 10 squelettons (not sure of the spelling ;)) but couldn't cast any other spell, and so died...
Using the D2 system could be a good idea, but don't give it too much importance, it should just play a secondary role...
------------------
You don't have to be
affraid by drows...
Unless they want to kill
you... -
Quote
Originally posted by Dark Madman:
Wyvern idea is quite a good one, but the risk in this kind of game is to (...) become so weak it's impossible to continue the gameSince I plan on using battles as a source of XP, someone who wanted a balanced character might have to work a bit harder at it, but it would never present any problems that couldn't be solved by going off and leveling a bit.
Now if the amount of XP was limited, I'd certainly agree with you, and I'd probably fix it by adding some things that could only be done by a more balanced character. So a fighter could hit things, a wizard could cast nuke, but only somebody who kept the two balanced could ever use, say, a triple-fireball-dive-bomb-attack. Although I'd probably come up with something a little bit less silly for an actual game.
------------------
(Insert Signature Here)
-
Personally, I think that no particular system is better then any other, it depends hwo the system is integrated into the game. While it is true in general that a Memorization system is less powerful than an MP system, that doesn't have to be so. A game could have an MP system where mp is low, and recharges slowly, or a Memorization system which gives you a ludicriously high level of spells between rests.
Also there is the question of balance. One of the almost universal things of wizards is that they are very hard to play at first, and that a warrior makes a much easier character for a novice player. With either system though, a wizard will generally end up very very powerful later on in the game.
I would really like to see various systems of magic in the same game, each with different benefits and weaknesses. And most importantly, explinations. That is what I think really makes a magic system. I quite liked the D&D; Memorization system (the one that was also used in BG), because I thought the explination was sound and thought out (though for Priests moreso than mages). That is what I think the only real cretia in choosing a magic system to use in one's own game is, reasoning. How do your mages get their magic, and which system best (or least worstly) represents this? I know that realisticness is far from everything, and that it should be sacrificed if game play is in danger, but any system can be made to work well, so it is just a matter of playtesting till the system is balanced and works well.
------------------
"For Example: Sunny days make me happy, rainy days make me sad." "But you can have fun on a rainy day too." "Your truth can be changed simply by how you accept it." "That is how fragile truth is for a human being." -
Quote
Originally posted by chill_rx:
**Materia/Slot coupled with Blue/enemy .spell magic systems work the best . Also the inclusion of AP allowing spells to level up is a good solid magic system.
**FFVII IS KING...
...So Says The Chill!**
**
Um, actually FFVII was quite possibly the worst RPG of all time, if it can be called one. The only choices you can make in that game are your party members(to a limited extent) and whether you get Vincent and Yuffie. The plot was hilariously pathetic. It's just a big movie. All you have to do is press the little triangle button about 500,000 times and the game is done. If you think that ANY part of that game was challenging then you have no skill whatsoever at cheap Japanese RPGs.
And with the AP thing well I don't WANT to make another FFVII. "Most eagerly awaited game" HA. Well no praise for it afterwards was there? No. Didn't think so.
See I seem to recall noticing that Coldstone is for MAKING RPGs. Not "making movies". No one wants to see FFVII again. No one. The first time is the last for any sane person.
So my point is that be original.
I'm still waiting for a new type of spell system..... mana and memorize is all that we have so far.------------------
"Oh....Talia is it? What a....a pleasant surprise. I did not expect---"
"Neither did your guards--- judging by the look of shock pasted on their lifeless faces" -
mana points is definitely the best, but could be easily used with memorisation as in Diablo... this would be so nice....
but why not allowing the game designer to choose between both systems??? that would be the answer!
-
Quote
Originally posted by Lorenoth:
**
I'm still waiting for a new type of spell system..... mana and memorize is all that we have so far.
**Naaaah, There are plenty of other ways to cast spells than Mana and Memorize... Example : in FFVIII, you steal spells to the enemies, you stocks them, and you launch them when you want. If you don't steal, you can't cast ! In Chrono cross, you can allocate spells and chose their levels, but you can only launch each spell allocated once, etc. etc...
------------------
You don't have to be
affraid by drows...
Unless they want to kill
you... -
the stealing spell thing is just a special ability, not a type of spell. And doesn't it take mana? I hope we can make the games turnbased so I have time to select spells
------------------
"Oh....Talia is it? What a....a pleasant surprise. I did not expect---"
"Neither did your guards--- judging by the look of shock pasted on their lifeless faces" -
Noone has mentioned, imho, the best spell system of any rpg. It just happens to come from the best rpg out there. Of course I'm talking about ff6. The esper system. The way it works is this: you equip "espers," or magical spirits. Each esper represents a different kind of magic. Whoever has the esper equipped gradually, as they gain exp, learn the various spells that that particular esper has to offer. They may also summon the spirit of the esper once per battle. This is an extra powerful attack that consumes lots of mp. Any character can equip any esper, but they can only have one at a time. Also, different characters learn faster. Since it takes a lot of time to learn the spells, you end up having to make choices about which character will specialize in which type of magic. This leads to the ability to customize to your hearts desire.
Another thing about this game is that magic has almost nothing whatsoever to do with class. The different characters each have a unique ability, but they all learn magic the same way. They also can only use the types of weapons that their class specializes in.
And yes, I would have to go with mp.
-
While the FF6 system is marginally better than that of FF7 (since each character learns magic by spending time with the esper, rather than having the materia itself "learn" spells which are immediately and fully available to any random person who picks it up), it has similar problems. Under either of these systems, magic ceases to become "special." If any character can cast Ultima, summon Crusader or the Knights of the Round Table simply by equipping an Esper or socketing a materia, magic is just a tool. If anyone can easily learn to cast the most powerful spells in the game, there can be no such thing as an archmage.
Quote
Originally posted by ben1cohen:
...Another thing about this game is that magic has almost nothing whatsoever to do with class. The different characters each have a unique ability, but they all learn magic the same way. They also can only use the types of weapons that their class specializes in.Exactly my point. When anyone can cast magic, everyone becomes of necessity a warrior of some sort who happens to also have magical abilities and maybe a special attack or two. Be honest, did you mostly use Edgar, Gogo, and Sabin (powerful warriors with really good special attacks) or, say, Relm and Mog (weaker fighters whose special attacks were less generally useful)? I thought so. By contrast, Strago couldn't fight worth anything either, but because he had Lores (a special magic system that only he could use), he was still a very useful character. This is what magic (and other special skills, for that matter) should do for your characters - make a character who lacks in hand-to-hand skills a nonetheless useful character.
Maybe I should put it this way: If there were no Espers in the game, which characters would you use? I'll bet the answers to this would be more diverse than if I had asked "Which characters do you normally use in FF6?" With no Espers, suddenly the characters with magic or magic-like abilities of their own (Terra, Celes, Strago, Gau) suddenly become that much more useful. But what if you have only one space left in your party? Do you choose Strago for his magic, or Edgar for his combat skills? Suddenly you have to make decisions! Espers made the characters less diverse in their skills and uses, and so, in my opinion, made the game that much less open-ended.
------------------
“If a little knowledge is dangerous, where is the man who has so much as to be out of danger?” - T.H. Huxley(This message has been edited by Glenn (edited 02-05-2001).)
-
I have to agree. Materia made it too easy for anyone to be a good spell caster, even with its penalties. I just stuck all my good materia on Vincent because he was such a lousy fighter.
------------------
"Oh....Talia is it? What a....a pleasant surprise. I did not expect---"
"Neither did your guards--- judging by the look of shock pasted on their lifeless faces" -
FINAL FANTASY VII IS KING,
and that's how I see it,
there were numerousa challenges (and yes I've played all the other popular RPG's) but there was some thing to be had in 7 and I await the coming of X.However the basic idea behind 7 was merely a frame work to what I have in mind, MP is still the way to go.
and here's hoping that CGE doesn't turn out to be like all the other PC/Mac RPGS.
I hope it's kind of MYTH LIKe(with a long continuous plot, sans the missions)
------------------
Don't send me any mail... -
Which is why VII got half the votes of VI in a gamefaqs.com poll...
+29°
::sticks his hand in chill's face::Talk to the hand because Madman isn't listening...
...SO SAYS THE HAND!------------------
Madman 2000 tip of the day. (more tips) (stop showing tips)(This message has been edited by Madman (edited 02-09-2001).)
-
That quote is from Goldfinger. I know my James Bond movies. How about you. How deep is the water, not deep enough I'm afraid. For Your Eyes Only. Bring it on man. I'll beat the heck out of you. Knowing my James Bond.
------------------