I have a question (several, actually) -- when a publisher releases a game, do you feel that they owe you, the players of that game, updates to the game in perpeptuity?

How many updates do they owe you for the money you paid for the original game?

Do they owe you more than a bug-free version of the game as it was originally presented?

Do they owe you continual support/updates without you paying any more for this?

Do they owe you a sequel to the game, no matter how well the original did?

Do they owe you a sequel even if the original author of the game is not interested in doing that himself?

Do they owe it to you to release the source code to the game as open source?

Should a game developer/publisher ignore financial motivations (and thus possibly face bankruptcy or at least a weak business model resulting in less captial for the next project) in order to appease their customers in the above scenarios?

I'm curious where people think the line is drawn... what you expect to get for your money.

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Andrew Welch / el Presidente / Ambrosia Software, Inc.

When a publisher releases a game, do you feel that they owe you, the players of that game, updates to the game in perpeptuity?

Yes

How many updates do they owe you for the money you paid for the original game?

As many as are needed to make it bug free and user friendly.

Do they owe you more than a bug-free version of the game as it was originally presented?

Only if it serves the best interest of both the players and company, such as the case with Ares/Hera.

Do they owe you continual support/updates without you paying any more for this?

Yes. It is any software company's responsibility to make sure their products run smoothly by updating and troubleshooting. Frankly, I'm disappointed and a little worried as to why you asked this.

Do they owe you a sequel to the game, no matter how well the original did?

No. Only if the game was a hit and made a profit.

Do they owe you a sequel even if the original author of the game is not interested in doing that himself?

Again, only if the game was a success, and if there is someone else willing to produce one with coding experience, a decent plot, and permission from the original author and publisher.

Do they owe it to you to release the source code to the game as open source?
No. But I know people on this board will argue that.

Should a game developer/publisher ignore financial motivations (and thus possibly face bankruptcy or at least a weak business model resulting in less captial for the next project) in order to appease their customers in the above scenarios?

**Hmmm... I suppose you could cut back, or put on hiatus the next update/sequel until things improve, maybe scale back (but not eliminate) tech support and sales reps, but that's about all I can think of.

Hey, um Ambrosia isn't in some kind of financial trouble is it?**

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Throughout their history these "unenlightened" beings have continually opposed and fought abuses of power wrought by their own bretheren. We, as the prophets would do well to learn from these Humans.
-Final statement of the Salrilian reformist Sirthis shortly before his execution.

Knock off the sarcasm Moose, it was a valid question.

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Throughout their history these "unenlightened" beings have continually opposed and fought abuses of power wrought by their own bretheren. We, as the prophets would do well to learn from these Humans.
-Final statement of the Salrilian reformist Sirthis shortly before his execution.

Quote

Originally posted by andrew:
**I have a question (several, actually) -- when a publisher releases a game, do you feel that they owe you, the players of that game, updates to the game in perpeptuity?

1. How many updates do they owe you for the money you paid for the original game?

2. Do they owe you more than a bug-free version of the game as it was originally presented?

3. Do they owe you continual support/updates without you paying any more for this?

4. Do they owe you a sequel to the game, no matter how well the original did?

5. Do they owe you a sequel even if the original author of the game is not interested in doing that himself?

6. Do they owe it to you to release the source code to the game as open source?

7. Should a game developer/publisher ignore financial motivations (and thus possibly face bankruptcy or at least a weak business model resulting in less captial for the next project) in order to appease their customers in the above scenarios?

I'm curious where people think the line is drawn... what you expect to get for your money.
**

1. An exact number? That's a little tricky. Enough to fix any bugs and add whatever features people want which can be reasonably implimented. If I get 100,000 updates and vicious bugs spotted in the initial release are still there, I'll feel cheated. If I get 2 and there are major improvements to the game, I'm happy.

2.Hmmm. I don't think that any massive overhauls of the game are in order, unless the writers/publishers of the game want to do them and it's feasable. Ares/Hera seems ideal; it's in everyone's best interest since more people will register if the reply value suddenly becomes unlimited, and the community would be well served by an editor.

3. It's up to them. But if I payed more than 30$ for a game, I expect something more than "here you go, we'll update if we feel like it."

4. No matter how well the original did? If it bombed (like Avara seems to have,) then no. If it wasn't worth while, don't flog a dead horse, put your resources into something worthwhile which could be better and not have the stigma of the first flop associated with it. If you have a very modular game with a flexible engine such as EV (or Ares, soon) then I think that rather than sequels, some company produced plug ins would be fairly quick to make when compared with a sequel.

5. No.

6. If it furthers developement and the company doesn't want to work on the game anymore, than sure, let the community take over. BUt I don't think it's "owed" to us.

7. No. Absolutely not. If you have a flop of a game, then try and start something new unless improving it is worthwhile.

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We woke up one morning and fell a little further down, for sure this is the valley of death.
I open up my wallet, and it is full of blood.
-Godspeed you Black Emporer!, Dead flag blues

The company owes the gaming community one thing: A bugfree and complete product.

This product should have all the features it is marketed to have, and should be stable and easy to deal with.

No more than this is required. Updates which add new features are nice, but not required. Technical support is a must, of course. Updating a released product, other than bug fixes, poses problems. Significant updates (like Ares 1.0.0 to Ares 1.1.0) should come at a nominal fee, and so the company should think carefully before working on them.

Sometimes, an engine overhaul and full game shift (EV to EVO) is the best way to add new features while still keeping everyone happy.

Just my two cents.

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Sundered Angel ,
The One and Only

Ares Webboard Moderator, and all-around Nice Guy

Let it be noted that Avara was by no means a flop... I played Avara all the time about 3 years ago, it was very active back then. Things have moved on, that's all... when people can play UT Avara's graphics look a basic =). I'd be very interested in an Avara II with enhanced graphics/weapons though... I'm sure others would as well. The top game I'd like from Ambrosia would be a perpetual world online version of EV... drools all over keyboard.

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Stop it damn you! Now I'm drooling on the keyboard and, and - and...

...then I just remember it can't be done.

WHAHAHAHA! Never in a million years.

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"A person needs change. Without change something within us sleeps and seldom awakens. The sleeper must awaken." -Duke Leto Atreides (Dune)

thats what you think.......................(and now you can wait in suspense for the next three years )

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"Learn about art captian,
when you understand a
species' art you
understand that species"
Grand Admiral Thrawn
at the fist battle of his
campaig

I have a question (several, actually) -- when a publisher releases a game, do you feel that they owe you, the players of that game, updates to the game in perpeptuity?
Well... not forever, but at least untill the game is runninng smoothly

How many updates do they owe you for the money you paid for the original game?
Untill the game is optimized. By optimized, I mean that the features that the public want are implemented, and there are very few bugs.

Do they owe you more than a bug-free version of the game as it was originally presented?
Well, I would hope that there are no bugs in the first version! But if there are bugs, then the company should release updates to get rid of the bugs

Do they owe you continual support/updates without you paying any more for this?
The support: No, it should be free. The updates: It depends. If the update is a patch replacing a bug, then yes. If it adds a new feture, then yes. If it changes the plot, or changes the look and feel, or changes the gameplay (such as Aftershock for Avara), then yes.

Do they owe you a sequel to the game, no matter how well the original did?
No. They owe me a sequel if the first game did well, there is a demand for a sequel, and a sequel would fit into the plotline.

Do they owe you a sequel even if the original author of the game is not interested in doing that himself?
I do not care if the origional author of the game makes the game or not. Of course, a different author would result in different gameplay, and a different look and feel, but as long as the resulting game is fun to play, and somehow ties into the plot of the origional game, I am happy.

Do they owe it to you to release the source code to the game as open source?
Not really. Why do I need to look into the inner workings of the game?

Should a game developer/publisher ignore financial motivations (and thus possibly face bankruptcy or at least a weak business model resulting in less captial for the next project) in order to appease their customers in the above scenarios?
If the company were to go bankrupt by producing the aforementioned nicities, then no. If the company is bankrupt, then they can not give tech support, sequels, and, most of all, they can not make furrther cool games. If the company would make marginally smaller profits in order to support a tech support staff, then yes. But by no means should any company sacrafice any future games (or their funding) to give tech support, patches, updates, upgrades, etc.

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Now we can all rejoice because Hera is here!

So mr. Ambrose, what are your views on bringing old pets back from the dead?

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"A person needs change. Without change something within us sleeps and seldom awakens. The sleeper must awaken." -Duke Leto Atreides (Dune)

Speak for your self, Commander, or shoul dI just call you "Ambrosa M"?

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"...Cotton Mouse... to say that the plug is royally messed up is an understatement. I'm taking a look at it with Plug Checker, and some of these errors I have just never seen before..."-Obormot, debugger

ERA for EV:
www.geocities.com/rhysmctharin/erahome.html

(still in alpha stages)

How many updates do they owe you for the money you paid for the original game?

Enough to make me happy.

Do they owe you more than a bug-free version of the game as it was originally presented?

If they feel like it and we want it.

Do they owe you continual support/updates without you paying any more for this?

Ya. I would hope so. What's the point in buying a game over and over and over again each time it's updated?

Do they owe you a sequel to the game, no matter how well the original did?

No. Only if we want/need it and they're willing to.

Do they owe you a sequel even if the original author of the game is not interested in doing that himself?

Only if someone else will do it, the origional game didn't flop, the guy who will do it will do it decently, and the guy who origionally made it oks it.

Do they owe it to you to release the source code to the game as open source?

That one's up to them to decide.

Should a game developer/publisher ignore financial motivations (and thus possibly face bankruptcy or at least a weak business model resulting in less captial for the next project) in order to appease their customers in the above scenarios?

No. If a company goes kaput, how are they expected to do more for their customers? (except in the case of Microsoft, in which case it would be very nice if the company went kaput)

Thars my answers.

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"I can ail what cures you."

1. Until no more updates are needed or nobody would download it if it was needed.

2. I expect an editor of some sort and, if multiplayer is possible, a well-controlled and administrated gamefinder.

3. Yes.

4. No.

5. No.

6. In the unlikely scenario that a game has a large following but an impoverished publisher, no, they can skip it.

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Replicant
www.axis.n3.net

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I have a question (several, actually) -- when a publisher releases a game, do you feel that they owe you, the players of that game, updates to the game in perpeptuity?

A software developer does not owe its customers anything beyond the product that they sold, neither morally nor legally.

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How many updates do they owe you for the money you paid for the original game?

To maintain a loyal customer base, a software developer should always be willing to post free patches to software bugs until all significant bugs are eliminated.

Quote

Do they owe you more than a bug-free version of the game as it was originally presented?

As I said before: You, Mr. Welch, owe us nothing. We are grateful for what you have given us.

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Do they owe you continual support/updates without you paying any more for this?

To a limited extent, yes - this would be a luxury we would appreciate, though many other software vendors would not be so kind.

Quote

Do they owe you a sequel to the game, no matter how well the original did?

No. The decision to create a game sequel should be determined by the original game's popularity and the desire for the author to make that sequel.

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Do they owe you a sequel even if the original author of the game is not interested in doing that himself?

Would we like to see an Ares 2? Yes.
Does Nathan Lamont owe it to us? No.

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Do they owe it to you to release the source code to the game as open source?

Releasing the source code is a business decision, not a moral obligation.

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Should a game developer/publisher ignore financial motivations (and thus possibly face bankruptcy or at least a weak business model resulting in less captial for the next project) in order to appease their customers in the above scenarios?

A good software business should have the following priorities:
#1: Have fun
#2: Make a good product
#3: Make money

If you've made a good, quality product, then you should have no qualms with making money off it. Listening to your customers is only part of making money, though an essential one. In short, no, do not ignore financial motivations, but don't forget to listen to what your heart tells you - don't lose sight of the Ambrosia dream.

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I'm curious where people think the line is drawn... what you expect to get for your money.

A good game and the hope that there will be more where it came from.

I hear from either Cicion or Sargatanus (or both) that N.Lamont is working on another game that takes place in the Ares universe.

In general, I agree with Sargatanus.

However, while I'm here, I have a suggestion for Ambrosia in general, and Ares in particular. I personally got very annoyed when I went to play Ares over the home network and found that I couldn't, not even to test my new levels, because I only have one serial number. :frown: This was very annoying as I was given a Network Serial Number in my Changeling version of the game and I could have two copies of that, and play network. (The second number would only allow me to play over the network)

So, I suggest that you supply Net serial codes at a price of $5 or something similar, just to satisfy those of us who don't WANT to pay another $25 for a copy of the game. (And those of us who only paid $10 and don't want to pay $25 at all)

LISTEN TO ME! I BOUGHT EV, EVO, Mars Rising, Ares, and I intend to buy Deimos Rising and EV3!

Sorry about the outburst. I'm getting carried away.

Whether you listen or not, thanks.

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*** Lightning never strikes the same place twice. But on occasions...eight times... ***

See this is his last reply(Replicant)

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ITS HERE ARES WEBBOARD ONE HOTLINE(for more detales go to the topic called its here and read it)!
(if this Sarilian Carriers a-rocken dont come a-knoking)
(1-2-3-the devels after me-4-5-6-hes always throwing sticks-7-8-9-he misses every time)
(Devels Shack)
E |/| I || E |/

Please don't go digging up stale topics.

Should I delete this topic then?

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I do not suffer from insanity
I enjoy every minute of it

-Cantharan Commodore za'Grom
After the capture of Earth

Andrew might want to keep it for a reference...

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"I can ail what cures you."