I'm approving because mrxak wrote a long lengthy post and that makes me feel confident.

I've been quiet because I've been busy again (traveling to a family reunion) and also because I have become pretty confused. This proposal doesn't have JacaByte or Techarek (###### spelling that right) on it, and they're who I'm most suspicious of at the moment. I'm also still totally in the dark about croc. Anyway, I'm approving this one, so lets see what happens.

@retep998, on 14 August 2012 - 02:14 PM, said in GTW 40:

I'm approving because mrxak wrote a long lengthy post and that makes me feel confident.

So it's not because you're on the mission, and it's definitely not because you're a traitor, is that right?

OK, so I think mrxak was a bit pretentious with that last post, but I'm also sure that two of the traitors are not on his proposal. Tcherak is one, and either Darth or Jaca is one of the others.

Therefore, I feel reasonably comfortable in ACCEPTing the proposition.

@soitbegins, on 15 August 2012 - 01:19 AM, said in GTW 40:

Therefore, I feel reasonably comfortable in ACCEPTing the proposition.

Reasonably comfortable? This is just a watered-down version of what we recently crucified Jaca for. Does that mean SIB and Jaca are the traitors?

It would truly be unfortunate if SIB and retep were traitors, as that would mean that the civs have already missed their chance to win this round.

And speaking of Jaca, I'm beginning to empathize with his stated desire for the game to end in order to rub people's faces in his innocence, so to speak. Whether or not the emotion is genuine on his end, I'm certainly feeling it…ya clowns.

Man, you people get so emo about this.

The endgame here isn't that everyone is suddenly happy and satisfied, the endgame is that we play another cutthroat game and get pissed at each other. Forever. Except, some of us don't get pissed off by a game :p. Even if games are war.

I wish I was playing this game with 7 clones of myself. It would be pointless and masturbatory, but at least nobody would be crying about hurt feelings.

@techerakh, on 15 August 2012 - 06:21 AM, said in GTW 40:

Reasonably comfortable? This is just a watered-down version of what we recently crucified Jaca for. Does that mean SIB and Jaca are the traitors?

The only way I could be perfectly comfortable is if I had a crystal ball or something. At the moment, I have to make do with hunches and incomplete information.

mrxak said:

The endgame here isn't that everyone is suddenly happy and satisfied, the endgame is that we play another cutthroat game and get pissed at each other. Forever. Except, some of us don't get pissed off by a game :p. Even if games are war.

Next game I host is going to be set in Candyland.

So apparently it's just Techerakh that's holding up the game.

@soitbegins, on 15 August 2012 - 01:15 PM, said in GTW 40:

The only way I could be perfectly comfortable is if I had a crystal ball or something. At the moment, I have to make do with hunches and incomplete information.

Actually, you do have complete information; that's the point. Like Jaca, you're either a traitor or incompetent (or both).
For the umpteenth time, since there was at most one traitor NOT on the round 3 mission, and since all four of the people NOT on the round 3 mission (I made up a cutesy name for them but maybe some of the mouthbreathers in this game found that difficult to follow) are on THIS mission, the ONLY way there could POSSIBLY be TWO traitors (i.e., a critical mass thereof) on THIS mission would be if YOU were a traitor.

But anyway whatever.

@mrxak, on 15 August 2012 - 03:46 PM, said in GTW 40:

So apparently it's just Techerakh that's holding up the game.

Yeah, I was hoping that Jaca was gonna post something (anything!) about this proposal, but it doesn't look like he will. So I'll submit my vote to Mack as soon as I finish writing this post.

But first, writing this post:

I know that two of SIB, Jaca, and darth are traitors. If SIB is innocent, then Jaca and darth are traitors. If Jaca and darth are traitors, then this mission has only one traitor on it, and thus by approving this mission the civs would win the game. As such, the traitors should be trying to prevent this mission from going through however possible. darth is (apparently) blithely approving this mission. (Jaca is, unfortunately, an unknown.) Since darth is happy about this mission, then either darth is a civ or this mission has two traitors on it. In either case, SIB is therefore a traitor.

QED – voting no on this proposal

Can't wait to read the hate from people who didn't read past the first sentence.

SEACREST OUT

Mission #4 Subcommittee by mrxak
croc
Crow T. Robot
mrxak
retep998
SoItBegins

Approve
8.14.2012
Crow T. Robot -- 6:16
mrxak -- 6:41
retep998 -- 12:33
darth_vader -- 14:22

8.15.2012
SoItBegins -- 1:20

Reject
8.14.2012
JacaByte -- 9:29
croc -- 11:29

8.15.2012
Techerakh -- 17:36

Results:
Five approvals, three rejections. The motion passes.

The committee proposal consisting of croc, Crow T. Robot, mrxak, retep998, and SoItBegins has been approved and will now carry out the fourth mission. Those five people need to PM me as soon as possible, indicating whether they will help the mission SUCCEED or FAIL. When I have received all five PMs I will inform you of the mission's result, and then it will be SoItBegins's turn to propose a committee.

I did not expect to see Jaca voting no on this. It doesn't clear him, though, as this mission seemed pretty sure to be approved, and the traitors will need at least one person with plausible deniability next round, once SIB's guilt is 100% confirmed.

Well, it got the bare minimum to pass. That's what we'd expect from a proposal that had only one bad guy on it. I feel the need to point out that one of the people who voted against it was one of the four who didn't double-fail the last mission. Again, that's what we'd expect if this was in fact a winning mission. I am tentatively hopeful that the three rejects were from bad guys, and this game will be over soon.

If that's not the case, then those three rejects are very likely to be innocent, we'll know that SoItBegins is a bad guy, and probably darth_vader is too since JacaByte and Techerakh voted against this. Then it's just a matter of figuring out who the last two good guys are. I'm too tired right now to think about how easy or hard that will be, but I'll put in my succeed vote, go to sleep, and hopefully find out we won in the morning.

@mrxak, on 15 August 2012 - 08:04 PM, said in GTW 40:

Well, it got the bare minimum to pass. That's what we'd expect from a proposal that had only one bad guy on it. I feel the need to point out that one of the people who voted against it was one of the four who didn't double-fail the last mission. Again, that's what we'd expect if this was in fact a winning mission. I am tentatively hopeful that the three rejects were from bad guys, and this game will be over soon.

I'd expect a proposal with only one bad guy on it to fail, since the civs are too mixed up to come to a consensus, and the traitors would act in concert. The very fact that this didn't fail is sufficient evidence to me that the game will continue. Of the three rejecters, only Jaca is even plausibly a traitor, so, no, unfortunately we have not won.

@mrxak, on 15 August 2012 - 08:04 PM, said in GTW 40:

If that's not the case, then those three rejects are very likely to be innocent, we'll know that SoItBegins is a bad guy, and probably darth_vader is too since JacaByte and Techerakh voted against this. Then it's just a matter of figuring out who the last two good guys are.

This is more or less spot on. I'm glad you're back to posting actual analyses; I was wondering what had happened to you.

In the interest of moving this game along I am preemptively voting against SIB's upcoming proposal (assuming there is one) and recommend everyone else do the same.

In before but wait let's hear him out

@mrxak, on 15 August 2012 - 07:42 AM, said in GTW 40:

I wish I was (garbled) with 7 clones of myself.

Uh-huh.

@techerakh, on 15 August 2012 - 08:50 PM, said in GTW 40:

I'd expect a proposal with only one bad guy on it to fail, since the civs are too mixed up to come to a consensus, and the traitors would act in concert. The very fact that this didn't fail is sufficient evidence to me that the game will continue. Of the three rejecters, only Jaca is even plausibly a traitor, so, no, unfortunately we have not won.

I'm simply saying that if there is any scenario in which we win this game now in the fourth round, the votes would look exactly as they do for this one. Three votes against (more and it doesn't pass, less and it's sure to have bad guy support), and the votes against are from a single person not on the last mission, plus two who were. That matches up with what we know about the number and distribution of the bad guys. Can the same sort of votes also happen with a mission with two bad guys on it? Sure. But based on these votes, there is at least reason to be hopeful. For example, had all of the MTPs voted in favor of this mission, it would surely fail. But croc voted against.

If you voted against the mission, and are innocent, either one of the bad guys really blew it, or you know this mission will fail and we'll find out soon enough.

@darth_vader, on 16 August 2012 - 01:24 AM, said in GTW 40:

Uh-huh.

I've never understood people's fascinations with having sex with their clones/duplicates, yet it seems to be a popular idea. It comes up every time self-cloning is talked about on the internet (case in point, the recent Slashdot poll on cloning). It would just be gay sex with somebody who looks like you. Why does that appeal to otherwise straight people? Does the cloning process suddenly make you super attracted to yourself that you would suddenly want to jack off another man's dick (or your clone to you)? I would rather have sex with 7 clones of some attractive female, not some big bearded man.

I think we should stop everything and discuss this self-clone fetish. Do you masturbate because you like touching penises, or do you masturbate because your penis likes being touched?

Mission #4 (Failure)
Mohammed Al-Dosary
Succeed: 3
Fail: 2

Al-Dosary was reported by a source in Saudi Arabi to be traveling to Tegel International Airport in Berlin, Germany on a Saudi Airlines 767. Apprised of this, GSG-9 commandos boarded the plane and checked everyone on board against a profile forwarded by the Saudi government. Their search came up empty -- a week later an internal investigation by the Saudis discovered a mole in their government in the security section. His information had led to several false arrests and allowed prime suspects to slip through national borders. His last gasp was to allow Al-Dosary to escape from Saudi Arabia without a trace.

SoItBegins, you may now submit five names (which may include your own name) in a motion to form a subcommittee to carry out the second mission. Should your motion fail, retep998 will have the opportunity to submit four different names for consideration, and so on, until a motion passes. Should five motions fail in a row, the Security Council will be deadlocked, and the terrorists will detonate nuclear bombs in several world capitals.

Mission Profile #5
Ahmad Sukarno
Ahmad Sukarno is an infamous Indonesian terrorist responsible for the deaths of thousands of people in East Timor and other parts of southeast Asia. He was last spotted in Singapore, where the police and counterterrorist units are working to apprehend him and bring him to justice. He is the last of five major targets. Should he be taken alive or killed in the operation to capture him, the diplomats will have won. Should he escape, the terrorists will have won.

Once SoItBegins puts forth five names, Security Council members should begin sending me votes to approve or reject the proposed subcommittee, via personal message. As always, public or private discussion at any time is welcome between members. You may publicly offer support or condemnation for the proposed subcommittee (either truthful or not), but only your private vote will be counted when all votes are in. You may PM me a second time (or more) to change your official vote. Once I receive 8 votes, I will announce the results. If I do not receive all 8 votes in a timely manner, I may choose to end the vote early if there are enough votes for a majority either in favor or against the proposed subcommittee. Please vote quickly once a set of names are proposed.

Quiet, Mackilroy, we're talking about cloned penises.

Obviously SoItBegins will propose a set of names designed to confuse us, and it's best we don't let ourselves be fooled when we rejected it.

I gave SIB far too little credit.

Okay, let's reason this out here. There were two fail votes on Mission 3, and two on Mission 4. Since I was the only person on both missions, and there are only three traitors, I must be a traitor.

Since I'm a traitor, I obviously won't include myself on the list. In addition, because I'm a traitor, it's a decently good guess that what I said before about Techerakh being a traitor was probably a lie, so he'll go on the list.

That leaves these choices for the remaining people:

darth_vader
JacaByte
(one of these two is probably a traitor)

croc
Crow T. Robot
mrxak
retep998
(one of these four is a traitor).

Of Darth and Jaca, Techerak mentioned that Jaca was possibly a traitor despite rejecting the mission. I'll follow his advice and take darth_vader. So, the remaining traitor is probably not croc, so he'll go on on the list.
Retep998 might be a traitor but he probably isn't. He just wants to go on every mission he can. So I'll let him go on this one and see what happens.
Now it's down to Crow T. Robot or mrxak.
In honor of my original early-game "suspicion" of mrxak, I'll leave him from the list now. (Tip to mrxak: When you go all McCarthy in the beginning of the game, it's easy to just point at you and say, 'ooh, he crazy!')

So, my proposal stands at:

Techerakh
croc
darth_vader
Crow. T Robot
retep998

Any takers? :hector_bird: