Indeed, very strange 
As for the crons not running all the time, there is a 0-0-0 bug which Matt supposedly said will never be fixed. I think what happens is if you set the pre-holdoff, duration, and post-holdoff all to 0 then the OnStart will actually only run every other day. The OnEnd runs every day though, so you should move anything in the OnStart to the OnEnd.
Guy, on Nov 6 2005, 07:46 PM, said:
Indeed, very strange
As for the crons not running all the time, there is a 0-0-0 bug which Matt supposedly said will never be fixed. I think what happens is if you set the pre-holdoff, duration, and post-holdoff all to 0 then the OnStart will actually only run every other day. The OnEnd runs every day though, so you should move anything in the OnStart to the OnEnd.
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In the Nova Tools template there is a thing that says if it's 0-0-0 then the onEnd will run twice. Is this in error?
Could I also keep the stuff in onStart and set the duration to 1? (I might have to make it iterative if I do that to accomidate the player taking off and landing on subsequent days.)
Also, I made a few updates in my above post. It's gotten stranger.
Desprez, on Nov 6 2005, 08:12 PM, said:
In the Nova Tools template there is a thing that says if it's 0-0-0 then the onEnd will run twice. Is this in error?
Could I also keep the stuff in onStart and set the duration to 1? (I might have to make it iterative if I do that to accomidate the player taking off and landing on subsequent days.)
Also, I made a few updates in my above post. It's gotten stranger.
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Actually, I just tested. onEnd does indeed run twice.
Edit: Ok, now sometimes it runs twice, somethines it runs once. Arrg.
This post has been edited by Desprez : 06 November 2005 - 03:33 PM
Ok, it's fixed.
I'm using a kill all ships mission with a dying dude to delete the items in the onShipDone field.
This seems to work every time now.
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On a side note, this whole bay technique could also be used to house other equipment for your ship. Like extra ammo and weapons that are in storage. You can't use them untill you bring them out of your cargo hold, but you could take them with you.
It would probably be easier to impliment than this fighter bay version.
Plus, I think I can impliment a thing where you can replenish missiles and such in flight. But it takes some time for your crew to move them from storage.
Ok, here is a re-vamped version of the fighter bay.
This time I archived it with Guy's Plug-in Archiver as suggested by Edwards.
How it works has been changed around quite a bit. I got rid of the hiding/showing outfits. And the buy and sell mechanic is different.
Require bit resource usage is much improved, outfit usage is slightly improved, and there are more options to talor to your particular story/universe/mechanics.
All for only a slight increase in the complexity of buying/selling the outfits. It's not bad once you get used to it, but I could see how it might be confusing if you're presented with it for the first time.
I also added a few bay upgrades to demonstrate some prerequisite items.
You can build a kamikaze drone buy purchasing a "Remote Fighter Control Deck" and if you have a nuke to put on-board the fighter.
You can make cloaking fighters if you have a "Fighter Cloaking Operations Center"
And if you have an "Advanced Electronics Section" you gain the ability to combine a two fighters into a larger super fighter.
I attempted to make the reload-while-in-flight a reality, but it needs some work yet. I put it in there as-is just for kicks.
Edit: Link removed. It was a broken version.
Here is a direct link to the latest version, see this post for context.
Fighter Loadouts v3.2 (581 KB)
This post has been edited by Desprez : 29 August 2006 - 06:56 PM
Guy, on Nov 7 2005, 09:12 PM, said:
Very cool. Just a few problems I had:
Once, I couldn't swap my raven for a bomber without taking off and landing again.
Raven combined won't show up as a secondary weapon.
Once, I saw a Javelin stuck on the screen.
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Really? Hmmm. It's working over here. What kind of system/version specs are you using?
Can you tell me what steps to take to recreate the problems?
The only tricky thing I can thing of that might cause problems, is where launchers are secretly added when you enter the outtfitter, then deleted upon taking off.
The only other time I had a problem was where I captured a Puma variant that I didn't have, and it became an escort that I couldn't dock. But when I went to the outfitter, I couldn't swap to that version for some reason, nor could I clear puma bays, because I had one in orbit. I had to get it killed before stuff worked again.
Hm, no don't know how to make the bomber not available again. I can't get the Combined to show up no matter what I do though. And I have no idea why the Javelin appeared - it was dead but the sprite was stuck on screen.
Oh, and I'm on 10.4.3 if it helps.
This post has been edited by Guy : 07 November 2005 - 04:56 PM
Guy, on Nov 7 2005, 09:52 PM, said:
Hm, no don't know how to make the bomber not available again. I can't get the Combined to show up no matter what I do though. And I have no idea why the Javelin appeared - it was dead but the sprite was stuck on screen.
Oh, and I'm on 10.4.3 if it helps.
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Well... darn. I guess I'll probably have to wait and see if someone else has the same problem.
I'm going to assume that you already tried recreating a new pilot to test.
Is the combined just not showing at all in the outfitter? or just not selectable in space?
I just tried getting the combined fighter using just the minimum necessary, and also when having every other fighter available. Both seemed to work here.
Never mind about the combined, I figured out what was wrong :rolleyes:
I did manage to recreate not being able to buy a bomber though. Try buying some ravens, getting one killed, cleaning out your raven bays, buying some again, and then try and buy a bomber.
(EDIT) Okay, here's what I suggest. (I haven't thought this out much, it's just an outline. don't know if it can actually work or not)
Make the "Clear x Bay" outfit available when you have one or more of "Total x" and none of the variants (except default). When you buy it it runs the cron to temporarily remove all docked fighters. It then checks for any in orbit and if there are any it gives some message like "You must recall all your fighters before you can do this". Otherwise, it removes any remaining fighter-less bays. Finally it returns the fighters it removed at the start so you're back to normal but with no empty bays. Makes things simpler for the player as he doesn't have to sell up just to be able to regain the space of an empty bay.
Or maybe, instead of removing the empty bay it adds a replacement fighter for it.
This post has been edited by Guy : 08 November 2005 - 04:01 AM
Ick. I know what's going on.
The clear bays mechanic is incompatible with the trick of temporarly adding bays so the player can buy variants.
The reason that the Pumas were unaffected, is because the sell Puma bays was broken. It was removing the combined raven bay (which might be why you couldn't use the combined raven, the launcher was gone.) I suspect that the vipers would be affected as well, it's just that you'd notice less often if you didn't always have a nuke, and remote control deck.
This won't be easy to fix.
What you suggest in your last post is exactly what I thought you were getting at before, and the idea has a lot of merit. However, I've been having difficulty getting crons to run consistantly, and that could well be an issue here.
But, I suppose I'll have to give it a shot now.
BTW, I really appreciate all the help you've given me so far.
This post has been edited by Desprez : 08 November 2005 - 05:13 AM
Well! I didn't think I'd be able to do it, but it works!!!
The crons had previously given me a lot of trouble, not running when they should, the 0-0-0 bug, etc.
There might be an easier way to do it, but this is what I came up with:
First, you can't use the Clear Bays unless all your fighters are converted to the default config. (This allows me to set up only one placeholder and cron set per group, not every variant)
Revmove the extra bays placed upon entering outfitter. (allows you to purchase a fighter you don't yet have a bay for.)
Iterative cron that converts all docked fighters to a placeholder outfit. - Sets bit to run 2
2a) cron that runs if there are still fighters detected via Oxxx (in orbit) - Sets a bit to run 3
2b) cron that runs if there are no fighters still detected via Oxxx - Sets bit to run 4
Iterative cron that converts the placeholders back to fighters. Runs a mission telling you to dock fighters first. Replaces extra bays removed in step 0, sets no more bits effectively exiting the sequence.
Iterative cron that removes a bay, removes a total group count, removes a total bay count. - Sets bit to run 5
Iterative cron that converts a placeholder back to a fighter and places a bay, group count, bay count.
Replaces extra bays remove in step 0
This look about right?
All I have to do is incorporate the test into into the main plug.
This post has been edited by Desprez : 08 November 2005 - 05:49 PM
Ok, thanks to some analyzing of cron behavior done in another thread, I REALLY have the "check for fighters and clear empty bays" working this time. I though it was working, but it really wasn't 
The final result it a little simpler than the previous post laid out, (less NCBs and only one 1 extra placeholder outfit.)
So, here is Fighter Loadouts v3. Aside from some minor bugs that are likely to be in there, it's probably inevatible, I think everything fighter bay related works. Plus, you get yet another bonus weapon.
I guess the basic question is, is this whole thing just way too complex? Maybe it depends on whether or not your plug will benefit from thins functionality, but it's mapped out here if you want to use it.
So, a brief overview for anyone just joinging this thread. This plug demonstrates:
This was concieved so that you would still be only able to buy certian fighters at select worlds, but you could still change the configuration of fighters already in your bay at any planet/station that has an outfitter. Maybe in the future, you'll be able to do it in flight.
There is at least one potential problem that I know of. If you gain an escort that is of a fighter type that you have, and you don't have room to dock it. You won't be able to clear out empty bays of that fighter group untill you can dock it, or get rid of it. It is easy enough to add a function to buy space for a fighter WITHOUT purchasing the fighter itself (making room for the escort) but this seemed like a restricted case not really worth the extra resources. If you think otherwise, let me know.
Also, let me know of any other problems you have. And what you think in general. And if it's something you can use, great!
This plug is for use with the basic Nova install.
Fighter Loadouts v3.2 (581 KB)
Edit: Oops, I fixed some of the descriptions. Also, I added a few other spobs to show different tech levels.
Edit: Updated for EVN 1.0.9
This post has been edited by Desprez : 12 March 2006 - 07:05 PM
This is very cool. Good to see the clearing bays is easier for the player now. Though maybe it would be better if instead of removing the empty bay it added a fighter to fill it? After all, if you've just lost a fighter, chances are you'll be wanting to replace it.
Oh, and remember to be careful when making ships that come standard with fighters. You'll have to include default outfits for all that other stuff too.
Guy, on Nov 12 2005, 08:52 PM, said:
This is very cool. Good to see the clearing bays is easier for the player now. Though maybe it would be better if instead of removing the empty bay it added a fighter to fill it? After all, if you've just lost a fighter, chances are you'll be wanting to replace it.
Oh, and remember to be careful when making ships that come standard with fighters. You'll have to include default outfits for all that other stuff too.
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Well, not necessiarly. Because you can pretty much put any fighter in the bay, you might want to buy a different fighter. Plus, you would have to be charged for the fighter then. Does the player have enough money? How do you tell?
Also, if you want to get rid of that type of fighter entirely, you would have to then buy them again before selling them off.
Remember that the cost looks like it's accociated with the fighter, not its individual space. (In fact, maybe I should change the names of "Total Viper Bays" to "Total Viper Space" so the concept is clearer.)
Unless I made seperate outfits for buying a fighter, buying the space, selling both, selling the space, selling both, etc.. It seemed to be too much. I think this probably a decent comprimise.
I did remember to include the stuff for buying and capturing ships, though it's possible that I forgot to update that in the latest version.
Oh, so you did. I didn't realise there were any ships available for purchase. (looks a little funny when it says "1 main fighter bay + 7 ammo")
I just bought a Target Practice but the puma escort doesn't show up in my secondary weapons. Also, if my bomber's got disabled I could only 'repair' one of them. Or if only 1 got disabled I couldn't repair it at all (it just gives the normal board dialog).
Guy, on Nov 12 2005, 10:03 PM, said:
Oh, so you did. I didn't realise there were any ships available for purchase. (looks a little funny when it says "1 main fighter bay + 7 ammo")
I just bought a Target Practice but the puma escort doesn't show up in my secondary weapons. Also, if my bomber's got disabled I could only 'repair' one of them. Or if only 1 got disabled I couldn't repair it at all (it just gives the normal board dialog).
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Arr. Yeah, I'll probably have to go update that.
Ok, fixed. All the problems were from the same bug. I had to add a "reset mission". It had to do with adding/removing temp bays when going to the outfitter.
The bay + ammo does look funny, I moved the fighter bay "ammo" to the outfit field section of the ship resource. Though it takes up another slot now.
Alternately, I guess the counter items could be added to the ships OnPurchase, OnCapture fields since they aren't for AI use anyway.
