I'm just wondering on behalf of the Sephil Saga dev team: Will we be forgiven?

It turns out that we have to scrap the rotation of the planets (after it was done and complete, btw) because of bugs in Nova.

I just know that some people (usually the type that know nothing of development) are going to say, "How come, with crons in Nova, you didn't make the planets rotate around the sun?". And we get to say, "well, because of a bug in Nova." And they say, "What bug?" And we say "An obscure one that only shows up when you do exactly what we're trying to do." And they say "BS. You guys just suck, admit it!"

OK, enough rant. The bug I'm refering to is this: You don't restart the game on the planet you last landed on. Once the planets have moved around for a while (one step is all it takes, actually), instead starting on the planet (say Saturn) you start at the resource-file 1st location in orbit, what ever happens to be there at the time. Usually, this is just a "blank" system. Now, if Saturn happens to be 8 jumps away in it's orbit, the palyer could be easily stranded, for no good reason. Can't have this, and can't expect people to always play on Strict and only play for one session, either. Right? The only way to fix this is to make the universe static, at least as far as moving planets goes. (Lots of system swapping still, though).

Really, we don't have an option in this- unless Matt wants to change the way the engine stores where you last landed. Puppy Dog Eyes I'm just bummed about it, and I wanted to check with the community and see if I/we can expect some sympathy or understanding.

If anybody remembers, we had problems like this before, but I fixed those. This problem escaped for so long because I don't play the plug for any length of time with the same pilot while I'm developing.

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~Charlie
Sephil Saga Homepage: (url="http://"http://www.cwssoftware.com")www.cwssoftware.com(/url)

Ah, yet another great engine idea gone to the crap heap. Masamune, I surely forgive you... You wouldn't know how many great ideas I have tried in Nova, just to hit some engine limitation that is impossible to get by. I definitely know the feeling.

Whether or not you have rotating planets, I am still looking forward to your plug.

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Eat blazing electric death!

Well, what do you expect? If you announce a feature and then are unable to follow through with it, people are going to bitch about it. Its best to just not go ahead and announce things you are unable to implament.

Anyway, good luck with your TC.

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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-Albert Einstein

Now, don't all beat on me for suggesting this if it sounds absurd, or cannot be done. Im not to fluent with Nova at the moment so If this is just silly, ignore me completely.

Right, Now the idea of the planets moving round the sun was excellent. I really loved that idea.

Heres an Idea how it may be able to work:

In every system, far off towards the edge of the screen, have a small station, So when you eject, you go to that station. They could be called something like ''emergency buoy 1,2,3 etc etc)'' So you get sent to this station, where you could either refuel so you can fly off to a real planet, or get somekind of mission that says ''you have been waiting in this deep space emergency rescue buoy for two weeks, and a passing freighter picks up the distress signal, he then takes you back to earth'' and have one of those instantly travel between planet things like when you go to sev7en at the end of a storyline.

I know it would be a bit of a bummer having to create an extra spob for every system, but you could make it so it's not selectable with the 1-4 keys, so it wont get in the way of any other spobs you want. Also you could have it so that when you eject, it activates an invisible mission, which lets you land at the ''emergency buoy'' so that you can't land on them unless you eject.

If any of this is possible in Nova, let me know what you think. If its not, please feel free to Ignore it.

TheRedeemer

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"Only those who attempt the absurd...will achieve the impossible. I think...I think it's in my basement...Let me go upstairs and check." - M.C. Escher
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Redeemer: it's a fix that was definately considered- especially the first time I butted heads with this. The problem is not that we can't work around it, it's that we shouldn't make the player work around it. In the first version of the problem, you would end up starting somewhere rather random, and there was a collection of "developer's loopholes" that you could jump into to fix the problem. It simply proved too annoying to continue with, which is exactly how this would end up, not to mention the potential for abuse. Add to this the fact that the bare systems are populated with pirates, it becomes dangerous.

But thanks for the mental energy, anyway.

Skyfox: this isn't something we really spent much time announcing. It was simply going to be a feature. My issue here is not to bitch about why I can't do it, but the fact that people would/are going to expect it to be there, based only on the fact that 1. Nova has crons and 2. it's set in the solar system.

SpacePirate: we're brothers in arms, against a common foe: the Nova engine.

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~Charlie
Sephil Saga Homepage: (url="http://"http://www.cwssoftware.com")www.cwssoftware.com(/url)

(quote)Originally posted by Masamune:
**SpacePirate: we're brothers in arms, against a common foe: the Nova engine.:)

/me goes play with plugins...

ph33r.

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Eat blazing electric death!
**

Forgive me if this is just stupid; I admit, I'm a newbie, but I'm trying to learn how Nova handles it's resources.

A confusing way might be to have the planet always be where you are after takeoff, and have the map rotate to account changes in positions. Probably impractical and way too much work, though.

Does each orbit position have it's own system id#? If so, could you "move" the player to the proper resource on takeoff? Finding the proper position seems like an exercise in creative cron counting?

If new orbital positions are due to changes in xpos and ypos... er, I'm drawing blanks here... sorry.

Even without rotating planets, I have to say that I respect anyone willing to slave away with flags, bits, and other 4-letter resources in creating something new. Keep up the good work!

Not wanting to sound bitter or anything but Charlie, if you hadn't kicked me off the team I could have told you from the beginnign it couldn't be done without serious comprimise. I'd know, I've tried it before. Well, best of luck with the rest (NPC's especially, it can be done just don't get greedy) of the TC.

-Starbridge42

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Hey! If I want cheesey poofs, I'll get cheesey poofs!
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"Respect my Authorita!"

Guys, the Nova engine was never meant to have your current system ripped out from under it. I assume you're rotating the planets by actually having several different systems appearing at various times. If you get shifted to a different system by ncb or what-have-you, you'll pop up on the first spob. Sorry, that's just the way it is. The engine was never meant to work in the way you're trying to get it to work.

It's not a bug, either... any more than having a VW Bug engine blowing up on you (when you turbocharge it and pump in nitrous oxide) is a bug with the VW engine.

Thanks for calling,

Dave

Quote

Originally posted by Masamune:
**Really, we don't have an option in this- unless Matt wants to change the way the engine stores where you last landed. Puppy Dog Eyes I'm just bummed about it, and I wanted to check with the community and see if I/we can expect some sympathy or understanding.
**

Would you be willing to post the plug, or a stripped down version of the plug so we can see things in action. ONe of us might be able to come up with a work around. AT the very least, it could serve as a cautionary tale and maybe keep people from going down the same path.

I'd be willing to host a site along the lines of "Things that seemed like cool ideas but don't work in Nova".

(I'd like to see how this plug works, myself)

-STH

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"Create enigmas, not explanations." -Robert Smithson

Quote

Originally posted by pipeline:
**Guys, the Nova engine was never meant to have your current system ripped out from under it. I assume you're rotating the planets by actually having several different systems appearing at various times. If you get shifted to a different system by ncb or what-have-you, you'll pop up on the first spob. Sorry, that's just the way it is. The engine was never meant to work in the way you're trying to get it to work.

It's not a bug, either... any more than having a VW Bug engine blowing up on you (when you turbocharge it and pump in nitrous oxide) is a bug with the VW engine.

Thanks for calling,

Dave**

He's right guys. I could fire up my internet connection then boot up EVO and complain about the fact that multiplayer doesn't work is a bug. Just because the engine does not work to your limitations doesn't mean it's something wrong with the engine- it just means you've hit the limit of what can be done.

Not to tear you down or anything- I think what you're doing with pressing the engine to its limits is great- keep it up. But keep in mind- the world of EVN plug-ins is one in which few, if any, will ever survive. Innovate, but also get the base stuff done as well. No one wants a cool scenario with keycarried splitting warships and igniting submunitions and planet pics that rotate, but is riddled with bugs and a weak background..

_bomb

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SPQR
"to resist is to piss in the wind....
those who do will end up smelling.."

Quote

Originally posted by Bomb:
He's right guys. I could fire up my internet connection then boot up EVO and complain about the fact that multiplayer doesn't work is a bug. Just because the engine does not work to your limitations doesn't mean it's something wrong with the engine- it just means you've hit the limit of what can be done.

Precisely so. Well said.

Quote

Not to tear you down or anything- I think what you're doing with pressing the engine to its limits is great- keep it up. But keep in mind- the world of EVN plug-ins is one in which few, if any, will ever survive. Innovate, but also get the base stuff done as well. No one wants a cool scenario with keycarried splitting warships and igniting submunitions and planet pics that rotate, but is riddled with bugs and a weak background...

I have high hopes for Sephil Saga, based on what I've seen so far. Sure, every station pic seems to be a Star Trek model that's been slightly modified, but we won't go there.

all the best,

Dave

Hey, I forgive you. You tried your best and were foiled by limitations in the engine. There's no shame in that.

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(url="http://"http://www.mazca.com/")Mazca(/url) , Moderator, (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number;=9&SUBMIT;=Go&urgaylol;=yes")EV Developer's Corner(/url)
Go get your knife.

Hey ya'll. Thanks for the replies.

I'd like to stress again that I'm not bitching about the fact that it can't be done. I tried valiantly, but, as pipeline said (and I'd like to think if anyone is a real authority on what the Nova engine can do, it's him), it's not going to happen. Que sirrah, life goes on. Hey, and everybody on the dev board got to learn a little lesson from our folly: don't try to move the same system around. Doesn't make Nova happy. Sure looks cool, though.

All I've ever been really worried about (and of course, it's a minor, but irritating worry) is that I'll have to fend off a bunch of people (who don't know it was ever attempted or thought about) who don't understand WHY its not that way. I can only speek for me, but the first thing I thought of when I read the Nova bible section on crons, was "Yeah! Rotating solar systems!" All I really posted this for, besides venting in frustration (it took me hours of work to make it all come together!) was to ask if you, my esteemed collegues, thought the same thing, and/or feel the general, plug-consuming public (which just got a hell of a lot bigger with WinNova) is going to let their expectations ruin the rest of the playing experience.

But in any case, the project is still making rapid headway despite this setback. I'd say we're still surviving on that road of EV development. We've got a hell of a lot left to offer. And if you're worried about weak background, I don't think that will be a problem! Bugs, maybe, but we've got lots of beta testers chomping at the reigns- I don't want to release it until it has been quite thouroghly gone through.

Oh, Starbridge: man, I never meant to "kick you off the team", seriously. I think you/your email just got lost or overlooked in the massive furor on my computer between halting Robotech and starting SS. I had alot of outside stuff going on at that moment to compound everything else. I'll just apologize now. Fact is, (I know you are involved on like 3 other projects right now, but anyway) if you still want to come aboard, there's more than enough stuff to do. I could really use a second resource person! And BTW, did you ever get the Robotech suff I sent you? I think I sent the whole damn thing, but it might have just been the resources. Eventually, in the far future after SS, I'd still like to finish that. It had a lot of cool features and some good potential.

Later y'all, I've got work to do, and dinner to get to (1 year anniversary with my extremely understanding GF!)

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~Charlie
Sephil Saga Homepage: (url="http://"http://www.cwssoftware.com")www.cwssoftware.com(/url)

Best of luck, kid.