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Originally posted by Onyx:
I think people have been saying this already, but sex/violence/drugs in a story do not make it "mature".

In this case, I think people are using the word 'mature' in the euphemistic, rather than literal sense.

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David Arthur
(url="http://"http://davidarthur.evula.net/")davidarthur.evula.net(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.ev-nova.net/")EV-Nova.net(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.evula.com/survival_guide/")EV Nova Survival Guide(/url)
Truth! Justice! Freedom! And A Hard-Boiled Egg!

Quote

Originally posted by spacecowboy:
**The final answer: the closer a story is to reality, the better it is. The closer a story is to reality, the more easily the player can 'fall into it', making for a better experience: the entire point behind a story is that the reader/player has an alternate reality into which they can disappear for a while. The easier they can make that transition, the better.

**

You must remember, of course, not to go too far - if it's too real, I might as well go play outside.

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May those who love us, love us, and may those who don't love us, may God turn their hearts; and if He doesn't turn their hearts, may He turn their ankles, so we'll know them by their limping.
(url="http://"http://www.evula.org/monster/")Monster Studios(/url) - (url="http://"http://www.evula.org/monster/studio/c.html")Caribbean(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by Mantaray:
You must remember, of course, not to go too far - if it's too real, I might as well go play outside.

Well, that all depends on what the story is , and how interesting you can write it. Of course, in any EV universe, much of current science "boundaries" mmust be thrown immediately out the window. You can have very human characters in a very fantastical world, of course. I don't know if anyone is familiar with the comic book series "Love and Rockets" by Los Bros Hernandez, but it's a real good example of what I'm talking about. Out of this (rather bizarre) sci-fi storyline is born a very fascinating, unusual love story (I'm referring to Jamie's stories specifically, if anyone cares). It's not so much the setting or plot as it is the characters and how you develop them. Probably the hardest part of writing fiction in general, considering how bad most people are at it.

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(url="http://"http://mailto:mk381@stu.aii.edu") - () () / }{ - (/url)
(url="http://"http://www.pacifier.com/~kkey/shipyard/index.html")Onyx's EV Shipyard(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by Onyx:
**Well, that all depends on what the story is , and how interesting you can write it. Of course, in any EV universe, much of current science "boundaries" mmust be thrown immediately out the window. You can have very human characters in a very fantastical world, of course. I don't know if anyone is familiar with the comic book series "Love and Rockets" by Los Bros Hernandez, but it's a real good example of what I'm talking about. Out of this (rather bizarre) sci-fi storyline is born a very fascinating, unusual love story (I'm referring to Jamie's stories specifically, if anyone cares). It's not so much the setting or plot as it is the characters and how you develop them. Probably the hardest part of writing fiction in general, considering how bad most people are at it.

**

Are you a speechwriter for a living or something? Most of the time, I tend to think that I can write pretty well, but you got me beat hands down, man. You said everything I wanted to say, but much better.

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Suddenly, the little scoutship disappeared and then reappeared right behind the alien warfleet. The gravitic ship's captain hailed the armada. "You are going to be destroyed, but I will give you a choice as to how you want to spend eternity: big pieces, little pieces, or quarks?"
Dead silence.
"Quarks it is, then."

As for limiting an audience, I would like to hope that the majority of people, who play EVN are mature enough to be handle a bit opf swearing and drug use in a plug in.

Currently in the plug I am up to Story mission number 8 or something and the player (I don't want to give away to much) has just been introduced to a drug that he uses in order to stay awake for weeks at a time (as if you are a pilot in the stellar navy this kinda nessaccary), I guess you can tell what is going to happen.

I am trying to keep it as a secondary, or even thirdary (that is not a word is it?) plot, something that is just their to emerse the player slightly more in what he/she is doing. Of course war and trying to survive have a much greater voice than the players growing drug addiction.

As far as research goes, I know my stuff about how people talk (well maybe) and about other 'mature' elements, but what I am having trouble with is trying to gain military realism - as in mission briefings, ranks, and generally how people operate.

I am using films as my main source (no not cheesy ones, the good ****, the stuff that is regarded as factual. Deffinately no Troy Macluer or 'The Deer Hunter'), I have been going on the internet and researching, but first hand information is really what I'm after. Know anyone that has been in the army?

Well I'm crapping on now, but one last thing: I don't mean mature as far as themes go, in a metaphoerical way, meaning strong character development and difficult themes for kiddies to understand, I should hope that most plugs have things like this in them. What I mean is drugs, sex and rock and roll, the stuff that is likely to offend certain people.

thedecline (bored and useless)

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The galaxy is about to become apocalyptic: (url="http://"http://3114.spyw.com")3114:A Nova TC(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by thedecline:
(what he said)

Ah, "mature content" as the RIAA would label it. I see nothing inherently wrong with "sex, drugs, and rock n' roll," so long as these elements aren't involved merely to say they are, included merely as a selling point. If they are important to the story and are handled carefully , by all means go ahead with it. From what you've said about your use so far, I think you're on the right track.

(And I do mean carefully. It's incredible how fine the line is between "integral" and "tasteless".)

spacecowboy, you flatter me...

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(url="http://"http://mailto:mk381@stu.aii.edu") - () () / }{ - (/url)
(url="http://"http://www.pacifier.com/~kkey/shipyard/index.html")Onyx's EV Shipyard(/url)

Amen to that, Onyx. And thedecline, the word you're looking for instead of "thirdary" is "tertiary." Yes, it's Latin, and no, it's not logical. As to your resources, look for different books -- ones on Vietnam infantry warfare are extremely rare, as not too many people enjoy talking about it. I think you'll find more along the lines of what you're looking for in the books about WWII ship and bomber crews. Try those, and combine elements from both: the size and length of duty tours from the naval ships, and the three-dimensional combat of the bombers and fighters. That's about as close as you'll get. Then just update it and modify the slang (Burgess' Clockwork Orange is great for new slang -- nearly impossible to understand, though, as it's mostly Russian-based.). Another good book that you might want to read is Joe Haldeman's (sp?) Forever War. Extremely good book, based on the idea of a future interplanetary Vietnam. That's about all the help I can give you.

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Suddenly, the little scoutship disappeared and then reappeared right behind the alien warfleet. The gravitic ship's captain hailed the armada. "You are going to be destroyed, but I will give you a choice as to how you want to spend eternity: big pieces, little pieces, or quarks?"
Dead silence.
"Quarks it is, then."

What about the fact that you could smuggle Slaves, Illegal Weapons, Drugs, etc. in Privateer and Privateer: Righteous Fire?

Or do you all not pay any attention to the MS-Dos entries to the "Space Combat / Trader" Genre...?

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Originally posted by Gluegun:
What about the fact that you could smuggle Slaves, Illegal Weapons, Drugs, etc. in Privateer and Privateer: Righteous Fire?

I don't think anyone is saying this hasn't been done before. In some ways, it's been beaten to death. That's why you have to be careful about how and where you insert such content.

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(url="http://"http://mailto:mk381@stu.aii.edu") - () () / }{ - (/url)
(url="http://"http://www.pacifier.com/~kkey/shipyard/index.html")Onyx's EV Shipyard(/url)

I think mature content should be used in EV plug ins. Obviously you do not want explicitly detailed descriptions of sex scenes and copius amounts of 'effin' and 'blindin' but a little mature content can go a long way. The occasional swear word is used in Nova, but nothing compared to other games that children play these days. I think Nova is a bit to happy for my liking. Where's the intergalactic drug smuggling? You wouldent even have to write it into a storyline but if you just added it as a commodity and you could get scanned for having it, then that would spice up the game just a tad.
I mean you just have to look at Frozen Heart and Femme Fatale, two of the best plug in's ever made, and they deal with adult content. It makes the game alot more interesting in my honest opinion. But it shouldent go to far, we don't want Galactic Pimps flying around in Low Rider Starbridges with tinted windows and Gold engines, trying to sell you their newest piece of ass, do we? (well maybe some people do...)

So use adult content, please. But use it wisely.

TheRedeemer

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-"Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food, and tyrannize their teachers." Socrates 460-399 BC. Some things never change!
-'Politics? It becomes a lot more than just politics as soon as people start dying'
- Warning - Do not attempt to operate a Spaceship while under the influence of Alcohol

I'm with TheRedeemer, EVN is to nice for my liking, the Vell-os String had a bit of nastiness towards the end, and the Fed string is full of betrayal, but I wanted a bit of harsh language, a bit more stress, and all the sorts of things that space trading games of yesteryears had, such as: sloave trading and drug trafficing.

You are right about The Frozen heart and Femme Fatale. They are so good because they have some much mature content put in, and it is done so well without any boarders of taste being broken.

This brings up a new topic: Is the community of Escape velocity going to need a ratings advice board so plug-ins can be released with a G or PG 13+ rating?

thedecline (falling off my chair)

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"You gotta ask yourself a question, do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk?"
The galaxy is about to become apocalyptic: (url="http://"http://3114.spyw.com")3114:A Nova TC(/url)

(quote)Originally posted by thedecline:
**
This brings up a new topic: Is the community of Escape velocity going to need a ratings advice board so plug-ins can be released with a G or PG 13+ rating?:)

TheRedeemer

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-"Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food, and tyrannize their teachers." Socrates 460-399 BC. Some things never change!
-'Politics? It becomes a lot more than just politics as soon as people start dying'
- Warning - Do not attempt to operate a Spaceship while under the influence of Alcohol
**

Quote

Originally posted by TheRedeemer:
**Hehe nice idea but its not like the ratings on games stop young kids playing them, it just makes them want to play that game more. It's like 'wow that's an 18 rated game that's so cool' I know plenty of 10 year olds who play stuff like Soldier of Fortune, which is one of the most gory games I've ever seen. And the thing is with something like EV children who are too young to learn about drugs and prostitutes probably woulden't understand most of the writing in the game. The only real problem would be with like I mentioned earlier, lots of swearing or explicitely described sex scenes.

And, thedecline, if your comment regarding the ratings advise board was purely a joke, Im sorry for making a fool out of myself

TheRedeemer

**

One thing to keep in mind with sexual activity described in a plug is this: I am very well-read. I will read just about any book that does not have a Doberman and a guy with a machine-gun keeping me from reading it (and I just might take my chances with the Dobie). Plenty of books describe people having intercourse. I've read a few where they were rather explicit. But it's still pretty d*** hard for intercourse in a story to be anywhere near the level it is in pornography. It is nearly impossible to create written porn Now, if you have a good imagination, on the other hand, you can fill in the blanks. But, if you're willing to fill in those particular blanks, you'd do it regardless of the storywriting.

However, we're still writing a story. We lie to people for their enjoyment. Some people enjoy cheap artificial sexual gratification. But, with that, they miss out on something else: that simple feeling of satisfaction you get when you get to the end of a truly good book, like Ray Bradbury's Farenheit 451. The goodguy loses, but, in a way, he wins. The U.S. is annihilated in a nuclear war, but it still prevails. Same goes for The Postman, and a dozen others I can't remember right now. Write. Write well, and write like nobody is ever going to read it: that way you're not afraid of somebody being unhappy or offended.

Good luck, and God Bless,
-- spacecowboy

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Suddenly, the little scoutship disappeared and then reappeared right behind the alien warfleet. The gravitic ship's captain hailed the armada. "You are going to be destroyed, but I will give you a choice as to how you want to spend eternity: big pieces, little pieces, or quarks?"
Dead silence.
"Quarks it is, then."