Greetings all,

The "Stellar starts out destroyed" flag doesn't seem to do anything...

I'm trying to create a mission string that has Sigma Shipyards send you to do missions
that fix those battered hypergates.

One way to do it would be on mission success, make the battered hypergates invisible,
and make a replacement working hypergate visible. But this doesn't look elegant.

Instead, I give those hypergates regular HG graphics, and use the original graphics for
when it's destroyed. Then I make those hypergates to "stellar start out destroyed", so
that at the beginning of the game, they'd be destroyed, and only regenerated after
the missions were complete (DeadTime is set to -1 so it won't regen on its own).

However, as I'm testing it with newly created pilots, none of those hypergates are
destroyed. I tried the flag with stations, and the stations don't start out destroyed
either.

Did I misunderstood the purpose of that flag? Are other people having the same problems?

Thanks for any help/advice/enlightenment

Pan Sola

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um... Are you using NovaTools? That makes things ALOT easier, and it doesn't sound like you are...
I am making a plug with some other people and we are doing the same thing but with alot more, look at my post,so do you wanna help?

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I don't know what's causing your problem, but here's an alternate solution: keep the hypergates set up the way you've described, but don't check the 'starts destroyed' flag; instead, put NCB expressions which destroy them into the chär resource's OnStart field. For good measure, you should also put the same expressions into the first mission of your series, in case someone doesn't start a new pilot.

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Quote

Originally posted by no_use_for_a_name:
**um... Are you using NovaTools? That makes things ALOT easier, and it doesn't sound like you are...
I am making a plug with some other people and we are doing the same thing but with alot more, look at my post,so do you wanna help?

**

I am using Nova Tools, except the "Can Land Only If Destroyed First" field doesn't stay
checked, so being wary of other problems, I double check the flags etc using regular
template too.

Thanks David for the chron suggestion, I'll try that

Pan Sola

ps. I was fiddling with "Can Land Only If Destroyed First" flag as a backup plan: make
battered hypergates as regular, non-destroyed stellars. Then after mission, "destroy"
the hypergate, which will switch to the funcional HG graphics, and allow to land.

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(This message has been edited by Pan Sola (edited 11-03-2002).)

Don't work. Tried it. Like I said, I is doing the same thing.

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Quote

Originally posted by no_use_for_a_name:
**Don't work. Tried it. Like I said, I is doing the same thing.

**

Your "Don't work" means you are getting the same problem as I am right?
(cuz it can potentially be intrepreted as "I didn't get the problem you were
getting").

Right now I'm experimenting with HG-Vega. I changed it's regular graphics
to Index 1 (resource 1001), and the deadtype to Index 64. Deadtime is set
to -1, min coolness set to 0 (so I don't need Sigma), turn on the "can land/dock"
flag, link it to HG-Tichel. I make it "Start dead".
In the char resource for OnStart, do a Y131 (131 being the resouce number of HG-Vega),
and make the pilot start in System 131 (Vega), and turn off intro screens for faster
testing.

Create new pilot, enter game. Hypergate is online.

Turned off the "Is Hypergate" flag.
Create new pilot, enter the game, docking request received.

Turned off the "Is Station" flag (inheriently on for all hypergates)
Create new pilot, enter the game, landing request received.

And I always see the functional hypergate graphics, never 64.

It seems neither the "Start game dead" flag in Spob resource or the Yxxx NCB works,
regardless for Hypergates, stations, or planets.
Or I'm just using the the flags/NCBs completely wrong...

I haven't experimented it with the cron resource yet.

Can someone verify that these problems exist, therefore identifying a bug in the Nova
engine; or verify that these problems don't exist for them, therefore I must have done
something else wrong; or inform me that I'm an idiot, and the game is performing as
expected, and I just misunderstood the Nova Bible?

Any help is extremely appreciated,

and thank you David and no_use_for_a_name again (-:

Pan Sola

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I used the Yxxx ncb to have a mission to plant a bomb on a space station destroy the station if the mission was a success and it seemed to work fine.

------------------
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Quote

Originally posted by AnubisTTP:
**I used the Yxxx ncb to have a mission to plant a bomb on a space station destroy the station if the mission was a success and it seemed to work fine.

**

Hmm... maybe the Yxxx NCB only not work with the char resouce onStart field...

I'll test on it after I finish the tones of homework that were due last week while I
was playing Nova...

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Sorry. Was in a bit of a rush. NovaTools (on my machine) OS9 doesn't LET you turn on the flag Land when destroyed for hypergates, well it does, but when I close the spöbs and re-open it it is turned off. About the graphic, I'm just living with it. Bummer, though. Plan to restore them as soon as possible.

------------------
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I is wanta being learning engisck.

I was trying to do the same thing for my plugin last night. I created a planet which was to start out destroyed, but it always appeared as not destroyed. I gave my test pilot a weapon which could destroy planets and destroyed the planet in the game (that worked fine - after a few shots the plannet turned from nice and normal to a blackened and scorched world).

At first I thought it might be because I had the Time Dead flag field as 0 (meaning that the planet would regenerate the day after it was destroyed), but after setting that to -1 or 50 it still didn't work (this might be why the Yxxx ncb method was failing though).

The only other thing I can think of is that maybe Nova Tools isn't hooked up properly to the Start Dead flag. I didn't have time to test this theory last night though. Anyone got any thoughts on it?

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Quote

Originally posted by simon:
**
The only other thing I can think of is that maybe Nova Tools isn't hooked up properly to the Start Dead flag. I didn't have time to test this theory last night though. Anyone got any thoughts on it?

**

Try setting it, and then checking the resource with just the TMPL instead of the editor and see if it isn't a bug in NovaTools.

DrR

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(url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/dr_ralph/index.html") w00tWare: NovaTools are here!(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by DrRalph:
**Try setting it, and then checking the resource with just the TMPL instead of the editor and see if it isn't a bug in NovaTools.

DrR
**

Just did some testing (as opposed to homework), and Nova Tools sets the flag correctly
for "Stellar Start Out Destroyed", so it's not a NovaTools bug (though NovaTools do
have a bug somewhere else, the "can land only if destroyed first", which you probably
already know about).

Putting Y131 in the Char resource OnStart field will not destroy the gate. However,
creating a mission that sets Y131 will destroy the gate.

So it seems the Char's OnStart field and the Spob's Stellar Start Out Destroyed flag
aren't being processed correctly.

I don't want to resort to a cron that executes immediately and destroyes all the gates
(that needs to be destroyed), unless it's verified that the OnStart and Stellar-Start-
Destroyed are bugs in the engine. Cuz if they aren't buggy, then I'm misunderstanding
something, and I want to figure it out.

BTW, Dr Ralph, your link in the sig doesn't work anymore (or rather, hasen't been working
for quite a while now). )-:

Pan Sola

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Quote

Originally posted by Pan Sola:
BTW, Dr Ralph, your link in the sig doesn't work anymore (or rather, hasen't been working for quite a while now). )-:

If you need somewhere to put the site, Dr. Ralph, I have a few nice options...

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Quote

Originally posted by David Arthur:
**I don't know what's causing your problem, but here's an alternate solution: keep the hypergates set up the way you've described, but don't check the 'starts destroyed' flag; instead, put NCB expressions which destroy them into the chär resource's OnStart field. For good measure, you should also put the same expressions into the first mission of your series, in case someone doesn't start a new pilot.

**

Ok, I tried the Cron method. It kinda works. The problem is, it doesn't set the bits the very first day
I start the game. It only set the bits after the first day. So, if I start in the system of the gate I'm
going to destroy, it'll actually be up and running, until I land and take off again (or jump out and back
in), then it'll be destroyed...

Is it official that neither putting Y131 in the char's OnStart field or setting the Stellar Start Out Destroyed flag
in Spob 113 will make it start the game as destroyed state?

Pan Sola

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Quote

Originally posted by EVula:
**If you need somewhere to put the site, Dr. Ralph, I have a few nice options...;)

**

Yeah, good idea. I've been a bit busy this year, and the final straw at $100 (AUS) for keeping my mac.com stuff, when I'd just spend $44000 on apple computer gear for our research group. I told them and Steve exactly what I though of dot mac and had to leave it to die...

If you want to host the site, let me know where I can put it so you can get it and put it up somewhere else.

Thanks
DrR

------------------
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Quote

Originally posted by DrRalph:
If you want to host the site, let me know where I can put it so you can get it and put it up somewhere else.

If you could email me about the particulars, I'll get the ball rolling on my end.

------------------
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Ok, somehow the OnStart field in Char resources suddenly decides
to like the Yxxx NCBs now, so I can destroy stellers with it.

But the "stellers start out destroyed" flag in Spob resource still
doesnt seem to do anything...

Pan Sola

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This is a major pain. I really wanted to use the 'start out destroyed' flag in my plug. It would be really good if someone who actually knew could tell use what's going on...

(Edit: I just realised how much of a toss I sound like in this post. Sorry)

------------------
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(This message has been edited by simon (edited 11-08-2002).)

So, this topic is a week old.

And within the past week, I get one other confirmation that the "Stellar Starts Out
Destroyed" flag doesn't work. Nobody has posted to say "I have used that flag before
and it works" or "This is a known bug that has been posted and report before" or "It
is not a bug, it's doing what it's supposed to do".

(I have checked and know NovaTools has set the flag correctly).

Based on the one respons and the lack of other types of responses, I'm going to conclude
that I am encountering a bug in the EVN 1.0.2 engine that is not commonly known on the
developer's forum.

Before I submit the bug report though, just want to give it one last shot on the board
for you guys to stop me from potentially making a fool of myself if my conclusion is
wrong.

So here's the summary of the problem:

For a given stellar (hypergate, station, or planet. forgot to test wormhole), having
the "Stellar Start Out Destroyed" flag set, make deadtime -1, create new pilote and
enter game, and the stellar will not be in its destroyed state. That stellar also
won't be on the "Stellar Currently Destroyed" list in the pilot log, if you open up
the pilot file.

I'm aware of alternate solutions. But just because alternate solutions exist, doesn't
mean I shouldn't try to figure out why this doesn't work, or submit a bug report if
it really is a bug.

Pan Sola

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I just did some experimenting, and I conclude that if you haven't sent in a bug report, you are plenty justified in doing so. I can't get Stellar Starts Destroyed to work for the life of me, other than by the alternative methods you have already talked about.