I know this is a plugin developers page, but it's worth a shot.

Is there anybody out there who would like to play an EV Online game? Assuming of course it were fast, well-designed, expansive, and legal, I'd love to play one. I just wanted a survey of who would too, to give me extra motivation.
Please note that the EV Online I'm designing is not neccessarily a multiplayer arena game like Quake, it's an open universe.

...

So here's what I've done so far for the online verision of EV (it's all written on Java using Codewarrior for Classic Mac (Java on OS X is awesome, the best yet, but too slow on my Blue and White G3)

Please not that I'm currently separating the network parts out of my EV project so I can use them for any multiplayer game, once I've done that, I'll post the source.

1. The client sends his or her password to the server and via JDBC (not an acroymn for Java Database Connectivity but often referred to as that) the server sends pilot information back to the client for safe keeping as well as connect the client to the system that they were last on.

2. Each system acts as a separate thread that controls everything that goes on in the system and sends every client in the system graphical information on the game every frame. This inforamtion includes every sprite (ship or bullet) currently on the screen. The actuall game code is run entirely on the server. The client just implements graphics code.

3. When a player jumps to another system, the server can easily (well maybe it's not so easy) transfer the connection over to the another system and the player starts recieving information about that system.

Things to figure out (ideas and comments welcome):

1. The planets. Systems with planets must have a separate implementation for that planet and it must enable the player to do a variety of possible things (please add ideas to my list):
- Basics - shipyard, outfitting, and refueling
- shop/trade on a public market
- chat with other players in the bar
- hire other players / or sell yourself (rather difficult to implement)
- gamble or enjoy other emenities that the planet has to offer

I also like the idea of being able to develop your own factions and colonize unihabited planets yourself. And then have a more compledx way to take over planets, maybe not every battle has to take place in space. A lot would go into this but it'd be worth it.

2. Speed issues:
Each sprite in the system must be passed to the player every frame or so. A sprite is made up of three numbers (each 2 bytes): a x-axis location, a y-axis location, and an image_number. The image number might actually have to be 4bytes because there are a lot of graphics in EV. So each sprite would be about 7 bytes. So if you want to find out how many bytes per second you'd need to download do 7 * number of sprites in the system * framerate. A framerate of 20 I found is very playable, butI think it's 30 in the original EV. This wouldn't be that bad for simple trading and small space battles, but large wars and campaigns might be tough. Adding more information but sending it at smaller intervals might help, but by how much information do I add, and what type of information?

3. Does anyone know how to use DrawSprockets properly? Sometimes when I switch screen resolutions manually, after using a DrawSprocket program my screen screws up and I have to restart. (I want full-screen to be a special feature on Macs)

4. Paralell processing:
Thus far this server model works on one server with one internet connection. I need to be able to run the server across multiple connections on multiple servers. Anyone out there know a little about networks or a least know a good web site on networked games (I'm tired of looking at beginner books on how to create a Socket in Java).

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woaw I didn´t think that there was an EV online. Justan question how would I make money cargo missions or what? Please complete this one it would be really cool Sorry I don´t know that much about programing :frown:

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Deathbed Lawyer
Why was the lawyer skimming the Bible right before he died?
He was looking for loopholes

Quote

Originally posted by kierke19:
**
<a lot about making another network ev>
**

welcome to the boards, but
this has been proposed numerouse times but to my knowledge there has been no real good game to come out. The best would be Helian wars, but that has yet to be completed.

It seems like you have some idea what you ware doing but you are missing out on some critical details.

The network idea you've proposed bluntly, wont work. What about: player prediction ,turning,lag/drop out connections..., it just seems like those 7 bits peer sprite per frame aint gonna cut it.

A while back a guy named Tycho released "Helian Wars", a two player arena-style game where each played controled a Helian and they fought to the death.

That's the closest we've come to Online EV. The project in this topic has a lot of promise, so we'll see. Good idea, though. Better then the usual "I HAVE A COOL IDEA FOR AN ONLINE EV CAN SOMEONE WHO CAN PROGRAM DO IT FOR ME???"

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Anyone who can figure out my password can choose my new sig for as long as I don't notice.
**(url="http://"http://www.drippingchipmunk.com")DrippingChipmunk.com(/url)
(url="http://"http://www.bigfurrydeal.com/~homefish/")The Science of Webboard Theory(/url)
(url="http://"http://www.jonpearse.f2s.com/ev3/ev3_quotes.php")#EV3 QUOTE ARCHIVE (/url) **

This guy seems to know what he's talking about, so I wish him a lot of luck. However, we've had plenty of people who knew what they were doing who failed anyway.

I am making depressing posts today.

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Mazca

(quote)Originally posted by ThorPrime:
**(QUOTE)Originally posted by kierke19:

The network idea you've proposed bluntly, wont work. What about: player prediction ,turning,lag/drop out connections..., it just seems like those 7 bits peer sprite per frame aint gonna cut it. **(/quote)

The server handles everything in the game so there is no need to send direction and prediction. The only thing sent are images of sprites. I know that seems slow, but fixing this is a matter of adding a few more bytes to the stream for slower connections, or implementing UDP connections rather than TCP, (which I will do). Adding a few more bytes and then changing the frame rate creates the lag effect or a prediction effect. I'm not going to worry about that until I've got the initial code to work, tested it out and solved all the bugs. This way I don't have to worry about all those prediction bugs until the game has been partially completed. What I mean by that is when I've developed a universe of multiple systems and write all the planet landing code (the planet landing is what's scaring me right now, there's a whole graphical interface that needs to be designed for that). As for drop out connections. An exception is passed to Java when a connection times out and the client is immediatly disconnected, yet his ship will continue to drift in space for about a minute or so, making him fare game for any pirates that might have been harassing him. When you're just destroyed in this online game then you just gain any insurance that you're ship came with or you put on it. Credits can't be lost, but everything else goes. To disconnect you need to land on a planet and exit that way, this also saves your data so that if you are somehow unfairly disconnected and no-one kills you, then you start at the point you last saved. This also means that I don't have to connect to the database all the time, which is a hassle and takes time.

Think of it this way. 7 bytes * 100 sprites * 20 frames per sec = 14000 bytes = 14 k / sec (you could get this speed on a cable modem) (maybe I could even compresss the data somehow and send it that way, I don't know)

100 sprites is about a pretty decent sized battle. Not often will there be so many as 100 sprites on your screen at a time. The server can judge your position to see what sprites you can see on your screen and which ones you can't and only send you that data. Mr. Server doesn't like this of course and my G3 might be a little unhappy, but it sure will lower the information passed.

I'm doing too much talking but it helps to work out these problems. Gotta go program.

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Can´t u add gameranger support or something?

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Deathbed Lawyer
Why was the lawyer skimming the Bible right before he died?
He was looking for loopholes

Quote

Originally posted by Desert-Rat:
**Can´t u add gameranger support or something?

**

Game ranger would be unessisary in what he has proposed. All data would be run through a network of servers and you wouldn't start and stop games. He's talking Masively Multiplayer, in wich all players exist in one game. One question, if this is what you were thinking, how will you afford the connection/constatnly tied up computer? ads like planet starbucks? Monthly play fee. If this is the case ambrosia would have a problem with that so maybe they could host it? I rank on...

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(url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/thorprime")NovaBurst Home(/url)

Wow, kierke19, you're the first person I've heard that's actually planned how lots od things will work! It looks like you've gotten off to an awesome start! Keep up the good work!

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You would have to be ignorant, derranged, demented, or dead to turn down the oppurtunity to fly an Azdara.

Please make this. You will be revered as a God by the EV community if you do. I'm not a programmer but I do have a few ideas that might help you.
For hiring of others/yourself you could make it so that for say, 500 credits they post an ad in the hire escorts section. It would have a list of details about their ships and them and perhaps a few words. As for planet landing, just make the ship be invincible for a few seconds and shrink the image and then disappear it. Then the player could appear on the planet. Do the reverse for taking off.

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(url="http://"http://www.geocities.com/shinigami_demon/")Shinigami's Demon: A Gundam Wing Fanfic Archive(/url)
(url="http://"http://www.geocities.com/spl_cadet/")EVN: The Beginning(/url)
US Naval Sea Cadet Corps, Petty Officer 3rd Class.

Well, for the record, I - and I'm sure everyone else that plays EV - would LOVE an online version.

As for help... well I have Visual Basic 6 for programming, but the most I've been able to do with it was make a crappy little IQ program...ohhh, that brings back memories ;).

If you do manage to get this working, maybe I'll go buy a mac that's slightly...okay, a lot better than my stupid little IIsi.

Sorry that I can't really offer you more than good luck, but...well... good luck.

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check out my(url="http://"http://www.geocities.com/escapevelocitystuff")new website(/url)(believe it or not I will keep updating this one, I had some trouble with the internet, so I haven't been online AT ALL for weeks), and tell me what you think!
"So, there is sanity in all this madness!" - Yoshimo

SO, sounds great...do you have anything to show for all your work yet?

(Not meant to be offensive)

--Alexis

Kierke, DO IT! This is very awesome. Please follow through on this.

But first, start a preliminary website and keep up a progress log. Add some preliminary screenshots if you can.

Best of luck to you, you may actually do it, and then I will worship you (at least buy you a drink sometime )

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"Pure rock fury, the solution is so clear...calling all humans and able volunteers."
(url="http://"http://users.aol.com/dualblade1")The Music Webpage(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by DualBlade:
**Kierke, DO IT! This is very awesome. Please follow through on this.

But first, start a preliminary website and keep up a progress log. Add some preliminary screenshots if you can.
**

Yes! Definitely make a website. That will net in people who are still dubious (like me).

Good luck.

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Have some pity,
for the new race in the city.
Emalgha is here to stay,
whatever those Voinan losers say!

You have it gutted out nicely. If you succeed, you will be a God in the EV community. I would love to beta test and/or help you with a website. I don't know a whole lot about Java, so I can't contribute in that sense.

Email me at ares1@cfl.rr.com if you are interested in my services.

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--ares
"There are Lab Safety rules? But teacher, havn't you heard about survival of the fittest?"
Check out my new EV website: (url="http://"http://home.cfl.rr.com/aresev/")The Legion(/url).

Sounds like you have it planned this out.. Why not make mechs battle on planets for takeovers since you can use the same combat map as the one for space fighting.. And since their are no items that you can't pass through.. use mines like the space mines to make a little more fun.. oh and the mechs would normally move slower. in most cases. So it might not be as slow as the space combat game. Could have blackmarket items too on planets. Wouldn't cost too much for fellow pirates. But for others they pay full prices. You can also have arena games.. One on ones. mechs or spaceships combats But this stuff just a bonus. I would love to play the version you already have planned out

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Life is a dream we will
all wake from one day.

I could post the EV program online, but it's not very impressive right now without a server and other people to play with. You'll see the standard EV screen but it's just your little Shuttle cruising around an empty universe. Once I finish refining the basics (my database engine was really poorly done and there's this one bug that although it barely messes up the game play is really killing me and I know will make a difference when several people want to play) I'll post the code online and then when I really feel secure I'll run the game one day for 3-4 hours (my internet connection has a 3.5 GB limit) and see the response. Maybe I can get the dorm to give up their computers and internet connections for a while. It's a big project and I doubt I'll ever write the enitre game myself, but at least I can provide a framework and see where it goes from there.

I've got to go write an essay and start studying for a test right now, but I'll be back and programming this weekend.

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Quote

Originally posted by kierke19:
**
I could post the EV program online, but it's not very impressive right now without a server and other people to play with. You'll see the standard EV screen but it's just your little Shuttle cruising around an empty universe. Once I finish refining the basics (my database engine was really poorly done and there's this one bug that although it barely messes up the game play is really killing me and I know will make a difference when several people want to play) I'll post the code online and then when I really feel secure I'll run the game one day for 3-4 hours (my internet connection has a 3.5 GB limit) and see the response. Maybe I can get the dorm to give up their computers and internet connections for a while. It's a big project and I doubt I'll ever write the enitre game myself, but at least I can provide a framework and see where it goes from there.

I've got to go write an essay and start studying for a test right now, but I'll be back and programming this weekend.
**

My brother has an unlimited T3. I'm shure he'd host it. You should see his ping on Q3. A perfect 0-15.

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(url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/thorprime")NovaBurst Home(/url)

To succinctly wrap up what I said in the similar topic on the EV:O board, good luck. You'll need it.

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Visit my EVO web site at (url="http://"http://www.evoverride.com")http://www.evoverride.com(/url)!
"What is written without effort is in general read without pleasure." -- Samuel Johnson

Man, If you pull this off you will be up there with Matt Burch and ATMOS in the EV parthenon (or whatever you want to call it). Keep up the good work!

Some suggestions:

Player identity: Each player should have their own little graphic (Be it a picture of them, a symbol, a smilie or whatever). These could appear in dialogue boxes or in the bar, and would allow you to have some personality. Also, having the ability to side with a specific government EVN style would be nice.

Death: Instead of just starting over in a shuttle, the player should be dumped on a random planet with no ship at all. If they where luckey, they would end up on a planet with a shipyard, but if they wheren't, they would have to pay for transportation to a world that did. Also, if they didn't have money for a ship, they would have to work as a copilot or somthing.

Again, please finish this! It would be the most wonderfull thing to hapen to us EV fans after NOVA.

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(/mindless babble)