Just something i found on MacGameFiles.com that would interest this specific game-creation community. its on the first page, so its hard to miss. its called TNT Basic, and it seems to be very easy to use. and since this new game creator uses a language (instead of a pretty interface and a ton of button-options, like Coldstone.), it can accomplish way more. i have finally found something easy enough for my taste, yet complicated enough to develop what i want. and since it supports networking (hell yeah), ill finally be able to create my 8 player battle-royale game. PLUS, if your game is any good, and you register TNT Basic (a whole 25 bucks!!), you can sell your game, unlike Coldstone... i just thought i'd bring this up, since Coldstone now has some big competition... enjoy.

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SN on the Pop Tracker: DEMO {MG} Zeal
Want to join the Master's Guild? Beat me in a recruit game!
Friendly rivalrys with: EVula, Thrawn, and anklebiter.
Visit the Official (url="http://"http://webpages.charter.net/matt_vorndran/mg/")Masters Guild Site(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by Zealous Cloud:
**Just something i found on MacGameFiles.com that would interest this specific game-creation community. its on the first page, so its hard to miss. its called TNT Basic, and it seems to be very easy to use. and since this new game creator uses a language (instead of a pretty interface and a ton of button-options, like Coldstone.), it can accomplish way more. i have finally found something easy enough for my taste, yet complicated enough to develop what i want. and since it supports networking (hell yeah), ill finally be able to create my 8 player battle-royale game. PLUS, if your game is any good, and you register TNT Basic (a whole 25 bucks!!), you can sell your game, unlike Coldstone... i just thought i'd bring this up, since Coldstone now has some big competition... enjoy.

**

I was going to refute your post line by line but its not worth the post. so let me summerize "you're an idiot"...enjoy

even if TNT Basic was half of what you think it is. youre still an idiot for posting this here.

thats it. you're now free not use Coldstone.

~stray

ps. nice name, play majesty much?

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Shift Pattern Graphics at (url="http://"http://shiftprint.com")http://shiftprint.com(/url)
(BR)
See CGE_Tips at:
(url="http://"http://coldroom.150m.com/CGE_Stuff/CGE_Tips.html")CGE_Tips(/url)

annnnd you have no reason to base that "im an idiot" off of. soo, you have no arguement... and whats wrong with posting it here? nothing. both are equally capable of acheiving the same thing, they just work differently. i thought RPG makers might want to turn to something else, in case Coldstone wasnt hitting it off with them. so please take your rude ass attitude somewhere else so this doesnt turn into a flame-war thread.

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SN on the Pop Tracker: DEMO {MG} Zeal
Want to join the Master's Guild? Beat me in a recruit game!
Friendly rivalrys with: EVula, Thrawn, and anklebiter.
Visit the Official (url="http://"http://webpages.charter.net/matt_vorndran/mg/")Masters Guild Site(/url)

Mr. Zealous Cloud,

I believe the point of Straytoaster was that making a post dumping on a product on that products company web space, and then proclaiming that another product on the market is a much better tool is pretty rude; which it is.

Now, I've not downloaded nor used TNT Basic, but I did take some time to go to their company's web site and poke around a bit, and I'll go through the differences since you seemed to want to only post blatantly biased/anti-CGE rhetoric.

Quote

Originally posted by Zealous Cloud:
and since this new game creator uses a language

This is correct. TNT uses an interpreted language, similar to C or basic, and programs must be written using that language. There are pros and cons to this. The pros are obviously flexibility, as you do not need to rely on someone creating objects that you can then use, etc. However the cons are that you have to learn to program. For some this just isn't an option, or a desire. Coldstone states this as one of its selling points, that you do not need to know nor learn any programming languages. Just click and go. It is a less daunting way of doing things even though it is less flexible.

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(instead of a pretty interface and a ton of button-options)

Please, if you plan to use propaganda, at least make it original and not a cut and paste off of TNT's web page.

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It can accomplish way more.

Depends what you intend to create. Every tool has a purpose as well as limitations. The best way to do things is to find the best tool for the job. Ie, I can use a Cray to create a program to print out "Hello World" on my monitor; but really, a $50 Apple )(e is plenty for that job. For some things Coldstone is more than adequate and much easier to use. And some things are beyond Coldstone's range. For those things you will want to use another tool.

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it supports networking

Coldstone never purported to support networking. It was a feature many people asked for, but no where was it stated nor implied that it would allow networking. So while TNT supports networking and that is a very good thing, those using Coldstone are not creating networkable games. If networking was a necessity then they wouldn't be using CGE in the first place.

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PLUS, if your game is any good, and you register TNT Basic (a whole 25 bucks!!), you can sell your game, unlike Coldstone

This is untrue. You can sell your games created with Coldstone. If you make them shareware then you have no worries. Price them however you want and go for it. If you plan to distribute your games commercially then you need to contact Ambrosia and work out a licensing arrangement. Since I assume you have never spoken with Ambrosia about licensing agreements, I don't believe you are knowledgeable enough to comment about it. If you are truely worried about selling a game you create/created with CGE, I would suggest that you get in contact with Ambrosia at help@ambrosiasw.com.

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i just thought i'd bring this up, since Coldstone now has some big competition... enjoy.

I don't think anyone would be upset if you had posted this in a non anti-CGE manner. A simple "Hey guys, I just found this new game builder that has you build within a language environment and has networking capabilities. If you need networking and/or want the flexibility of working within a language, then you might want to check this out" would have sufficed nicely.

Coldstone, in my opinion, is a nice piece of software that fills the niche that it intended to fill. And that niche was the person who wanted to create graphically-based games but either A) didn't know how to program or didn't want to program (I fall into category B, just as an FYI). It is made, in my opinion, primarily for beginners, to give them something that was easy to use and allowed them to create games quickly.

TNT is not for the faint of heart. Some people just get very frightened when they see arrays, procedure calls, if/than/else statements, etc. While I agree that the environment looks fairly easy to use, some people just do not want to write code. Coldstone gives them a viable alternative. TNT and Coldstone, while both game creators for the mac, are going after different audiences. They may overlap a bit, but their primary targets are different.

Please, use a little more thought in the future.

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"But soon, soon, soon... the world will be a better place, with meadows and bunnies and fiber optics in every home..."
- Tom Dowdy, Apple Computer
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(url="http://"http://www.avalon.net/~honda/pog/pogwalkthrough2a.htm")PoG Walkthrough and Compendium(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/vftp/dl-redirect.pl/PoG_Dev_Tools_Source.sit?path=coldstone/resources&file;=PoG_Dev_Tools_Source.sit")PoG Dev Tools(/url)

I tried to use that. I couldn't figure it out! If you've seen the game Bang On! made by it, that's all it can really do. I couldn't figure out how to load anything! It is way too hard for us people who aren't programmers. You have to know the ends of programming to use this.

What I mean by "that's all it can do" is that you can't have the player walk off into the screen. Only what they see is where they can go.

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If people would take the time to understand and know someone, to appreciate this person, wouldn't we live in a better world?
But if we did, then how would we learn anything? A world without hurt is a world without lessons.

(This message has been edited by PinkFluffyBunny (edited 08-21-2002).)

Hello, some of you may remember me as ill_a_nois,
i beta Tested for ColdStone, and in general have been around since 1998, before Ambrosia got its hands on it.(back when it was turnbased). ::end flashback::

either way, TNT Basic is not new. THe features in version 1.1 are quite impressive and warrant adding it to the list, of development tools that no designer should be without. however , it is not a ready made solution for RPG's. It does allow you to delve into matters like isometric motion, and can eliminate some of the grief some of you are experiencing by trying to contort ColdStone to do things it's not designed for...specifically because you may not know many of the INs and OUTs of the system.

While it is quite logical, for those seeking to advance past there days in ColdStone and move up to something more freeRange, like
TNT Basic, which is quickly surpassing METAL,REAL & Future Basic as an IDE.

You are incorrect in saying that you cannot sell your games, even thought the languagee is foggy in the Liscense agreement, ANDREW/DEE ARE YOU LISTENING, you may distribute your game as freeware (100% free), shareware (try-before-you-buy), or you can reelinquish it to Ambrosia (kinda like freelancing)....here's where you had a discrepancy, you may not sell it commercially... as in you: may not sell it in stores, boxed copies, major retail distribution,pay up front(electronically,physically)

of course with all laws/rules/regulations, your only in trouble if you get caught, but seeing as how you thought the game was good enough charge money, garner national fame. you just might get caught.

Coldstone is still THE MOST COMPLETE SOLUTION FOR MAC GAME MAKING TODAY , which is great for the more recent inhabitants of this web community, who prefer to utilize pre-Manufactured graphics (mainly the ones included on the CD), it's perfect for them. Even for more advanced users who prefer to write stories,dramas,comedies... basically it has a great foundation for entry level users, it's what GameMaker was when it first came out, a creative outlet for the masses. In general it will serve to grow the Mac GameMaking community. So thanks but people who are looking or something more, will find it at their own pace...your not a digital prophet sent to liberate, the masses from their convienience and ease of use. Plus
"your not saying nothing new."

and yes, (url="http://"http://www.tntbasic.com")TNT Basic(/url) is all that he's saying especially since it recently left its fledgling stage, the only thing that it lacks is standard apple interface objects, which can be faked graphically, and which can also impede/aid game development
for those interested i already set up 2 threads over at (url="http://"http://www.idevgames.com")iDevGames.com(/url),which is a good community to step into if you plan on moving up from scripting to coding, regarding TNTBasic.

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(url="http://"http://www.geocities.com/ellrx/index.html")The trinity complete: COldstone, TNT Basic, Klick&Play;(/url)

zealous

Ok Im sorry, Cafall explained the err of my post, and i apologise but please refain from posting items of this nature. there are other game dev enviorment out there but the only competiton should be between finished games then will see who ROCKS and who walks.

if you can use TNTBasic you should look into use java to program your next app.

~stray

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Shift Pattern Graphics at (url="http://"http://shiftprint.com")http://shiftprint.com(/url)
(BR)
See CGE_Tips at:
(url="http://"http://coldroom.150m.com/CGE_Stuff/CGE_Tips.html")CGE_Tips(/url)

I tried TNT Basic and I can say this - I chose Coldstone because after fidling with code, C and Basic, before I really wanted something to ease the pain and help me move along quicker - which is why I bought Coldstone.

Also after checking out TNT Basic's graphics engine - in the test maps that they have for download - the engine seems a bit slow and stuttery at times - I'm not bashing it, but just mentioning what I saw come out of it.

Also it doesn't compile for windows - which, even though I personally hate windows - is definetely a plus - especially if you plan to sell your game!

Finally, I say this - Zealous Cloud you want to prove that TNT Basic is as good as you say - then make a game, RPG-style, with it and post a link to it here - show us the error in our ways. Because what I saw on there site was only OK, nothing amazing. I'm always looking, out of curiousity, to find another game builder app and have so far found that I still prefer Coldstone dispite it's minor limitations in some departments. <--That is not to be taken in a rude way, but a friendly challenge!

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(url="http://"http://www.sinthesisent.com")http://www.sinthesisent.com(/url)

Stark Bledfast, you have very good points. TNT and Coldstone are 2 differnt things, but they both can create games with ease. but one does better than the other. i can see Coldstone createing way better RPGs than TNT can put out. but i also see that TNT can make multiplayer Platform/side scrollers easily (which is what i want to do). i was just simply giving this community something to look at, and im sorry if the title of this thread is a little offending.. also, i did not know that you could sell your games that were made under CGE. it said in the liscense agreement for CGE, that you could not sell the games made with it. so that put me down a little. but with TNT, you dont have to do anything to get your game to sell. simply compile it and burn it on a disc.

ellrx, you have a good point. Coldstone is the most widley popular game creator, no doubt.

straytoaster, appology accepted. but i dont know if many RPGs will turn out through TNT. one will, no doubt, have more than the other. but i can see TNT users making more action oriented games such as platform/side scroller games. but if both do come out on the same genre, we will compare. heh.

klatu: i never said it was better, i meant that i have high hope for what TNT could do. and i would like to prove this, but im still reading and tinkering at this stage. and if i ever get around to creating a game with it, ill be sure to get it out to everyone to try.

i ask that a mod move this thread to a more suitable board.

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SN on the Pop Tracker: DEMO {MG} Zeal
Want to join the Master's Guild? Beat me in a recruit game!
Friendly rivalrys with: EVula, Thrawn, and anklebiter.
Visit the Official (url="http://"http://webpages.charter.net/matt_vorndran/mg/")Masters Guild Site(/url)

(This message has been edited by Zealous Cloud (edited 08-21-2002).)

Quote

Originally posted by ellrx:
You are incorrect in saying that you cannot sell your games, even thought the languagee is foggy in the Liscense agreement, ANDREW/DEE ARE YOU LISTENING,

Yes I am. Yes, you can sell your game. Of course, we prefer you go through us (and you would probably prefer it too since we can offer you a lot of visibility, services, and support). However, you can go on your own, even for pure commercial. You just need to obtain a license from us which is simple and dealed on an individual basis.

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Dee Brown
Beenox inc. - (url="http://"http://www.beenox.com")www.beenox.com(/url) (check our new web site!)
(url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/games/coldstone/")Coldstone Game Engine(/url) / (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/games/pog/")Pillars of Garendall(/url) developers

Zealous- in coldstone, you can make side scrolling games. In fact, you can make games from hangman to Pillars of garendall to The legend of smileyfaces ( a project I might look into on !COLDSTONE!)and sell your games(as mentioned earlier) withOUT scripting and have movies in the game, music, everything!!! So, I looked into TNTbasic, and I didnt see it doing that.And I agree with a lot of people in this post, its rude to do what you did. Hope I didnt butt in or somethin'. Goodbye~~Chrios

Zealous Cloud,

Here's a brief heads-up for you; I'll be making my next game with the Coldstone engine. I've shopped around for a bit, and come back to it for a variety of reasons.

Have I made a bad decision? Well, you'll just have to wait for the product to find out.

all the best,

Dave Williams
Project Manager @ ATMOS for Escape Velocity: Nova

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forge
(url="http://"http://www.evula.com")EVula(/url)
(url="http://"http://www.sourcecod.com")sourcecod(/url) for hosting that doesn't suck.

OK guys, I think that's about everything covered? If anyone wants to continue this, it might be better in a) a new topic or perhaps the Just Games forum. Of course, you can ask us to open it. We might.

No objections? Good. I thought there wouldn't be.

-Andiyar

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"Any good that I may do here, let me do now, for I may not pass this way again"

One of the biggest things for me with Coldstone is that you can make games that can run on the Mac and Windows. TNT Basic seems to be Mac only. When I make a game it is important for me to be able to also distribute it to Windows users to play.

-Elektrix

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