...in EVO programming?

I was going to explain myself, but I can't be bothered so just read this

http://www.ambrosias...showtopic=99971

Answer there or here it's up to you, I just wanted to bring it to the attention of the devloping community

--gav

We had much the same debate a while ago. It really starts at or around reply 16, it got quite heated. For my part I'd say, no.

I don't see much point in starting an EV/O plug, but if you're already as far along as you are, and are better with EVO editing than Nova, I'd say go for it. Besides, if the plug is good, there's a fair chance someone will volunteer to convert it to the Nova format.

You can do quite a bit more with Nova's engine, but in this particular case it would probably hinder more than help, as you would need to learn all of the ins and outs of the engine to make the plug better than it would be with years of experience with the EVO engine.

Edwards

It's a matter of time, features, and audience. If you only have the time to deal with the much more developer-friendly (in terms of time) EVO engine, can get your ideas across without fancy-pants Nova engine features, and you are happy to reach a smaller audience (yes, many people still play EV and EVO), then go ahead and make an EV or EVO plug-in. It all comes down to the developer.

Frankly, I'd like to see a revitalized EVO developer community. It's still a great engine, it's a shame people aren't using it as much as they used to. I remember a time when EV and EVO were developed on simultaneously with dual-releases, a time when EV plug-ins were just as popular as EVO plug-ins. Nowadays Nova seems to be the only engine.

Jesus christ Hudson, that was like more like a debate on whether to invade Iraq. I think you guys both missed the point.

Maybe he wanted to build on the EVO engine because that would take months rather than years.

At the end of the day, a good TC (or plug) is a good plug. You shouldn't need a superior engine to make it more fun. The Frozen Heart was not on Nova, and as far as I'm concerned it beats at least two of the original games hands down in terms of storyline and ingenuity.

Just reading that argument has made me decide that I'm definately developing this for EVO, and those who don't want to play it because of the 'inferior' engine will lose out. Shame.

That part about the credentials was quite funny though. Ha ha.

--gav

...and I think you rather missed my point. I didn't say that using the Nova engine makes your plug/TC more fun or in any way automatically better. All I said was that if you actually want your plug/TC to be played by any substantial volume of users, the Nova engine is the only show in town. If you're doing it for personal enjoyment or because you're learning the ropes; use whatever you want, otherwise, wake up and smell the resources.

And on the 'credentials' bit, as I recall, I rather enjoyed writing it

mrxak, on Oct 19 2005, 04:54 AM, said:

It's a matter of time, features, and audience. If you only have the time to deal with the much more developer-friendly (in terms of time) EVO engine, can get your ideas across without fancy-pants Nova engine features, and you are happy to reach a smaller audience (yes, many people still play EV and EVO), then go ahead and make an EV or EVO plug-in. It all comes down to the developer.

Frankly, I'd like to see a revitalized EVO developer community. It's still a great engine, it's a shame people aren't using it as much as they used to. I remember a time when EV and EVO were developed on simultaneously with dual-releases, a time when EV plug-ins were just as popular as EVO plug-ins. Nowadays Nova seems to be the only engine.
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Thats because EV and EVO were nearly the same. EVN is the first big jump. Its like being sad that all the developers are developing for OS X, OS 8 and OS 9 were good and there were often programs that ran on both. You need to be realistic, there are many features in Nova that can't be replicated on the older engines easily or sometimes at all.

You may want to see a revitalized EVO community but that hope has about the same chance of happening as a revitalized OS 9 community. And for a good reason, both OS X and the EVN engine are a good bit better than the things that came before them.

Hudson, on Oct 19 2005, 05:46 AM, said:

...and I think you rather missed my point. I didn't say that using the Nova engine makes your plug/TC more fun or in any way automatically better. All I said was that if you actually want your plug/TC to be played by any substantial volume of users, the Nova engine is the only show in town. If you're doing it for personal enjoyment or because you're learning the ropes; use whatever you want, otherwise, wake up and smell the resources.

And on the 'credentials' bit, as I recall, I rather enjoyed writing it
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I agree. One very important thing to remember is that starting next year Apple will begin their transition to to Intel and that classic, along with EV and EVO will be going away. So if you make your plugin for EVO anybody that buys a new Mac starting in a year or so will have no way to play it whatsoever. I'd give a second thought to developing for an engine that offers less options and an engine that will not run on new computers starting in a year or so. Also don't forget about the Windows users, they do not have EVO and you'd be mission out on whats likely a good sized audience.

Hudson may have been a bit forceful, but he is right. If you want to make something that cuts off one market completely and that nobody in the other market will play ( and that in a year or two, something that nobody in that market with a new computer can play ) the go ahead and use EVO. If you'd rather your work be considered a success and be playable for years to come then use the only engine that will continue working on both platforms.

Everyone here seems to assume there there is a EV-Nova gaming community to speak of, let alone one for EV/EVO. Those games were successful at a time when there was nothing like that available on the Mac. Times have changed - even Nova looks seriously dated next to the current competition.

You cannot assume that because Windows software is used by 90% of the computing market, you have a potential 90% target audience for a Nova plugin, simply because Nova is available for Windows! Most of the Mac users I've spoken too in the real world have never heard of EV, and this is a gaming community which has yet to be swamped by crapware, unlike the PC, where Nova has had little impact.

If you'ra doing it purely for self-gratification, and for sharing among your friends and patrons of the board, then you shouldn't need to ask 'is it worth it?'. I would prefer the EVO engine in this regard as it's better documented and sets the quality-bar/user expectation much, much lower. Plus, the plug could be ported to Nova later (ie. Polycon).

If you're justifying your efforts based in the number of downloads, then you're using the wrong game engine, and the wrong platform.

I don't see why making a plug for EVO would get substancially less audiences. I know that many of the noobies who joined up on EV NOVA probably won't be interested, and I'm not interested in them. I want the old EVO community to play, the people I used to speak to when I first joined up. Admittedly, most of them have ######ed off now but that't no reason not to produce something amazing for those who are still here.

What I'm saying is, I want the people who joined from EV onwards to play. The PC and OS X gamers who are too stubborn or uninterested in going back to the old system will just miss out on a (if I may say so myself) bloody good thing. And I have full intention of updating it to Nova once it is finished.

It's a shame that all the technology is moving on really, just at a time when I'm getting so good at programming that I could make a plug-in of 50+ quality missions in about 10 days. Oh well.

--gav

pistgavin, on Oct 20 2005, 10:24 AM, said:

And I have full intention of updating it to Nova once it is finished.
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...then we won't be missing anything at all then, will we

pistgavin, on Oct 20 2005, 10:24 AM, said:

What I'm saying is, I want the people who joined from EV onwards to play. The PC and OS X gamers who are too stubborn or uninterested in going back to the old system will just miss out on a (if I may say so myself) bloody good thing. View Post

"Too stubborn"? I'm sorry, but a lot of people simply aren't prepared to dig out an old machine, using an obsolete OS, just to run an addon for an old game...

The main reason I wouldn't, is that I'd have to use a bloody ADB keyboard...

Well then they'll lose out won't they.

--gav

pistgavin, on Oct 20 2005, 04:24 AM, said:

It's a shame that all the technology is moving on really, just at a time when I'm getting so good at programming that I could make a plug-in of 50+ quality missions in about 10 days. Oh well.
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Making a nova mission is not substantially different from an EVO mission. What's the trouble?

i still play ev clasic but its using the nova port. any thing that you can do with clasic/overide you can basicly do on the nova engine. still the classic is still fun

I think that it was utterly brilliant that you dug up this four-month-old topic to say one minor thing.

-Bob

Your main() function is not returning a value...

But your new and more glamourous avitar is returning food from my stomach to my mouth, Tycho.

rmx256, on Mar 3 2006, 12:27 PM, said:

But your new and more glamourous avitar is returning food from my stomach to my mouth, Tycho.
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My doctor said there would side-effects. You should see what's under the hat...

oh sorry i'll change it