I was wondering, what sort of plugins are out there to improve EV: Nova's gameplay? I don't mean things like adding more outfits or whatnot, though that could be a part of what I say... I mean stuff like changing the game so it is more fun, so that it is more immersive. Perhaps some system to help the player get a better idea of what the factions are, by facilitating exploring? Perhaps something to make getting money -- which many believe is too easy -- a little more rewarding? What about those things that seem like, well, little things that could be improved. Such things like, "Isn't the IDA frigate a bit small for how it is supposed to look? It looks like it should be bigger than it is..." And perhaps expanding on the Krypt pods? Giving the Vell-os some more combat-oriented missions, or making some of the existing ones more combat oriented? Making that huge Sigma money reward, well, more sane? Adding a bit more space and jump capability to some of those little underused fighters? Have some sublot that has to do with asteroid mining, and have it be more profitable? What things do you all think could stand improvement with EV:Nova, and what plugins are out there to work on them and fix them?

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(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/evn/addons.html")http://www.ambrosias...evn/addons.html(/url)

Matrix

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"Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool."

sigh I've been looking, but I'll look again... and do you think you could add any sort of discussion to the questions that I asked that CANT be answered with a simple link?

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Quote

Originally posted by Gluegun:
**(snip)Such things like, "Isn't the IDA frigate a bit small for how it is supposed to look? It looks like it should be bigger than it is..."
**

Given how the game is made and how people are able to make these plugins, I think it would not only be impossible to make it larger, it would take up most of the screen. Perhaps you can insert some of your own imagination where the graphics fail?

I've seen a total conversion where the big ships are bigger. Some people like that, I don't. But I work with it.

Quote

**
And perhaps expanding on the Krypt pods? Giving the Vell-os some more combat-oriented missions, or making some of the existing ones more combat oriented?
**

Have you used the search engine? I and many others have asked the big WHY about the Vell-os story. It was never originally intended to be more than a demo.

Quote

**
Making that huge Sigma money reward, well, more sane? Adding a bit more space and jump capability to some of those little underused fighters?
**

Wait, you want to add space to a ship that isn't supposed to have a lot of space? They're fighter ships; they're not meant to fly across the galaxy and back.

Quote

**
Have some sublot that has to do with asteroid mining, and have it be more profitable? What things do you all think could stand improvement with EV:Nova, and what plugins are out there to work on them and fix them?

**

Asteroid mining is a rather boring task. But if you know the right systems, you can mine the right stuff, take it to the right system and get the money.

As for fixes to the game (someone asked this and I cannot remember where it was asked. Something along the lines of the game fixes almost done and to post what you thought were bugs) Anyway, the one thing that burns me in a game or book is when a galaxy based game refers to the entire universe, like "Best fighter in the Universe" "Largest company in the Universe"

There are a couple of such things in the game where a game based on a Galactic scale (one galaxy of planets) refers to the Universe.

Sort of like how when America has a Football (not Soccer)game and after the Superbowl, one team is proclaimed (b)World Champions(b). It is done in Baseball too, even though other countries have baseball.

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Ivanova: "I can only conclude that I am paying off karma at a vastly accelerated rate."

WARNNG: This thread starts out civil but turns into a rant! You have been warned!

I would make my own mod but...

... I'm a windows user. And apparently, there isnt gonna be any way for us to do little tweaking things... :frown: :frown:

Anyway, here are a few things that I've noticed that definantly, IMO, need to be fixed...

Also, for each and every subplot and main plot, instead of thrusting you into it, shouldn't something like this pop up:

"You see what appears to be a representative for the Federation Navy looking for a good pilot. Do you approach? Yes / No" When you are about to consider entering a mission. I mean, heck, I felt BAD for turning down the Wild Geese subplot... I dont wanna feel that... someone should do that...

Money is too easy to get. Make us WORK for upgrades, and drool over them!

Specifically, the sigma cargo ships and Gefjon make getting money too easy... lower the reward on the charter missions and big cargo missions, specifically.. and make gefjon harder and add more pirates...

The Cruise Liner needs to cost way more than it should. I mean, 150,000, and you can get that back with one charter mission to the right place? Please. It is a LUXURY LINER. make us pay for that... again, getting $$ is too easy...

Is it just me, or are a good amount of weapons out there not really viable unless you have a LOT of money to change tactics a lot..? I mean, lots of little weapons should be viable in a fighter... so I think a few things should be changed...

Blasters need to be a bit more effective than they are now... perhaps longer range? Like Light Cannon. why can you only have FOUR? Can't I get a (relatively small..) ship with, like, six weapon mounts and the sigma mount reinforcement and put ten of those mofos on it? That would kick ass One should be able to DO that sort of thing with small weapons; thats why they are small!

Uhm... is it just me or do chainguns not, well, seem all that valuable? Why wouldn't someone make a "primary weapon" version of a chaingun that has a bit longer range, ISN'T made obsolete by fusion pulse cannons, and doesnt need extra ammo?

How about making the light fixed railguns a bit better, eh? Not take up so much space... make them a viable alternative to fusion pulse cannons? Maybe fire a bit faster? For the hell of it, I decided to get a fed patrol boat and try out some different weapons on it... for the price, shouldn't three light railguns outdo three fusion pulse cannons? Nope, turns out this isnt the case... grrrr... each weapon should have some reason to use it, and we should be given good reasons to mix primary weapons (ie, blasters for energy drain, railguns for sniping, chainguns for armor drain, etc. etc...)

Is it just me, or shouldn't there be some "light capital ships" taht are at laest CLOSE to the starbridge/valk in utility? I was all excited about getting a patrol boat ASAP, as it sounded like a fun ship, and, well, it sucked. and it took one helluva long time to get. IMHO, it should be possible to get fed ships A LOT earlier in the game, and someone should make the Patrol boat a good bit better than it is right now! Same with the Scout ship -- make you able to get the ship when it is still financially feasible to do so. Remember the starting fed missions, where you have to already have killed a good amount of people and be in a decent ship to beat them? I want to be happy to buy ships -- scout ship, patrol boat -- taht are an UPGRADE from that ship, as a reward for doing the missions and sticking with the plotline. Plus, what is the use in having patrol boats if the civilian versions -- starbridge, valkyries, are (in their stock versions), mostly better? IMO, one should make the scout ship faster, give it more than 5 jumps (its a SCOUT SHIP, for crying out loud!), give it more weapons. In essence, make it WORTH (in some ways) the extra 125,000 credits over a valkyrie. Hell, look at these links and compare them:
(url="http://"http://www.evula.com/survival_guide/evn-ships/stats/fed_scout.html")http://www.evula.com.../fed_scout.html(/url) (url="http://"http://www.evula.com/survival_guide/evn-ships/stats/civ_valk.html")http://www.evula.com...s/civ_valk.html(/url)

Rediculous. Yes, the valk is a heavier ship, but so? make the scout a better scout. Same goes with the Patrol Boat vs. the Starbridge. They cost the same, so make them about equal... and there should be an upgrade/mod version, like some kind of "Personal Escort" or something (think a personal ship that some high up fed Brass would travel in, if they wanted to get somewhere fast..) that stands up to some of the higher end modified starbridges and valkyries... and, well, for 2.5 million, shouldn't the RAGE Gunboat, in a few ways, hold its own and be better than Valks/Starbridges/etc.? I mean, seriously. 2.5 million. It's about the same size as a Mod Starbridge, it costs a helluva lot more, it should be better than one in a good amount of ways...

Of course I am speaking of utility to the player. Ships should be FUN first and foremost.. able to tweak them out, use different ships for different playing styles, not just "Starbridge vs. Valk!!!!!11" :frown:

Make it "Starbridge vs. Valk vs. Patrol Boat vs. vs. RAGE Gunboat vs. Abomination vs. Striker..."

Ah, I have a wonderful Idea... you know how people are completely modding out IDA Frigates to be some KICKASS warships... well, why isn't there a Rebel version of the IDA frigate? Have it be a carrier, with upped speed, jump-speed, get rid of most of the cargo space (leave 50 tons...) and, well, after sigma mods, HOW much space is that to work with? Just say that the rebels standardized it to have that much weapon space, and made it a light carrier for quick insertion and extraction of a crapload of Vipers... Make it cost what it would cost to take a normal IDA Frigate, and do all of the relevant sigma upgrades and minor tweaks to make it a viable warship...

Heck, look at this:
(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/webboard/Forum26/HTML/010001.html")http://www.ambrosias...TML/010001.html(/url)

Also, to make using the fighter ships more, well, feasible in the game, shouldn't, you know, they all be UPGRADES from the shuttle? Yes, they are small, but gameplay should matter first; make the player versions a bit bigger when possible; give everything at LEAST three jumps (except maybe the Viper...) and at least 5 tons of cargo space... I mean, I should have a good REASON to use a Lightning and Thunderhead as my primary ship sometime...

Okay, rand mode off, lol...

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Quote

Originally posted by Gluegun:
**

Ah, I have a wonderful Idea... you know how people are completely modding out IDA Frigates to be some KICKASS warships...

**

While EVN will see me rule in my Class II Pirate Valkyrie (Starbridge just doesn't appeal to my sense of style...) the IDA Frigate will always hold a dear place in my heart. I have, at various times, outfitted one as long range artillery (loaded with railguns), a carrier (bought up a Thunderhead bay and a Viper bay) and another as a close-support gun platform. (turrets and guns.)

This was accomplished by buying every single possible mass expansion and conversion. This left the basic IDA Frigate with 142 tons of cargo space (down from 250). I also added every speed mod i could.

I humbly submit that the IDA Frigate is one of the most versatile platforms in existence. It has the shields and armor that allow you to either duke it out with the best, or simply survive to escape. It also has the crew to capture any smaller ship you would care to, or at least acceptable odds with larger ships.

In terms of money, I took a 750,000 credit warship, upgraded it for about a million credits. 1.75 million is an excellent price to pay for a Corvette-class (Talking EV here for a minute) ship. Here, friend, is your "light capital ship".

Cheers,
Guapo

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"Quote it, paraphrase it, soak it in peanut oil and set it on fire. I don't mind in the least." - forge
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Glue,

While I don't share all your views, I will sympathize with regards to the ease in aquiring money and the "upgrade path" of starships in general.

Perhaps the most frustrating aspect of this is the nature of the beast; the game mechanics of all the EV games have been well-understood, and once you discover the "right" combination of ships/outfits/mission-paths, it almost becomes too easy to fall into that system. And so, since I know what that system is, I do it at the start of every new game:

Starting from the Shuttle, I am able to buy a Class D Starbridge (ShipVariants1.0.4 my only plug-in) without firing a single shot, going on a single cargo run, entering into a single storyline, or straying more than a couple of jumps from Sol. And once I have that ship, which suits my fighting style well, it isn't long before I have it stuffed to the gills with outfits, 30M cr. in the bank (and not just from Gefjon), a full compliment of escorts at my side, a Deadly Combat rating...and no more challenge to the game.

I could capture a Mod E starbridge I suppose, but the small tweaks it offers over the D barely make it worth while, save to say that i've done it. I could also mess around with other ships, which I have, but I keep coming back to the Class D for missions; I can take out any ship in the game with a well-timed sneak-attack, out-run most anything that sees me coming, and I never need more than 10 tons of cargo space anyway. It's the best one for me, and everything else is just limiting myself to artifically create a challenge.

In short, the challenge of EV is learning the system of game mechanics, and not the gameplay itself. The rich storylines and involving characters you meet along the way become almost ancillary as you know that whatever you're going to be going up against, your ship can handle it as-is. This is my only criticism of the EV line as a whole, which I think underlies what you said in your post; the system is static and once you learn the "right" combination between your style and what the game mechanics require, it doesn't matter if it's a Mod Starbridge or a Valk or an IDA Frigate that you're flying; it is the skeleton key to every mission, and none of their locks ever change.

If I had my druthers, I would say that what EV needs is a chaotic, player-affected system spread over the universe to keep me on my toes; I have at present a ship worth 1.75M credits and 6 Escorts worth 15M a piece, yet nothing on them ever breaks that can't be fixed for free by stopping by your nearest starbase, my crews never need to be paid, let alone given shore leave, and all their missle banks get restocked for free. When I was flying my Snowy Owl around and saw a lone Manticore jump into the system, I panicked; now that I have six of them flying on my wing, Fed Gunboats in Sol don't even stop by to see if I have licenses for all those ion cannons simply because I'm a Good Citizen. I've dumped hundreds and thousands of tons of luxury goods and medical supplies off at Alt and Rebel II, yet the price never changes. I've destroyed, diabled, and/or boarded every Assn and Fr Trade ship on its way to Scheall and no one's come looking for me; I've marauded anyone who's stopped by Gefjon for years and the word still hasn't gotten out that it's not a safe place. Of course, the governors of Thraine have never invited me over for dinner, either. And finally, even with 250M credits to my name, I can't put a quad light blaster turret on order at my local outfitters; I'd love to walk into Sigma shipyards and write them a blank check to build me the perfect Mod Yaga Starbridge, too, but they don't talk my calls, even after all the help I've given them over the years.

Making the necessary changes to the EV engine to have this sort of environment within the game is probably infeasible. But without my pilot making some sort of non-scripted impact on the universe, the ultimate style of gameplay in EV isn't going to change no matter how many FPCs and Marine Platoons I buy.

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For some the fairest thing on this dark earth
is Thermopylae and Spartan Phalanxes low'ring lances to die
- Sappho

(This message has been edited by Yaga (edited 04-18-2003).)

O_o

How much did that class D cost you?? And how did you pay for it? I would like to do something like this, if I was doing the fed storyline...

The thing I like is working up to different ships and loadouts, and working up to different strategies for different pilots... taking my time and enjoying the feel of a new ship, some new guns, a new strategy, all of which work...

Also... a lot of what I was asking for, I wouldn't mind in an optional, player-created plugin... That's why I was asking for someone to make a balance plugin, lol. I know that these won't 100% be accepted! My idea is to make more than just Valkyries and Starbridges the only "fast, good, upgradeable" ships around, and to give different weapons combinations different utility, letting things OTHER than FPC's be, well, worth it (especially in smaller ships), and, for every plotline, an incentive to use the ships from the government you are working for in a gameplay-order and cost-effective way... and for things to roughly cost what they are worth...

Also making the fleets in the game a bit more strategically viable... better immersion that way. When I think of this, I think of the idea of rewarding the player for making money, for being creative, for trying new strategies, for following a plotline, rather than "oh here are some useless ships and weapons that you don't need."

When I wrote much of this, I was looking at the survival guide, and remembering my own tests, and how the FPC's beat any normal gun out there (which they do, in price/performance, weight, refire rate, damage capacity, etc. etc. etc...).. I dunno, I just think the game is a bit too balanced in favor of the player.. make blasters useful, make other ships useful, give the player something that is gonna whoop their ass, so that they are damn excited to get one of their own, instead of going for "the best starbridge mod e filled with FPC's.."

shrugs I dunno. I just like different types of toys to play with, different strategies, and a challenge, thats all.

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If you can't make the IDA Frigate bigger, then make that damn Thunderhead finghter smaller. Look at the size of the Viper, and thethunderhead should be about that size, if not a tiny tad bigger. The slot on the side of the IDA Frigate is a good reference point.

It wouldn't have to take up the whole screen if you made it a bit bigger, and certainly not if you made the Thunderhead smaller.

It is quite a silly part of the EVN graphics.

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The galaxy is about to become apocalyptic: (url="http://"http://3114.spyw.com")3114:A Nova TC(/url)

To quote pipeline and mcb, "Its just a game, not everything has to make sense."
If the size of the ships was realistic, most of the fighters and such would be 1 or 2 pixels, and some of the larger capital ships would take up the whole screen. Would you prefer that to having ships that are a more viewable size and having to displace a little of you reality sense?

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"If you can't feel the Force, you're not pushing it." -Prof. Li on the "Force"
Got g?
(url="http://"http://www.badastronomy.com/")Real astronomers use kilometers. Hardcore astronomers use centimeters.(/url)

I would like to see EV Online. Its a perfect platform for an online game, and playing against actual people would take the fun to a whole new level.

I know it's been talked about before, and I'm guessing it's been shouted down, but honestly the only thing that keeps me coming back to the Ambrosia website every 6 months or so is to see if theres any news about a possible EV Online game. With any game such as this, no matter how big and different the new universe and storylines are, there's only so much you can do.

As far as the ship size goes, the screen zoom could vary depending on what size ship you have.
If you have a small ship, the screen is zoomed in on it at the same level it is in the game currently.
If you have a large ship, the screen is soomed out, making your ship take up a similair amount of screen space, but making other ships/planets look smaller.
This would make it more realistic while making it possible to view enough space around your ship to manouver.

The Ares board is over that-a-way.

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Ecky- ecky- ecky- ecky- pikang- zoop- boing- goodem- zoo- owli- zhiv'
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I feel a little lame mentioning it, but the variable ship size has bothered me a bit from time to time. It's not that I have an expectation of realistic scaling, but that i thought the various classes of ships would be in scale relative to one another

Manicores, Levithans, and Pegasi all have their cargo-rings about the same size, and they look in-game as if they are scaled to one another, which makes sense. However IDA is tiny in comparitive scale, being 180m in length, almost twice that of the Pegasus. And you'd think it would at least be represented as larger than a Valk or Starbridge which are 1/6th its size. The Starliner is the worst, however, as it isn't scaled with anything. At 30m long, is huge on-screen compared to the Terapin and Valk (both 25m) the Starbridge (20m) and the Asteroid Miner (30m). And even though its a Sigma ship, it's not on-scale with them either, the Pegasus being 100m but still with a smaller diameter. Finally, as thedecline noted, given that almost all the other fighter-class ships are comparatively scaled, from Vell-os to Polaris to Auroran to Feds, the Thunderhead (12m) dwarfs them all, especially the Viper, which is only 2 meters shorter.

So no, while it doesn't make sense to have Vipers be 2x2 and Leviathans 100x20 (a scale of 5m per pixel), or to have Vipers 10x10 and Levis 500x100 (1m per pixel), I do think it would be reasonable to have every ship that is 12m, 30m, 100m, or 500m each be scaled relative to every other ship that is 12m, 20m, 100m, and 500m respectively.

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For some the fairest thing
on this dark earth is
Thermopylae and Spartan
Phalanxes low'ring lances

Every ship is scaled to the degree of looking "good". thats about all thats too it. Something thats more fun to look at and use is better then somthing thats just accurate.

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Ecky- ecky- ecky- ecky- pikang- zoop- boing- goodem- zoo- owli- zhiv'
"You are the Messiah!" "No I'm not!" "Yes your are, I should know, I followed a few"
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Quote

Originally posted by ArcAngel Counterstrike:
**The Ares board is over that-a-way.

**

Not just multiplayer option, but a large universe where everyone plays. More like tradewars 2000.

Y'all do realize that almost everything that has been mentioned here (including the cool stuff that Yaga mentioned -- including the Mod Yaga Starbridge) is more than possible using plugins. A s***load of coding, but it would work.

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Suddenly, the little scoutship disappeared and then reappeared right behind the alien warfleet. The gravitic ship's captain hailed the armada. "You are going to be destroyed, but I will give you a choice as to how you want to spend eternity: big pieces, little pieces, or quarks?"
Dead silence.
"Quarks it is, then."

Quote

**
Every ship is scaled to the degree of looking "good". thats about all thats too it. Something thats more fun to look at and use is better then somthing thats just accurate.
**

Very true. I guess I just want it all, baby.

Quote

**
Y'all do realize that almost everything that has been mentioned here (including the cool stuff that Yaga mentioned -- including the Mod Yaga Starbridge) is more than possible using plugins. A s***load of coding, but it would work.
**

I think this is mostly true; the plug-in feature does offer incredible flexibility and can alleviate most of the things mentioned here. The one thing that I don't think a plug-in (or series of plug-ins) could do is allow for dynamic systems based on player actions. So far as I understand, the only way to change availbits (and therefore affect how pers/spobs/chars/etc react to the player's presence) is through missions. The exception to this, ie credits, kills, and legal status, are dynamic based on actions and affect those responses, but that is a) a feature that is harcoded into the engine that plug-ins cannot affect, and precisely the sort of behavior I would love to see extended. Of course, if i am wrong in this, please let me know. Otherwise I agree that plug-ins can alter much of what is available to the player.

------------------
For some the fairest thing
on this dark earth is
Thermopylae and Spartan
Phalanxes low'ring lances

As for scaling there is a cool plug on the add-on section that will work with 1.0.4 its called: small fighters weapons, its on the thrid page if you go under plug-ins. I love it, there is only one flaw the Mod E is not scaled... o well maybe one of you could fix it.

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Save a Tree, Eat a Beaver.

Quote

Originally posted by Yaga:
**I think this is mostly true; the plug-in feature does offer incredible flexibility and can alleviate most of the things mentioned here. The one thing that I don't think a plug-in (or series of plug-ins) could do is allow for dynamic systems based on player actions. So far as I understand, the only way to change availbits (and therefore affect how pers/spobs/chars/etc react to the player's presence) is through missions. The exception to this, ie credits, kills, and legal status, are dynamic based on actions and affect those responses, but that is a) a feature that is harcoded into the engine that plug-ins cannot affect, and precisely the sort of behavior I would love to see extended. Of course, if i am wrong in this, please let me know. Otherwise I agree that plug-ins can alter much of what is available to the player.

**

Yeah, but aren't invisible missions great?

------------------
Suddenly, the little scoutship disappeared and then reappeared right behind the alien warfleet. The gravitic ship's captain hailed the armada. "You are going to be destroyed, but I will give you a choice as to how you want to spend eternity: big pieces, little pieces, or quarks?"
Dead silence.
"Quarks it is, then."