I'm far more inclined to believe the Intro Text above all else. It is setting the stage, without any reason for bias. The fact that the rebels have to do some questionable things to survive and gain their independence means little compared to the exploitation and corruption that we know exists in the Confederation. They are forced to do these things because their oppressors are much more powerful. This does not mean they are the "good guys", but it does not make them the "bad guys". They are the good guys by simple comparison, because the Confederation is corrupt and exploiting the outer worlds.

If you aren't willing to believe the intro text (which must be unbiased as the introduction to the universe you are playing in), then simply look to the Astex corporation and apparent decadence found in the inner worlds. Power leads to corruption, and the fact that a major corporation is heavily involved with the most powerful government can only mean more of it. As for the exploitation, the outer worlds are rich in resources and home to relatively poorer peoples. It does not take much of a leap to believe the wealthy interior worlds took advantage.

Plus, everybody likes the underdog.

I just now noticed your avatar. That's awesome.

Whose, mine?

That, and remember those Diphidia II missions?

David Arthur, on Nov 4 2005, 07:35 AM, said:

They were the outlying and less affluent areas of the galaxy, and the rebels offered them more (perhaps even gave them more, since they weren't necessarily obliged to pay for it the way the Confederation would have been).View Post

Less affluent? I think not...

...just look at Ursa Minor Beta.

Quoth the Ursa Minor Beta desc:

Ursa Minor Beta desc said:

Ursa Minor Beta is a luxury world, full of tourists and wealthy citizens. Their membership in the Rebellion is more a matter of location than of political sympathies.

Outlying is true, but the 'less affluent' part is certainly off the mark.

So because of one planet, the entire statement is wrong.

I think not.

-Bob

The ships are slow in the Confederacy but by my personal experience they are much stronger though. I'm more of a Confederacy guy but that doesn't mean that I agree with what they were doing.

And another thing, who cares what color the ships are? If they can kick your ass then they can color any way that they want to color themselves.

David Arthur, on Nov 2 2005, 09:21 PM, said:

<Über Snip>
View Post

Good points, and once again, excuse my Confederate name mix up. It seems this argument can easily be seen both ways. It all depends on your point of view and definition of "good guys".

I'm still for the Rebels though.

Ryuu said:

Their membership in the Rebellion is more a matter of location than of political sympathies.
...
Outlying is true, but the 'less affluent' part is certainly off the mark.

I was talking about the general conditions, which Ursa Minor certainly doesn't match, but on the other hand, that description doesn't exactly reflect well on the rebellion either, does it?

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Ever play New Horizons? The rebels may be idealistic and kind now, but there is a Total Rebel Domination Factor in the future.

Compared to other huge plug-ins, I thought that this was the most boring I have ever played.

For starters, I'd like to say that I've never had so much fun crushing the rebels and insulting them at the same time. The point you bring up - that the rebels are indeed very evil here, makes me enjoy killing them more than usual. I did so using a Rebel Frigate, which I captured using a Confederate Frigate - which is rigged because the new tech ships have less crew than the old tech ships, which makes capturing capital ships fairly easily. Quite basically I've gone all around rebel space and dominated all their planets.

I pretty much stopped playing the game there, though. Usually when I'm playing a game, I like playing through all the strings that are involved. EVGE is one of my particular favorites, even though the mission strings aren't "done" by any standards, I suppose it's the Aliens that are the star of that plug-in. However, in New Horizons, there's nothing open for you as the Confeds, when, after reading the storyline, feels like the most compelling government you'd want to work for, even if you're a Confed-hater. But...nothing. At least I haven't encountered anything, and looking through the missions, nothing looked Confed-related, though I may be totally blind. I just say this plug is extremely lame, and the only thing worth doing is sacking Rebels.

P.S., since we're on the topic, here's my opinion on the NORMAL game of Confeds VS Rebellion (inspired by New Horizons storyline in a way, but it's quite apparent at that point).

The blame for the Civil War falls on the independants. If the independants don't want to be part of the war, be caught in the crossfire, or be involved in the politics, they should stop trading with the Confederation and the Rebellion. Their support of either side is making a bad situation worse, and the fact that they don't tell off the Confederation is what is giving the Confeds their big heads. The independants are in it for money and power as much as the Confeds are, however, the Confeds can't get their money and power without the independants. The Rebellion can't rebel without the help of trading with the independants. In fact, if they sucked in their stomachs and just stopped all trade with both sides, there would be nothing to fight with and the war would stop. The independants are the only ones to blame. Not the Confederation. Not the Rebellion.

This post has been edited by Verden Leafglow : 04 November 2005 - 06:45 PM

The whole rebelion got started because of three things:

1. The Confederation taxed the colony worlds for raw materials.
2. Pirates attacked the colonies, but the confeds didn't help stop them (not effectively, at least).
3. No or Misreprisentation in Confederate Senate

Reason #1 the future rebels could cope with, after all they knew that the aliens might one day return. Reason #2 was not only annoying, but it threatened their livelyhood. And at any rate, if the Confederates could not protect them from pirates, how much less from the aliens should they return? This effectively destroied their reasoning for going along with #1. #3 was the last straw, they were taxed, poorly defended, and to top it all off they couldn't appeal to the powers that be for reform. This scenario is very much like that which started the Revolutionary War.

So the far colonies cede from the Confederation, and would be content to go their merry own way, except that the good ol' boys in the Senate don't like the rather significant revenue loss caused that was once paid for by the colonies' taxes. The Confeds try to pressure the rebels back in, the rebels say 'sod off'. The Confeds send a fleet to force the rebels into rrejoining, the rebels defend themselves. And before you know it they're officially at war. The Confeds have a financial advantage, the rebels counter by hindering Confed Trade routes. The Confeds start developing new über-weapons, the rebels steal those weapons to stay up-to-date technology-wise. The Confeds start converting industrial waste into weapons, the rebels eliminate the corrupt politicians who comissioned the convertions. Confedes start feling the heat, so they hire astex to make new weapons in exchange for acess to military ordanance--Atex proceeds to dump the wastes into local rebel sypathetic indi. world Diphidia II.

...and so on...

Everything 'bad' the rebels do is the result of a Confederate action, and vice versa. Neither is 'better' than the other, but in my experience the Confedes usually make the first move.

If there was still karma, I'd give some to ~vIsitor~ for that excellent run-down and analysis of the situation.

Give him a negative warn level.

Ace Rimmer, on Nov 3 2005, 01:25 PM, said:

That's possibly because the storyline doesn't really give you enough information to tell, so most of the arguments are based on guesswork.View Post

I don't want to know every little detail to begin with. It's much more fun to discover as the game unfolds.

~vIsitor~, on Nov 4 2005, 02:43 PM, said:

...Neither is 'better' than the other...View Post

Correct. I don't think it's a matter of which is better. I prefer to play for the Rebellion because of what they stand for, and, as mrxak said, they are the underdogs. The great thing is, each side plays as if you are on the "right" side.

The wording on the Confed warships sounds like perhaps they are evil tyrants. They speak of crushing the Rebellion.

On the other hand, the Rebel descs don't say anything about crushing anything.

Doesn't it show how pathetic the Rebels are when you have to search for things to nitpick as pitiful as that?

-Bob

Not really.

Anything in the stock scenario is really fair game.

/me goes about looking for a Rebel-created ecological disaster on an indie world.

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I don't want to know every little detail to begin with. It's much more fun to discover as the game unfolds.

What I meant was that there is very little information about how who are really the good guys, even within the missions strings themselves.

I still vote for the Rebels, partly because even Bob, who seems to know a lot about about arguing, has to search for a while in Scumdog's words to find anything to use against the Rebels while the intro text has a lot bad to say about the Confeds.

That's because Scumdog, being the good chap he is, actually gives you useful information-instead of simply attacking one government over and over again.

-Bob

What about the Artemis Guild? They could just as easily be the good guys as either of the big govts.