Quote
Originally posted by SilverDragon:
Wait... have fun dying, KK. <evil grin> Seriously, though, good luck....
Gee. I guess I'm being too sensitive. But ... I would have "hoped" for some credit for my vote for fairness. (Sniff...) 
- KK
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Courage stands halfway between cowardice and rashness, one of which is a lack, the other an excess of courage." ... Plutarch
Quote
Originally posted by Kaptain Karl:
**Gee. I guess I'm being too sensitive. But ... I would have "hoped" for some credit for my vote for fairness. (Sniff...);)
- KK**
Sorry. <pats KK on the back> Thanks for your fairness. Oh, by the way, our cruiser destroys yours any day.
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-Lyat Esponer Corsair
(This message has been edited by SilverDragon (edited 05-15-2002).)
Quote
Originally posted by Kaptain Karl:
Wow! There's NO WAY I'm gonna try to do those calculations. It hurts my head.
Just be reasonable and do whatever the mods tell you to. That's what I'm doing. Those numbers are so unhip it's a miracle their legs don't fall off. 
SilverDragon, I don't know if you actually have a master plan #whatever. Can I get some detail about this, as I am a close ally of the Confederation? My fleet of Confederation warships will just be around to defend New Providence from the Diphidians, unless you command me otherwise...
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Quote
Originally posted by SilverDragon:
**Frigate = 2 (Destroyer same - Skyblade, I'm watching you )
**
Your cruisers kick the Rebellion, but our standard ships have a major tactical advantage. Speed. That's my kind of warfare.
Destroyers and Frigates should cost the same, but I'm still wondering if even prices for the Rebel and Confederation cruisers are fair. The Rebel cruiser has some sweet advantages in speed, but the Confederation cruiser has considerably better shields and brutal firepower... in an even fight, it will wipe out a Rebel cruiser (unless it's being flown by me ;)).
I agree with what you've said. The Rebellion really needs to be the underdog here as far as resource units are concerned.
Karl: I'll let Mac and SD settle that.
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What are the rules governing the elimination of a government? Is a government eliminated when all players quit? When all of its planets fall? When its capital is captured? When its entire navy is destroyed?
------------------
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Quote
Originally posted by General Rak:
**What are the rules governing the elimination of a government? Is a government eliminated when all players quit? When all of its planets fall? When its capital is captured? When its entire navy is destroyed?
**
I personally think the rule should be once all fleets are destroyed. I, for one, would prefer fighting to the bitter end should my capital be captured...
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Quote
Originally posted by General Rak:
**When all of its planets fall? When its capital is captured? When its entire navy is destroyed?
**
I think it should be all of the above.
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Eviiiillllllldroooommmmmeeee!
Well, since RMA vacated, you now have another Boozerama dockmaster. 
Evildrome has five gray dots and three green ones. What does this mean, and how many ships do I get for my fleet? I'm sorry, I just seem to be really slow at understanding this...
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Quote
Originally posted by asriel:
**Eviiiillllllldroooommmmmeeee!
Well, since RMA vacated, you now have another Boozerama dockmaster.
Evildrome has five gray dots and three green ones. What does this mean, and how many ships do I get for my fleet? I'm sorry, I just seem to be really slow at understanding this...
**
Your defence fleet is 24 units, your offensive fleet is 80 units. I'd suggest using:
Defender = 1/4
Hawk = 1/2
Lightning = 3/4
Rapier = 1
Corvette = 2
Kestrel = 3
You produce 5 (grey) industrial units every 2 pages, and 3 (green) economic units every 2 pages.
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-Lyat Esponer Corsair
Quote
Originally posted by General Rak:
What are the rules governing the elimination of a government? Is a government eliminated when all players quit? When all of its planets fall? When its capital is captured? When its entire navy is destroyed?
I say when its last planet falls only.
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-Lyat Esponer Corsair
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Skyblade:
**Your cruisers kick the Rebellion, but our standard ships have a major tactical advantage. Speed.:p That's my kind of warfare.
Destroyers and Frigates should cost the same, but I'm still wondering if even prices for the Rebel and Confederation cruisers are fair. The Rebel cruiser has some sweet advantages in speed, but the Confederation cruiser has considerably better shields and brutal firepower... in an even fight, it will wipe out a Rebel cruiser (unless it's being flown by me ;)).
I agree with what you've said. The Rebellion really needs to be the underdog here as far as resource units are concerned.
Karl: I'll let Mac and SD settle that.**
Well, I'll regret this, but...
A recent survey showed that the Confed Cruiser beats the Rebel Cruiser 20 out of 20 times, with an average of 38% shield remaining. The Confed Frigate beat the Rebel Destroyer 9 out of 20 times, with the Destroy winning 8 times and 3 cases where both ships were destroyed (these ships are equal, the slight difference was probably fluked). The Manta beat the Patrol Ship 9 out of 20 times to 6 out of 20 times, with 5 cases where both ships were destroyed. So going down from size: Confed superior, equal, Rebel superior.
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-Lyat Esponer Corsair
Quote
Originally posted by SilverDragon:
**Your defence fleet is 24 units, your offensive fleet is 80 units. I'd suggest using:
Defender = 1/4
Hawk = 1/2
Lightning = 3/4
Rapier = 1
Corvette = 2
Kestrel = 3
You produce 5 (grey) industrial units every 2 pages, and 3 (green) economic units every 2 pages.
**
Thank you to someone finally giving a comprehensible response. Time to make a fleet...
Flagship - Corvette, Spider Queen
Upgrades:
-2 Laser Turrets
-All Missiles
+3 Proton Turrets
+8 Rockets
+3 Javelin Pods
+150 Javelin Rockets
Fleet:
15 Corvettes (30 dots)
35 Lightnings (26.25 dots)
20 Rapiers (20 dots)
We'll call it 3.5 dots for the flagship.
Total: 79.75
Defense fleet:
10 Rapiers (10 dots)
7 Corvettes (14 dots)
Total: 20
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wait, are you saying that I get only 1 dot for my starting fleet???????
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(Insert Clever Remark Here)
Quote
Originally posted by BariSaxGuy5:
???????
Watch out, everybody! Here comes Bari's fleet ... of two Defenders!!! (tee-hee!)
- KK
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Courage stands halfway between cowardice and rashness, one of which is a lack, the other an excess of courage." ... Plutarch
Quote
Originally posted by General Rak:
What are the rules governing the elimination of a government? Is a government eliminated when all players quit? When all of its planets fall? When its capital is captured? When its entire navy is destroyed?
When the government surrenders. You get to work it out for yourselves. Having a hard rule on that has caused problems in the past (coughBFS IIIcough), and it seems more reasonable to allow negotiation on that as in real life. I suppose we could agree that all players quitting is probably tantamount to surrender, though.
Quote
Originally posted by BariSaxGuy5:
wait, are you saying that I get only 1 dot for my starting fleet???????
Um, no, ten points, actually. But then, I only get ten, too. Don't worry, we'll get through it. Trust me. Also, with that few points, you could probably quite easily apply the fudge rule and get a free flagship, or something similar, to compensate for low points.
asriel: Actually, by taking a pirate system, I would probably make you pirate king, which gives you all 4 Pirate systems. Which is good, since SD got a bit confused on your starting units (it's lower, not both, times ten, remember?) However, with all Pirate systems, you actually get ninety units for fleets. Please divide it into a couple of fleets, the one you had for 80 is really a bit big for a single fleet.
Now, SD:
my official count on current points for Rebels and Confeds is 34/52, 30/51, respectively. I did find it odd myself that the Rebels had higher, and in fact have already been through once to deliberately look for excuses to max out Confed points and minimize Rebel points. I do have a couple other ideas that surfaced recently, which I'll be implementing shortly before starting later today. Don't really expect anything over equality at best, however. If you think it's bad now, you should have seen my original figures, which were like 39/54, 26/50 or similar. The main thing that's hurting is that the Rebels control something like twice as many systems - you do only have 15.
As for defence fleets: It will be tough to work out moving those around. Your defence fleets are, basically, the fleets that rise up when the player demands tribute from the planet in the game. Those really aren't mobile. You might be able to work something out there, but I'd prefer if you didn't... could you e-mail me any ideas you have before using them? I'm using a classic concept from this board that runs through something like half a dozen stories, and doesn't allow for them to be mobile at all. I consider it a serious concession on my part to even consider letting them leave their home systems, as that becomes extremely complex to keep track of and circumvents the purpose for which they exist, which is to prevent people from picking on their world. However, I will try to be reasonable.
Also, paying for fighters on cruisers was dropped when I brought back two point ships, so Confed Cruisers are three, as are both Rebel Cruisers and Kestrels. And remember, those values you suggest for fighters aren't fixed. Everything is mutable to a certain extent, that being limited by the common sense rule.
One other thing - industrial units aren't produced every two pages, they link to the planet and regenerate when needed, basically, as long as it stays reasonable. My suggested rule of thumb on that is once per page. You'll note that there are far more economic than industrial points available, so they should come back more often, or we'll all be flooded with useless money.
I'll be starting as soon as I try to balance the map a bit again and finish my first post.
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- Macavenger | e-mail: (url="http://"mailto:e-gamerguy1@attbi.com")mailto:e-gamerguy1@attbi.com(/url)e-gamerguy1@attbi.com
Mac: Can you make it so that no one can attack until either everyone has posted or two days have elapsed? This would really help tone down those early deathblows.
coughBfS-IIIcough
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Quote
Originally posted by General Rak:
**Mac: Can you make it so that no one can attack until either everyone has posted or two days have elapsed? This would really help tone down those early deathblows.
coughBfS-IIIcough
**
Good idea. How about no one who hasn't posted can be attacked?
Also, I fixed the map. By being significantly more liberal with Centauri and esp. Sol, I've boosted the Confed total points to 35/53, giving them a one point advantage in each catagory. Sorry, but that's the best I can do without totally corrupting the system I used to work this stuff out.
/goes to finish initial post
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Quote
Originally posted by Macavenger:
**Good idea. How about no one who hasn't posted can be attacked?
**
Sure. /me thinks of all of the strategic possibilities
BTW- You may want to slightly up the economic points on Sirius. It seems to be a center of commerce.
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10 Points Industry:
4 Bulk freighters (4 Points?)
8 Lightnings 6 Pointies
Sound good?
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(Insert Clever Remark Here)
Darn. Making the Rebel and Confederation cruiser equal in price is really going to tip the scales... against the Rebellion. The 'Fed Cruiser is really the ultimate warship, and has quite an advantage over its main adversary.
Most of your stats sound about right SD, although my test of the Rebel Destroyer and Confederation Frigate turned out a little differently. Twenty attemps, the RD winning fourteen of them (wish I had a QT movie to prove it). Twice both ships were lost. Since the RD has superior turn and speed, it usually gets the first secondary off. It also has much better shield recharge. In some ways, I think the RD should cost a touch more than the CF, but I'll remain content with the current listings.
We'll have your junkboats for lunch.
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