I've been noticing a little bit of debate about the Confed/Rebel Cruiser arugment, and I though it would be best to make a topic for it. Here is my take:

The Rebel Cruiser Pros: Faster speed/turning/accel, and can be used at the fullest of it's abilities as a hit and run ship, and also as a ship that hangs out on the edge of a fight, swooping in occasionaly to fire it's turrets and guns. It's fighters deploy much quicker.
Rebel Cruiser Cons: It has less firepower, less sheilding, and less upgrade space. I think the fuel capicity is the same.

Confed Cruiser Pros: It has a lot of sheilding, proton turrets and more firepower. It is at the best of it's ability in the midst of a fight, as it's many turrets and missles are a threat. More upgrade space.
Confed Cruiser Cons: It's much slower, takes forever to turn and accelerate, and it's fighters take longer to deploy.

Let the debate begin.

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"He who fights one fights the other"- Wise Man Jimbob
|(url="http://"http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thepalshiferebelhideout")The Palshife Rebel Hideout (/url) |(url="http://"http://www.EVula.com") EVula's Lair(/url)

Heck, we already know which ship is better.

Rebel Cruiser all the way. Not only does its appearance makes the 'Fed counterpart look like a piece of garbage, but it handles like a light capital vessel. Sheesh, once you upgrade the thing, it's more than a match for a Confederation Cruiser...

I also can't stand the incredibly slow shield recharge rate of the Confederation Cruiser. The Rebel Cruiser's recharge rate certainly isn't fast either, but a big improvement.

And, I like those Mantas.

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(url="http://"http://saberstudios.evula.net")Saber Studios(/url) - Your source for original EV/O/N graphics.
GameRanger: -Sß- Captain Skyblade | Battle.net: Skyblade86
(url="http://"http://home.cfl.rr.com/aresev/")The Legion(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.gameranger.com")GameRanger(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.evula.com/")EVula's Lair(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.meowx.com/")Meowx Design(/url)

I don't fly either cruiser very often, but here's my viewpoint.

The rebel cruiser is faster than its Confederation counterpart, but it's still not fast enough to win anything with its speed. Its fighters deploy more quickly, but they aren't as effective as the CR-1095's patrol ships. So, it comes down to shielding, firepower, and crew value (for capturing escorts), all of which favour the CR-1095. For that matter, the Confederation cruiser has a much more efficient and interesting design than the aggressive-looking rebel ship.

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David Arthur
(url="http://"http://members.aol.com/darthur1/talon-ev/")Talon Plugin for the original Escape Velocity(/url)
(url="http://"http://members.aol.com/darthur1/mc/")An Upcoming EV Override Mission Editor(/url)

(This message has been edited by David Arthur (edited 12-06-2001).)

Quote

Originally posted by David Arthur:
**I don't fly either cruiser very often, but here's my viewpoint.

The Rebel Cruiser is faster than the Confederation Cruiser, but it's still not fast enough to win anything with its speed. Its fighters deploy more quickly, but they aren't as effective as the CR-1095's patrol ships. So, it comes down to shielding, firepower, and crew value (for capturing escorts), all of which favour the CR-1095.

**

Of course, if both ships were controlled by real players, we know the Confederation Cruiser's sluggish speed would become an issue. /me continues to think about creating a good net EV plugin for Ares/

Manta and Patrol fights are always extrememly even. In fact, during the last few fights I've seen between even numbers of the fighters, the Manta(s) have won. Laser cannons are slightly more powerful than proton cannons, and the Manta carries swivel versions of the laser. Much faster as well.

Oh yeah, this is a cruiser debate. I usually don't fly cruisers as well... I stick to my trusty Rebel Destroyer.

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(url="http://"http://saberstudios.evula.net")Saber Studios(/url) - Your source for original EV/O/N graphics.
GameRanger: -Sß- Captain Skyblade | Battle.net: Skyblade86
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I think it all depends on who is flying it, the player or the AI, and if you put upgrades on it. An intelligent player can use either the Rebel or Confed Cruiser and make it extremely deadly and capable of killing the opposite cruiser. Personally I have more luck with Rebel Cruiser. It's speed, accel, and manuever is far superior, and in my opinion the mantas are better than the confed patrol ships. Also, with some added upgrades, the Rebel Cruiser can easily beat the Confed Cruiser one on one.

-Wire

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He would, after all, be an ambassador; between the old and the new-between the creatures of carbon and the creatures of metal who must one day supersede them.
-a quote from Arthur C Clarke's short story, "A Meeting With Medusa

Has anyone here performed an AI-to-AI test to see which cruiser (complete with fighters, of course) would win out?

I think I will. Sounds like fun.

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world keeps turning

There is an ares version of EV already, all the ships were remodeled by my good friend KMQ.

for info: (url="http://"http://ambrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=ares&category;=scenarios&display;=rating&file;=EVNet.sit")http://ambrosiaSW.co...&file=EVNet.sit(/url)

Chamrin

Quote

Originally posted by Phil Barron:
**Has anyone here performed an AI-to-AI test to see which cruiser (complete with fighters, of course) would win out?

I think I will. Sounds like fun.

**

I haven't performed one, but I have witnessed a battle between them. The Confed always wins. and I mean always. Although I hate to say it, but it's true.

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Sing us a song, you're the piano man
Sing us a song tonight
Well, we're all in the mood for a melody
And you've got us feelin' alright

Quote

Originally posted by Chamrin:
**There is an ares version of EV already, all the ships were remodeled by my good friend KMQ.

for info: http://ambrosiaSW.co...&category=scena rios&display;=rating&file;=EVNet.sit://http://ambrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/vftp/...&file;=EVNet.sit://http://ambrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/vftp/...&file;=EVNet.sit://http://ambrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/vftp/...&file;=EVNet.sit

Chamrin**

I'm very familiar with EVnet... I've had it for about four months, and although the graphics are good, the plugin isn't that great. :frown: The ships are so whoppin large, it causes double to triple the lag you would normally get...

I'm thinking about taking the original EV ship sprites, and re-coloring the backgrounds for use in an Ares EV plugin. With Ambrosia's permission, of course...

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(url="http://"http://saberstudios.evula.net")Saber Studios(/url) - Your source for original EV/O/N graphics.
GameRanger: -Sß- Captain Skyblade | Battle.net: Skyblade86
(url="http://"http://home.cfl.rr.com/aresev/")The Legion(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.gameranger.com")GameRanger(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.evula.com/")EVula's Lair(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.meowx.com/")Meowx Design(/url)

So it'd be like a one on one fighting sim with EV?

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"He who fights one fights the other"- Wise Man Jimbob
|(url="http://"http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thepalshiferebelhideout")The Palshife Rebel Hideout (/url) |(url="http://"http://www.EVula.com") EVula's Lair(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by Jimbob:
**So it'd be like a one on one fighting sim with EV?

**

Exactly. All the ship graphics would be identical to those of the original Escape Velocity, only placed into Ares. In short, a multiplayer version of EV...

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(url="http://"http://saberstudios.evula.net")Saber Studios(/url) - Your source for original EV/O/N graphics.
GameRanger: -Sß- Captain Skyblade | Battle.net: Skyblade86
(url="http://"http://home.cfl.rr.com/aresev/")The Legion(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.gameranger.com")GameRanger(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.evula.com/")EVula's Lair(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.meowx.com/")Meowx Design(/url)

I may actually play Ares then.

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(url="http://"http://www.evula.com/")EVula,(/url) your friendly (url="http://"http://www.evula.com/")self-promoting(/url) EV & EVO Boards/Addon/Newswire/Chronicles moderator
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I'd rather not use either ship, but maneuverability being "trump" for me, Rebel Cruiser.

- KK

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Courage stands halfway between cowardice and rashness, one of which is a lack, the other an excess of courage." ... Plutarch

Quote

Originally posted by EVula:
**I may actually play Ares then.;)

**

Heh. I've gotta admit that while I do think Escape Velocity has the better gameplay, Ares certainly has the better, more powerful engine for plugin developers.

As the plugin idea, do you think I should make it a go?

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(url="http://"http://saberstudios.evula.net")Saber Studios(/url) - Your source for original EV/O/N graphics.
GameRanger: -Sß- Captain Skyblade | Battle.net: Skyblade86
(url="http://"http://home.cfl.rr.com/aresev/")The Legion(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.gameranger.com")GameRanger(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.evula.com/")EVula's Lair(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.meowx.com/")Meowx Design(/url)

Yes. I see no objection, and it gives me an excuse to play another ambrosia game.

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"He who fights one fights the other"- Wise Man Jimbob
|(url="http://"http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thepalshiferebelhideout")The Palshife Rebel Hideout (/url) |(url="http://"http://www.EVula.com") EVula's Lair(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by Jimbob:
**Yes. I see no objection, and it gives me an excuse to play another ambrosia game.

**

I'm eager to get started on the plugin, I just want to make sure that copyright laws don't cause any problems. I'm sure if I give Ambrosia Software complete credit for the graphics, it shouldn't be any big deal.

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(url="http://"http://saberstudios.evula.net")Saber Studios(/url) - Your source for original EV/O/N graphics.
GameRanger: -Sß- Captain Skyblade | Battle.net: Skyblade86
(url="http://"http://home.cfl.rr.com/aresev/")The Legion(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.gameranger.com")GameRanger(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.evula.com/")EVula's Lair(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.meowx.com/")Meowx Design(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by EVula:
**I may actually play Ares then.;)

**

You took the words right out of my mouth, and I want them back.

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And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.
George Harrison, 1943-2001

Quote

Originally posted by Captain Skyblade:
I'm eager to get started on the plugin, I just want to make sure that copyright laws don't cause any problems. I'm sure if I give Ambrosia Software complete credit for the graphics, it shouldn't be any big deal.

Yeah, I use Ambrosia's graphics in my shipyard; I've yet to have any problems with that, since I make sure that no one thinks I own the copyrights. While they retain all copyrights, I serisously doubt they'd have a problem with you using their graphics for one of their games; it would be kinda counter-productive.

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(url="http://"http://www.evula.com/")EVula,(/url) your friendly (url="http://"http://www.evula.com/")self-promoting(/url) EV & EVO Boards/Addon/Newswire/Chronicles moderator
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How did this turn into an EV vs. Ares debate? Oh well, back on topic...

Quote

Originally posted by David Arthur:
**The rebel cruiser is faster than its Confederation counterpart, but it's still not fast enough to win anything with its speed.

Perhaps not fast enough, but the maneuverability - not speed - is what wins for it. The Confed Cruiser turns and accelerates so slowly that I have trouble dodging anything in it, be it a ship or weapons fire, and the speed is so poor that I can't run away effectively either. The Rebel Cruiser isn't the best on maneuverability (This has a lot to do with why the Rebel Destroyer is so good), but it's a huge improvement. The speed is also sufficient to run away from many fights. Despite the extra shielding, I find I die much more frequently in the Confed Cruiser. Besides which, the CR-1095 handles so poorly that it just isn't fun to fly, IMO. In a game, that's really the bottom line, isn't it?

Its fighters deploy more quickly, but they aren't as effective as the CR-1095's patrol ships.

I find there to be little practical difference between Mantas and Patrol Ships, but in the fights that do result in a decision, I find it's almost always in favor of the Manta.

So, it comes down to shielding, firepower, and crew value (for capturing escorts), all of which favour the CR-1095. For that matter, the Confederation cruiser has a much more efficient and interesting design than the aggressive-looking rebel ship.**

The firepower is close enough. They carry the same number of Proton Turrets, which are by far my most used weapon. Shielding and Crew value are certainly much better, but I find those differences don't make up for the Cruiser's deficiencies. As for looks, I like the design of the Rebel Cruiser better, though the graphics of both in the game could perhaps be best described as uninspired. Perhaps my opinion would be different if I had access to the 1.0.5b1 Graphics file you've mentioned where the Confed Cruiser has been retextured.

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- Macavenger | e-mail: (url="http://"mailto:e-gamerguy1@attbi.com")mailto:e-gamerguy1@attbi.com(/url)e-gamerguy1@attbi.com

Quote

Originally posted by Captain Skyblade:
**
Sheesh, once you upgrade the thing, it's more than a match for a Confederation Cruiser...
**

You're comparing a stock Confed Cruiser piloted by the AI, to an upgraded Rebel cruiser piloted by a human.

I like Mantas too.

Quote

Originally posted by Phil Barron:
**
Has anyone here performed an AI-to-AI test to see which cruiser (complete with fighters, of course) would win out?**

I have. The Confed cruiser won 3 out 5 battles.

Quote

Originally posted by Captain Skyblade:
**As the plugin idea, do you think I should make it a go?
**

Go for it!

(This message has been edited by Blackdog (edited 12-06-2001).)