Quote

Originally posted by spl_cadet:
**Hello Rak. If you notice, the pirates now have rather good ships. This means that your ass is mine. And I don't have to cheat to do it:D
**

buzzer

Sorry, unless he has strong objections, Rak is slated to start on the Eastern front, fighting the Aliens. So actually, it's more like, your ass is mine , as I'm starting on the Western front. I strongly question your ability to outduel General Rak tactically anyway.

I seems to be all quiet on the Western front now though, since there's only one fleet there.

Quote

Originally posted by Kaptain Karl:
**Mac, nice job on the maps and shipyards. I really like our pirate systems being GOLD. Arrgh! Pirates like gold, Aye Matey!

Homepage Change Request: Could you make the "SHIPYARD" label on the main page gold, like our systems? That would be cool. Thanks.**

Actually, it's orange. But I might consider that. Right now, I've got the Shipyard logos matched to the general theme color of the ships, which for HC and Pirates is gray. But I suppose I could swap that to Map colors, or something similar. I'll consider it.

Quote

Originally posted by Jimbob:
Mac, i couldn't help but notice you slip "this space left intentionally blank" into the legend...;)

Yeah, well, I don't have the graphics for the most powerful Dreden ship yet, so I can't put the fleet icon there. I figured that would suffice as a temp.

Quote

Originally posted by Cyber-Dragon:
**Mac- There seems to be a bug with the Homepage. Yes, I have Netscape. 4.7, to be exact. I've had no problems before, and the bookmark (favorite, for all you IE types) hasn't gone screwy. You may be working on it at the time of this post, so if this is true, void the last paragraph.
One last note: Before it was down, I looked at the Homepage's map, and it said something about "fleet mapping," or something along those lines. Is this some little applet you cooked up, or is Ethel just playing with me? **

I don't know what to make of that, exactly. You really need IE to look at the map, because I don't have enough html knowledge to do that with Netscape. All the code is STCAEIAYSF (See the code and edit it as you see fit, i.e. BBEdit ), not WYSIWYG, so while I could reoptimize the images to line up in Netscape, I can't fix most of it's oddness that I'm seeing with image maps and such. I also don't know what this "fleet mapping" is, and I wasn't working on the page then, though it looks fine to me now.
I hate IE myself BTW, I'm an OmniWeb person.

Quote

Originally posted by Azdara Ace:
Mac, do you think that I should take some initiative and make some more Dreden ships without being told what to make by Captain Skyblade?

Sure, you could make a design or two for him, and then let him pick from those, maybe with some slight modifications or something. I dunno.

------------------
- Macavenger | e-mail: (url="http://"mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com")mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com(/url)e-gamerguy1@home.com

I really don't feel so well... anyways, David Arthur being a nuetral moderator would be awsome! That would probably keep it very clean, and very little arugments. I hope he does go ahead with it, as 13 karma helping out around can't be all bad. I'm repreating myself, aren't I? night...

------------------
Ni!!!!
(url="http://"http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thepalshiferebelhideout") |The Palshife Rebel Hideout (/url) |(url="http://"http://www.EVula.com") EVula's Lair|(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by Macavenger:
**buzzer

Sorry, unless he has strong objections, Rak is slated to start on the Eastern front, fighting the Aliens. So actually, it's more like, your ass is mine , as I'm starting on the Western front. I strongly question your ability to outduel General Rak tactically anyway.
**

Too bad, I had looked forward to a challenge this time around. But I guess I can toy with you before I destroy your fleet, that may provide some amusement

------------------
(url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs3/")BFSIII Homepage(/url)
"The tyranny of the Human Confederacy shall not last long. Soon, the tyrants will be overthrown and a new age will be proclaimed!" Chieftain spl_cadet shorty before the Great Offensive.

(This message has been edited by spl_cadet (edited 11-11-2001).)

Quote

Originally posted by spl_cadet:
**Too bad, I had looked forward to a challenge this time around. But I guess I can toy with you before I destroy your fleet, that may provide some amusement:p
**

*Mac drops the tactical planning book he's assembled on spl_cadet, and it's incredible weight squashes him flat *

Besides, Rak may still end up on the Western Front, so you Pirates may have to face both of us. I don't think you'd survive long.

I've also posted a rules page on the Homepage (see link in sig). Just read the disclaimer on the homepage before you panic about them. Most of the new stuff is designed to contain some of the massive confusion in BfS II, and I am still open to changing things.

Also fixed a few more cosmetic details with this update. I think everything is fully up to date now. I also expect to post a couple of fleets tomorrow, which should make things a bit more interesting.

------------------
- Macavenger | e-mail: (url="http://"mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com")mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com(/url)e-gamerguy1@home.com

Where do we stand on customizable ships? I just finished off reading the rules Mac made on his site, then reviewed the shipyard, and wondered if it was allowed for our particular flagships to be modified? Although I am now begining to see that this may be a bad idea, I suppose it is worth considering.

------------------
Apply When Wet

Erk. Spl, you probably don't want to up against Rak. He'd whip you...well. Mac, since you start on the western front, have fun taking on four Pirate fleets.

------------------
"Life's a bitch, but she's my bitch." -- Phoenix

The only thing I have a problem with is the idea that if the capital is captured, the entire government is destroyed. What would happen to the players of that government? Would they be allowed to join a different government? Or could they start a resistance movement? I think the rule would be better off as the capital captured and all enemy fleets destroyed would result in the destruction of the government. Also, would it be possible for governments to sign peace treaties in the middle of the game? Say, for example, the war against the aliens is going bad over in the Sentarus galaxy. The HC knows that if the Dreden fell to the aliens the HC would lose the war against the aliens. But they can't send anymore fleets over there without suffering heavy losses from the pirates. So they sign a peace treaty, perhaps handing over several systems, and the pirates and HC are no longer at war. This could be modified so that it expires after X number of pages as well.

------------------
(url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs3/")BFSIII Homepage(/url)
"The tyranny of the Human Confederacy shall not last long. Soon, the tyrants will be overthrown and a new age will be proclaimed!" Chieftain spl_cadet shortly before the Great Offensive.

Quote

Originally posted by ZenMastaT:
**Where do we stand on customizable ships? I just finished off reading the rules Mac made on his site, then reviewed the shipyard, and wondered if it was allowed for our particular flagships to be modified? Although I am now begining to see that this may be a bad idea, I suppose it is worth considering.

**

ZenMastaT, in all likelihood, my flagship will probably end up as a Macross. Do you really want to go up against one of those that was modified for even more weaponry? I thought not.

------------------
(url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs3/")BFSIII Homepage(/url)
"The tyranny of the Human Confederacy shall not last long. Soon, the tyrants will be overthrown and a new age will be proclaimed!" Chieftain spl_cadet shortly before the Great Offensive.

Rules Clarification Post: It is LONG. That's life.

Capturing an unoccupied system is the only time when single post battles are allowed. If you enter an enemy system and no enemy fleets are present, just announce your attack and battle the defense fleet. Follow the guidelines on defense fleet size above. This follows about the same rules as for regular combat, except that the attacker decides what kind of fleet he faces and how to deal with it. Try to be as fair as you can in this.

Conceptually, I like this. It will require some thought on the part of any attackers to create the defense fleet they are fighting.

But I have a question, Mac.... Just above this copy/pasted portion you said a "regular" system has a defense fleet of 50MM credits. Does this mean Altair, which in standard EV is unihabited, has such a defense fleet??? I think an uninhabited system should have a "bare bones" fleet, like in EV.

When attacking an occupied system, you have to get past both the defense fleet and the enemy fleet in the system. The defender can choose to call up reinforcements from the planet to assist his fleet, or try to eliminate the enemy fleet himself and save the defenders for in case the enemy pentrates his fleet. The disadvantage to calling reinforcements isthat the defense fleet may be drained somewhat by battle damage. There's no way to assign a fixed value to that, so it will be decided on a case by case basis in game, if this comes up.

My initial reaction was to try to defeat this rule. ...As I think about it, though, it is an intriguing twist from II:
a) It will help enforce the "no one post battles" rule. The attacker never knows when (during the battle) the defender will call out the system's defense fleet.
Attackers will be forced to be more balanced. (No more "the defenders were so surprised the attacker wiped out all 6 Carriers with three Destroyers..." kind of battles.)
c) I only wonder if this III twist will create more arguments.... (I'm so glad I am not a Mod in these BFS stories...!)

Finally, to prevent mass chaos as was seen in Battle for Sol II, no fleet may capture more than one system per topic page.

Okay... but this will really slow down the story. In II we had times where it took two Real Time days for a story page to finish. This rule could have the effect of making III boring....

...Additionally, military outposts cannot be captured, but if their defense fleet is defeated, the attacking fleet can destroy the outpost and cause the system to revert to uninhabited status, and can then build it's own outpost if desired.

Man! I'm glad I'm not a Mod!!!

(David, if I were you I'd decline the Mod role.) III will have more battles on the Discussion thread than on the Story thread.

(That reminds me, Mac. You may want to add in the Rules that disagreements are handled in "Discussion". That really did help keep the Story "cleaner" in II....)

- KK

------------------
Courage stands halfway between cowardice and rashness, one of which is a lack, the other an excess of courage." ... Plutarch

Quote

But I have a question, Mac.... Just above this copy/pasted portion you said a "regular" system has a defense fleet of 50MM credits. Does this mean Altair, which in standard EV is unihabited, has such a defense fleet??? I think an uninhabited system should have a "bare bones" fleet, like in EV.

A regular world means a non-core world world. It is still inhabited. Altair wouldn't have a defense fleet as there is nothing in it.
And what is so bad about the military outposts that would cause a lot of fights?
Question of my own: If a fleet is defending a planet that is attacked by another fleet, who decides the make up of the planet's defense fleet? Wouldn't it be more logical to have the defending fleet decide the make up of the planet's defense fleet?

------------------
(url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs3/")BFSIII Homepage(/url)
"The tyranny of the Human Confederacy shall not last long. Soon, the tyrants will be overthrown and a new age will be proclaimed!" Chieftain spl_cadet shortly before the Great Offensive.

Quote

Originally posted by Lord Asriel:
Mac, since you start on the western front, have fun taking on four Pirate fleets.;)

One of you may get moved, but I'm not going to do that all on my own. Besides, I'll have help.

Quote

Originally posted by ZenMastaT:
Where do we stand on customizable ships?

There was a limited amount of that in II, but I think for simplicity's sake, it would be best not to. spl_cadet has a good point too, just remember that you might end up in the west now, Zen, depending on where Rak decides he wants to go. Depending on what spl tried to do with a modified Macross, that might create problems in my massive tac book, too.

Quote

Originally posted by spl_cadet:
The only thing I have a problem with is the idea that if the capital is captured, the entire government is destroyed. What would happen to the players of that government? Would they be allowed to join a different government? Or could they start a resistance movement?

That's a very important aspect that I haven't worked out in detail yet. You have to know first that if the capital falls, you're going to be pretty dead regardless, given all the protections for it. When it's movable with a 500 million defense fleet, plus likely reinforcements from any surviving fleets if it gets in danger, it'll probably take two full strength fleets to capture one. A government that can let a force that big penetrate that far is probably screwed anyway. I'm open to suggestions for what to do about the players, though. That's one aspect I'm not 100% comfortable with. We never really reached a victory/loss situation in BfS II.

Peace treaties sound Ok, that would be worked out in game on a case by case basis, of course.

Quote

Originally posted by Kaptain Karl:
Does this mean Altair, which in standard EV is unihabited, has such a defense fleet???

No. Like spl_cadet said, uninhabited systems don't have a fleet. Also, they don't produce tax revenue and cannot be captured. The white systems are just places fleets can move through, otherwise, ignore them.

I should mention that in Sentarus, the UMS-#### systems haven't been thoroughly explored by the Aliens, and scouting those out might unveil a new jumplink or two. I'm not up to any new systems, I don't think, but there might be a hidden shortcut here and there.
<cryptic grin>

Quote

Originally posted by Kaptain Karl:
but this will really slow down the story. In II we had times where it took two Real Time days for a story page to finish. This rule could have the effect of making III boring

I don't think so. We have more players in BfS III, which should make more posts and faster topics. The pirates were the only ones who would have broken this rule much had it existed in II. I'll admit the Aliens did once or twice also. The main point of this is to prevent the "And then it happened. Karl took over the galaxy and declared himself KING" type of scenario.

Also, what so divisive about the Military outposts? I don't see a lot of problems there. Military outposts would be stations, not colony planets, and not really compatible between one government and the next. With the defense already destroyed, an empty military outpost probably wouldn't do a lot of good anyway, since I expect they would generally be established in enemy territory.

Quote

Originally posted by spl_cadet:
If a fleet is defending a planet that is attacked by another fleet, who decides the make up of the planet's defense fleet? Wouldn't it be more logical to have the defending fleet decide the make up of the planet's defense fleet?

Oops, forgot that part. Yeah, if a defending fleet calls up the planetary defense forces, they decide the fleet.

Couple other minor things I forgot: No skipping through systems with an enemy fleet present. Going through enemy systems is fine, but if you go through a system with an enemy fleet present, they get a chance to engage. Alright?
Also, there was an incident in BfS II where the pirates captured a system, left, and then Rak came and recaptured it immediately with the assumption that no defense fleet would have arrived. Shall we say that a planet doesn't get anew defense fleet when captured until the end of the topic page?

------------------
- Macavenger | e-mail: (url="http://"mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com")mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com(/url)e-gamerguy1@home.com

Quote

Originally posted by Azdara Ace:
**Mac, do you think that I should take some initiative and make some more Dreden ships without being told what to make by Captain Skyblade?

**

Bah, go right ahead. You're right about the busy part, time to post on the forums has been hard to come by. And when I do get free time, I usually post at the Ares forums first...

Make whatever ships you want. In terms of appearance, that's your call. A heavy warship and carrier is really the only other additional Dreden ships I had in mind...

------------------
(url="http://"http://saberstudios.evula.net")Saber Studios(/url) - Your source for original EV/O/N graphics.
the Confederation Graphics Expansion Set: Coming soon
(url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/alien_invaders/main.html")Alien Invaders(/url) | (url="http://"http://home.cfl.rr.com/aresev/")The Legion(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.evula.com/")EVula's Lair(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.meowx.com/")Meowx Design(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by Captain Skyblade:
**Bah, go right ahead. You're right about the busy part, time to post on the forums has been hard to come by. And when I do get free time, I usually post at the Ares forums first...

Make whatever ships you want. In terms of appearance, that's your call. A heavy warship and carrier is really the only other additional Dreden ships I had in mind...
**

Could you perhaps go aheqad and post stats for the last three ships (Battlegunship thing that already has a pic, heavy cruiser and carrier), and then Azdara Ace can make them as he gets time?

------------------
- Macavenger | e-mail: (url="http://"mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com")mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com(/url)e-gamerguy1@home.com

So is Friday a good day to start?

------------------
(url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs3/")BFSIII Homepage(/url)
"The tyranny of the Human Confederacy shall not last long. Soon, the tyrants will be overthrown and a new age will be proclaimed!" Chieftain spl_cadet shortly before the Great Offensive.

I'm fine with Friday. Too bad it's not my decision. :redface: Just out of curiosity, does Captain Skyblade have the highest post count? If not, who has more?

------------------
Ni!!!!
(url="http://"http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thepalshiferebelhideout") |The Palshife Rebel Hideout (/url) |(url="http://"http://www.EVula.com") EVula's Lair|(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by Jimbob:
**Just out of curiosity, does Captain Skyblade have the highest post count? If not, who has more?
**

andrew.

As for BfS III here, we'll start when we're ready. This week would be nice. I'm going to try to get a weapons yard up today, an aside from that, about all we need is fleets from everyone and the rest of the Dreden technology. So, start posting fleets!

As for realigning players: We've got 4 active Pirates (Asriel, spl, KK, Jager), 5 active HC (myself, Moose, Corey, Zen, GR), 3 active aliens (Shade, RC, Dragon), and 4 active Dreden (Skyblade, Crusader(he's around, just haven't seen him here much), Azdara Ace, Jimbob). If anyone else is reading this and wants to be involved at the start, speak up soon. Assuming those numbers are correct, I'd say we need 1 pirate and one Dreden player to transfer to the Aliens, so that way we have a 3-5-5-3 balance, which seems fair. I'll take volunteers, but fairly soon I'm just going to have to pick a couple.

------------------
- Macavenger | e-mail: (url="http://"mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com")mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com(/url)e-gamerguy1@home.com

Enlist NOW!The Empire Needs YOU!

------------------
(url="http://"http://www.geocities.com/shades_shipyard")Shade's Shipyard(/url), the source for your ship needs.

Why would we need a 3-5-5-3 balance? Why not have a 4-4-4-4 balance? Transfer one HC to Alien and then the governments would be balanced equally with no one complaining.

------------------
(url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs3/")BFSIII Homepage(/url)
"The tyranny of the Human Confederacy shall not last long. Soon, the tyrants will be overthrown and a new age will be proclaimed!" Chieftain spl_cadet shortly before the Great Offensive.

Quote

Originally posted by spl_cadet:
**Why would we need a 3-5-5-3 balance? Why not have a 4-4-4-4 balance? Transfer one HC to Alien and then the governments would be balanced equally with no one complaining.
**

Because the Aliens and HC have to fight two governments each, which means they need more players. Also, they're the biggest, so it makes sense that they would have a larger military.

------------------
- Macavenger | e-mail: (url="http://"mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com")mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com(/url)e-gamerguy1@home.com

Quote

Originally posted by Macavenger:
**Because the Aliens and HC have to fight two governments each, which means they need more players. Also, they're the biggest, so it makes sense that they would have a larger military.
**

If you actually expect either the HC or the Aliens to have enough fleets available to dispatch one or two to the other galaxy think again. The Dreden and the Pirates should give them more than enough trouble to make them rethink that. And we are only the smallest because you made us that way. But, if you do decide, to rip away one of our beloved members at least let us vote on who should be cast out, doomed to the hell that is the Aliens.

------------------
(url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs3/")BFSIII Homepage(/url)
"The tyranny of the Human Confederacy shall not last long. Soon, the tyrants will be overthrown and a new age will be proclaimed!" Chieftain spl_cadet shortly before the Great Offensive.