Ambrosia Garden Archive
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      We can often judge by size just how strong something's armor/shields would have to be compared to something else. Also, there's a Star Wars ship called an Eclipse Star Destroyer that was only mentioned once here, and was completely ignored. This ship is 17.5 km long! It carries 0ver 850,000 people onboard, has 550 turbos, ten graavity well projectors, and over 600 fighters! This ship alone could decimate most, if not all of the Confederation on it's own. I'll also bring up the World Devestators which carry over 300 turbos and blaster cannons. These were 3.2 km long. These ships could produce new ships, including battle cruisers. If you are a Star Wars fan, I suggest that you buy Star Wars The Essential Guide To Vehicles and Vessels

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      Originally posted by ares1:
      I don't think that this is really an arguement that can be proven one way or another. We do not know how big the EV ships even are.

      Actually, we do. Ever seen that little "length" field in shipyard info? πŸ˜›

      Further, I think with EV vs. Star Trek, you can make a pretty decent weapons comparison. EV Torpedoes are said to have a matter/antimatter warhead separated by a magnetic field. Know what the warhead on the Photon Torpedo from Star Trek is? A matter/antimatter warhead separated by a magnetic field. Note also that the Torpedo (outfit) graphic looks a lot like an unfired Photon Torpedo. I think that Star Trek Torpedo may be a bit more advanced aside from lacking a guidance system, so assume that those two weapons are equal or maybe the Photon Torpedo is a bit better. That allows a basis for comparison. Also remember though that Star Trek shields are immune (mostly) to Laser fire.
      It's hard to say exactly where Star Trek ships would rate on the EV scale, but based on Generations, I'd estimate the Enterprise D at about 100 armor on the EV scale, maybe a bit more. Shields are harder to tell. It's also difficult to place Phaser damage very precisely, but it would be a moderately powerful beam to EV, I think.

      I'm not sure if Star Wars offers any comparisons that are so relatively clear. I'd have to do some research on that. However, it's fairly certain that they would win easily by sheer weight of fire and size of ships.

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      - Macavenger | e-mail: (url="http://"mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com")mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com(/url)e-gamerguy1@home.com

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      Sheesh, all of you guys are argueing about how the Empire would beat EV when you don't realize how pathetic the Empire is. The scouting fleet that Breetai brought with him at the beginning of Robotech numbered over a hundred thousand ships. And the SDF-1 Macross could easily take out several SW sector fleets. And a VF-1 Valkyrie could take out an ISD. Simply allow itself to be "captured" go into Battleoid and launch a crap load of missiles inside the ISD. Resulting explosions would tear the ship apart.

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      Originally posted by spl_cadet:
      **Sheesh, all of you guys are argueing about how the Empire would beat EV when you don't realize how pathetic the Empire is. The scouting fleet that Breetai brought with him at the beginning of Robotech numbered over a hundred thousand ships. And the SDF-1 Macross could easily take out several SW sector fleets. And a VF-1 Valkyrie could take out an ISD. Simply allow itself to be "captured" go into Battleoid and launch a crap load of missiles inside the ISD. Resulting explosions would tear the ship apart.
      **

      I'd argue with you there, but unfortuneately I have no clue what the hell you're talking about. Most of us don't know a lot about Robotech, I'd venture to say, so we're leaving it out of the picture. Quit fogging the issue. πŸ˜› We aren't comparing Robotech to EV very much, let alone Star Wars.

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      - Macavenger | e-mail: (url="http://"mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com")mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com(/url)e-gamerguy1@home.com

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      Robotech is a classic. It is what introduced America to anime. I can't believe you've never heard of it.

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      (quote)Originally posted by Macavenger:
      **Actually, we do. Ever seen that little "length" field in shipyard info?:p

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      world keeps turning

      (This message has been edited by Phil Barron (edited 10-15-2001).)
      **

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      Originally posted by spl_cadet:
      **Robotech is a classic. It is what introduced America to anime. I can't believe you've never heard of it.
      **

      Actually, I have heard of it, I just don't know anything about it. I also have a hard time believing that anyone could like anime, so we're even. πŸ˜›

      Phil - Sorry, we still know.

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      From the EV Bible:
      Length

      The ship's length in meters. Currently unused in any calculations, but itΒ’s kinda cool, so itΒ’s displayed in the "detailed ship info" dialog.

      Thus, I conclude that it is meters, and can be used as an outside reference. πŸ˜› Also, the Confed Cruiser is 200 meters - 1000 is it's mass.

      I also think the tons are a bit odd. Lightnings claim to weigh 12 tons, yet if you add up all the weapons it comes with, it adds up to (I think, been a while) 83 tons. I mentioned that on the Nova board once, and Matt said that the weapons come packed with a lot of foam peanuts.

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      - Macavenger | e-mail: (url="http://"mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com")mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com(/url)e-gamerguy1@home.com

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      (quote)Originally posted by Macavenger:
      **:)

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      world keeps turning
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      It its pointless to argue about these sci fi universes in such a theoretical sense-some have already been made into plugins. Why not make one with all the representative ships of one category (i.e fighters: manta vs. x wing vs. starfury, Cap ships: Fed cruiser vs. Star destroyer vs. Hyperion, Cheap arse ships: alien cruiser vs. shadow cruiser vs. death star), do all the obvious scaling adjustments, and have them duke it out?

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      If at first you don't succeed, use more duct tape.

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      anybody ever considered kamakazi for star wars, b5's ships aren't configured to deal with sheilds, they only have to deal with armor remember?! Besides that starwar's fighter types are nothing comared to ev's, A rapier carres some odd number of 2 ton rockets(like six or something) that's 1200 pounds, making the raptor's wapons alone weigh probably more than 3 b-wings. lightings in swarms, when going beserk wiht evo's AI can eisly kill anything without to many losses (say a swarm of 20 or so, with more comeing when they get destroyed), Have you ever seem what happens to a big ship that can't move for beans when excessive numbers of rebel destroyers rebel cruisers and confed cruisers gang up on it? even if it has triple alien cruiser sheilds, and a double alien fighter sheild re- the gaing up still wins. Besides who can be from one side of the galaxy in less than a minit, if we ignore fuel loads? not anybody from star wars, they take hours going from system to system in hyperspace. Starwar's ships can't seem to repair actual armor rating during a battle, they get hurt in armor, thay stay that way.

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      Have you ever heard of a saftey on that GUN?!

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      Originally posted by The Sentinel:
      **anybody ever considered kamakazi for star wars, b5's ships aren't configured to deal with sheilds, they only have to deal with armor remember?! Besides that starwar's fighter types are nothing comared to ev's, A rapier carres some odd number of 2 ton rockets(like six or something) that's 1200 pounds, making the raptor's wapons alone weigh probably more than 3 b-wings. lightings in swarms, when going beserk wiht evo's AI can eisly kill anything without to many losses (say a swarm of 20 or so, with more comeing when they get destroyed), Have you ever seem what happens to a big ship that can't move for beans when excessive numbers of rebel destroyers rebel cruisers and confed cruisers gang up on it? even if it has triple alien cruiser sheilds, and a double alien fighter sheild re- the gaing up still wins. Besides who can be from one side of the galaxy in less than a minit, if we ignore fuel loads? not anybody from star wars, they take hours going from system to system in hyperspace. Starwar's ships can't seem to repair actual armor rating during a battle, they get hurt in armor, thay stay that way.

      **

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      - Macavenger | e-mail: (url="http://"mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com")mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com(/url)e-gamerguy1@home.com

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      Has anyone noticed that you can only have 32 ships in a system, therefore allowing all the lightinings and rapiers to kill the ties with single shots, and use the missiles on the rebellion fighters that have shields. Ties don't have shields so 1 or 2 shots will kill them. X wings cant take more than 24 shots or so, and Y wings cant take more than 32 or so. Missiles & Torps can take care of them pretty easily. so if you just got a bunch of lighnings & rapier(preferably rapiers because nothing in EV has as much manuverability as Star Wars stuff) together U could Kick Butt. πŸ˜„

      Polecat

      Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

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      Originally posted by Polecat:
      **Has anyone noticed that you can only have 32 ships in a system, therefore allowing all the lightinings and rapiers to kill the ties with single shots, and use the missiles on the rebellion fighters that have shields. Ties don't have shields so 1 or 2 shots will kill them. X wings cant take more than 24 shots or so, and Y wings cant take more than 32 or so. Missiles & Torps can take care of them pretty easily. so if you just got a bunch of lighnings & rapier(preferably rapiers because nothing in EV has as much manuverability as Star Wars stuff) together U could Kick Butt. πŸ˜„
      **

      Star Wars has no such limitation, however, so they could pack a system full with as many ships as they want. Besides, one Vic could probably beat 31 Lightnings.

      Hmm, I wonder what happened to my response to Sentinel's post? I had a buch of stuff there refuting everything he said when I submitted it, but it all seems to be gone now...

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      - Macavenger | e-mail: (url="http://"mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com")mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com(/url)e-gamerguy1@home.com

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      Mac, you wouldn't be interested in coming to a Star Trek vs. Star Wars forum, would you? I was on there for a while then left because it got to time consuming. I lost the link, but I could find it again if you wanted me to.

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      Originally posted by Insano:
      **Mac, you wouldn't be interested in coming to a Star Trek vs. Star Wars forum, would you? I was on there for a while then left because it got to time consuming. I lost the link, but I could find it again if you wanted me to.
      **

      Not really, I don't know as much about Trek as I used to, and not nearly enough about any of the new stuff (Voyager etc.). Besides, Star Wars probably loses that battle, to be honest, and I don't know if I like that.

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      - Macavenger | e-mail: (url="http://"mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com")mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com(/url)e-gamerguy1@home.com

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      OK, no problem. And, btw, the fight was nearly even when I left.

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      Originally posted by Insano:
      **OK, no problem. And, btw, the fight was nearly even when I left.

      **

      I've become more of a Star Trek fan (primarilly the movies) lately, and I must admit that they offer a tough opponent to Star Wars. The Phantom Menace was downright pathetic...

      "The Wrath of Khan" is a classic.

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      Everyone always trashes Episode I, but it wasn't that bad. Yes, so Jar Jar is aimed at kids and stuff like that, but Toy Story is almost universal liked, tell me that wasn't a kiddy movie? Or how about the Ewoks from Episode VI, "Dare to be cute?" If you can get past those, I don't see what the big deal with JJB is. I happen to like Toy Story (I & II) and all 4 Star Wars movies a lot. Episode IV is probably my favorite. Phantom Menace was certainly better than Empire Strikes Back IMO...

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      - Macavenger | e-mail: (url="http://"mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com")mailto:e-gamerguy1@home.com(/url)e-gamerguy1@home.com

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      For some odd reason that I don't really know, most Star Wars fans like Empire Strikes Back the most of all the SW movies. The reason people like Ewoks more than Jar Jar is that the Ewoks weren't pacifists. They were cute fuzzballs that were violent. And Phantom Menace, none of the people in the movie were really very personable, that's why most people don't like it.

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      You know, I think nobody's mentioned the Yuzzhan (awful spelling) Vong. The New Jedi Order series is about them figthing everybody else. They are winning, too! Now if they were thrown in, they would be a match for the EV Aliens, at least.

      Note: they grow evertything. They hate technology. They use gravity as a shield, a engine, and as a weapon. Think of the Black Hole in Frozen Heart.

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      macmaxbh
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