Quote

Originally posted by Macavenger:
**
I don't want to go through this step-by-step, because it would take too long, but the Confed's energy weapons are what pushed it over the top, so this could be a little skewed, because it doesn't use Neutron blasters much, but even if you drop those it's still ahead. i think the common perception that the Fed has more power is probably correct, but not by as much as many people probably think.

BTW, magicianeer, which govt do you prefer?

**

I would have enjoyed seeing the step by step version. I think the equation I gave in my previous post was wrong...

I favor the Rebels, but I am not hostile to the Confeds. I do not destroy Confed ships unless a mission specifically requires it, and I am not above doing occasional confed missions.

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Since you asked, I'd show you the step-by-step, but I already got rid of my notes and don't feel like running through it again. As for your equation possibly being wrong, that's fine, 'cause I didn't use it. I worked out my own for the total damage every 10 seconds.

i too am usually not overly hostile Confeds, other than the occasional isolated fighter in the wrong place at the wrong time, until I get a Rebel ship. Then I have to because they always attack me.

Since David seems to be our only Fed backer here, David, you want to comment on this or bring up some other point to argue? New Confeds welcome too, of course. I could use more practice taking people apart.

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So go on the internet game sites and bash all the PC users!

Confed backers? I don't think very many people (or any) actually prefer the feds over the rebels. There aren't any members name's that have fed in it.

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titan's new board click (url="http://"http://pub101.ezboard.com/btitansboard65830")here(/url) to enter

(quote)Originally posted by magicianeer:
**Bull$#!+

SAME TO YOU IDIOT!

(QUOTE)Originally posted by magicianeer:
(B)You admit that you did not include all the weapons on each ship, blunder the addition and multiplication of what you did include, then "conclude" that one was superior!**(/quote)

You only said that because your puny brain (that is, assuming you do have a brain at all) didn't want to think that the Confed Cruiser is a piece of crud. I carefully looked at the weapon load, I carefully calculated it WITH A CALCULATOR SO SHUT THE HECK UP ABOUT BLUNDERING THE ADDITION AND MULTIPLICATION, and then posted it here. I did count all the important weapons (I said that the proton turrets did not count, if you disagree with that, fix it yourself wuss, otherwise, shut up) and I did not blunder anything.

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If at first you don't succeed...Hit it harder! - Me
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Millennium. Its coming, prepare for it.
Coming to the (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiaSW.com/games/ev/chronicles.html")EV Chronicles(/url).

Quote

Originally posted by Captain Carnotaur:
... the Confed Cruiser is a piece of crud.

This is simply not an accurate statement. If you wish, you can say that the Confederate heavy cruiser does not match your style of piloting, which is quite acceptable. Many people work best in fast ships. However, the fact remains that some people have used the heavy cruiser quite successfully, and its success rate in AI vs. AI battles means that it cannot simply be discounted.

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David Arthur
Talon Plugin for Classic EV: (url="http://"http://members.aol.com/darthur1/talon-ev/")http://members.aol.c...thur1/talon-ev/(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by David Arthur:
**This is simply not an accurate statement. If you wish, you can say that the Confederate heavy cruiser does not match your style of piloting, which is quite acceptable. Many people work best in fast ships. However, the fact remains that some people have used the heavy cruiser quite successfully, and its success rate in AI vs. AI battles means that it cannot simply be discounted.
**

Yeah, sorry. You must understand that I was pretty ticked off by magicianeer.

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If at first you don't succeed...Hit it harder! - Me
--------------
Millennium. Its coming, prepare for it.
Coming to the (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiaSW.com/games/ev/chronicles.html")EV Chronicles(/url).

Quote

Originally posted by Ultimate Rebel:
Confed backers? I don't think very many people (or any) actually prefer the feds over the rebels. There aren't any members name's that have fed in it.

I know there's more than just David, cause they showed up in the old thread...
Hm, maybe I'll post a topic like this on the EVO board, with a link back to this one for original EV players. Maybe there are some Confeds lurking there.

Quote

Originally posted by captain Carnotaur:
I carefully calculated it WITH A CALCULATOR

You used a calculator? Sheesh. I ran the numbers in my head. Course, not everyone recently won their state on a national math test, I realize.

And, about the Confed Cruiser, I still say, despite the numbers, the Rebel is better. In addition to the speed, the Confed Cruiser is not well equipped to take out swarming Mantas. The Patrol Ships usually engage the Cruiser piecemeal, and it smokes them with Rockets and missiles. By contrast, The Fed has to deal with all the Mantas in a swarm, and doesn't have nearly as effective of weapons against them. So, the Mantas stick around longer and deal more damage then Patrol Ships, swinging the balance back a bit. This is especially true since they have equal missiles in 1.0.5. I had 1.0.4 for a long time, and got tired of seeing Mantas get smoked regularly because they only had 1 missile. :mad:

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So go on the internet game sites and bash all the PC users!

Quote

Originally posted by Captain Carnotaur:
**:rolleyes:

The Rebels are really pirates!
**

Yah Pirates!

Quote

Originally posted by Captain Skyblade:
**You know the Confederation Junk-o-saurus is a sitting duck...or mabey a goose

**

Yah pirates!

Quote

Originally posted by Captain Carnotaur:
**You only said that because your puny Confed Cruiser is a piece of crud.
**

Yah Pirates

Quote

Originally posted 3 times by evilman:
Yah Pirates!

Can you say anything else? I can see posting once, even though the pirates don't have a real mission string, they are a government that can be fun to emulate. I prefer to pirate the pirates, though.

/me mutters something about unregistered newbies...

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So go on the internet game sites and bash all the PC users!

Quote

Originally posted by Macavenger:
**Can you say anything else? I can see posting once, even though the pirates don't have a real mission string, they are a government that can be fun to emulate. I prefer to pirate the pirates, though.:D

/me mutters something about unregistered newbies...
**

Boarding pirates gets you credits, gives you better a legal rating, and... It's FUN!

Now,now. We can't blame him for the two word vocabulary, blame the education system.. (j/k of course.)

Seriously evilman, don't post the same message like that. It's pointless & upsets others.

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Truth suffers from too much analysis.
--Ancient Fremen Saying

Quote

Originally posted by Macavenger:
**You used a calculator? Sheesh. I ran the numbers in my head.:p Course, not everyone recently won their state on a national math test, I realize.
**

Eh, I'm good at math. I just used the calculator because it was quicker and I didn't have anything to write on at the time (I don't do EXTREMELY well in mental math).

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If at first you don't succeed...Hit it harder! - Me
--------------
Millennium. Its coming, prepare for it.
Coming to the (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiaSW.com/games/ev/chronicles.html")EV Chronicles(/url).

And Evilman; you have just done something which is classified as spamming. Please stop now or risk an IP Ban. To clarify, please read the Webboard Guidelines at: (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/webboard/guidelines.html")http://www.AmbrosiaS...guidelines.html(/url)

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If at first you don't succeed...Hit it harder! - Me
--------------
Millennium. Its coming, prepare for it.
Coming to the (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiaSW.com/games/ev/chronicles.html")EV Chronicles(/url).

Who cares about that weapons damage crap?! I have watched the AI reb cruiser vs. the fed AI cruiser, and almost every time the rebel cruiser beat the confederate cruiser. And they were the only ones battling. The destroyer almost always defeats the frigate, though the frigate does win many times. The manta and the patrol ship have a fifty fifty chance of winning, and the manta almost always defeats the junkboat (or the lifeboat). In big battles, usually the sife with more ships is the victor. And, the rebels destroy any confed ships, including supply ships.

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Quote

Originally posted by Ultimate Rebel:
And, the rebels destroy any confed ships, including supply ships.

Are you actually bringing out the fact that the rebels attack civilian ships as a point in their favour? The shuttles, light freighters, etc. that fly around with Confederate transponders are not (usually) military supply ships. They're civilian vessels owned by people or corporations on Confederate planets, and there's no benefit to the Rebel cause or anyone's freedom in destroying them. Attacking civilians is generally considered to be a violation of the rules of civilised war, if that's not a contradiction in terms. I'd say this Rebel behaviour is probably the best argument against them!

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David Arthur
Talon Plugin for Classic EV: (url="http://"http://members.aol.com/darthur1/talon-ev/")http://members.aol.c...thur1/talon-ev/(/url)

(This message has been edited by David Arthur (edited 05-26-2001).)

Quote

Originally posted by David Arthur:
**Are you actually bringing out the fact that the rebels attack civilian ships as a point in their favour? The shuttles, light freighters, etc. that fly around with Confederate transponders are not (usually) military supply ships. They're civilian vessels owned by people or corporations on Confederate planets, and there's no benefit to the Rebel cause or anyone's freedom in destroying them. Attacking civilians is generally considered to be a violation of the rules of civilised war, if that's not a contradiction in terms. I'd say this Rebel behaviour is probably the best argument against them!
**

I agree that this is one of the rebel's few moral downsides, but I disagree with your statement that they are mostly civilian owned. There are other ships flying around with no transponder that fit in that category. While they are probably not all military supply shipments, they probably are still government controlled shipments, and since the goal of the rebellion is to bring the confederacy down, I see it as a slightly dirty extension of that. Also, on the rules of civilized warfare, they are usually one of the first casualties of a war. You know the saying "All is fair in love and war." War often leads to some regrettably dirty tactics. I seem to recall from history class that US soldiers shot many surrendering Germans on Omaha beach, because taking prisoners then would have been most inconvenient.

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So go on the internet game sites and bash all the PC users!

(This message has been edited by Macavenger (edited 05-26-2001).)

Quote

Originally posted by Macavenger:
I agree that this is one of the rebel's few moral downsides, but I disagree with your statement that they are mostly civilian owned. There are other ships flying around with no transponder that fit in that category.

The ships with no transponder are civilian ships from independent planets. The cargo ships with Confederate transponders are civilian ships from Confederate planets. If you want my reasoning, here it is. If I had an ocean-going vessel, it would be registered in Canada. It would not be in any way connected with the Canadian Navy, but it would have a Canadian registration and fly a Canadian flag. I'm assuming that the registration system in EV has been carried over from modern sea practices the same way many other things have, so if you were a civilian from a Confederate planet operating a spaceship, you would have a Confederate registration and a Confederate transponder.

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David Arthur
Talon Plugin for Classic EV: (url="http://"http://members.aol.com/darthur1/talon-ev/")http://members.aol.c...thur1/talon-ev/(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by David Arthur:
**The ships with no transponder are civilian ships from independent planets. The cargo ships with Confederate transponders are civilian ships from Confederate planets. If you want my reasoning, here it is. If I had an ocean-going vessel, it would be registered in Canada. It would not be in any way connected with the Canadian Navy, but it would have a Canadian registration and fly a Canadian flag. I'm assuming that the registration system in EV has been carried over from modern sea practices the same way many other things have, so if you were a civilian from a Confederate planet operating a spaceship, you would have a Confederate registration and a Confederate transponder.
**

Yeah, but in Override, the independent traders do have a tag: Trader. I would say in override that these are the true independents, and that they are the same in EV, just without a tag. If I remember correctly, there are traders in the crescent using crescent technology, but no independent systems there for them to be based out of. Also, in regular EV, there are no traders with rebel transponder codes. Please don't try to argue that there are no independent traders that live on rebel planets. So I still say the ones with Confed transponders are in fact Confed owned and operated. It's like cars on the streets of the US (and, I assume, other countries) with "Publicly Owned" license plates.

Also, the only thing stopping the Confeds from beating on Rebel freighters is that there aren't any. I once had a plug where there were some, and Confed Frigates didn't hesitate to fire on them.

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So go on the internet game sites and bash all the PC users!

Quote

Originally posted by Macavenger:
**And, coreycubed, if you're going to argue until you can argue no more, you might want to start by stating your position on the issue.:p Also, I did read the archived thread and always wanted to comment on those points, and this seems to be my chance, so I'm going to use it. I will also argue on any new ones until this gets locked/archived.

**

Good. I see I'm not the only one.
Oh, my choice? Rebels.
And I actually don't feel like arguing much right now.

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Coreył (Cubed)
That's Corey x Corey x Corey