You stopped using the Auto-Refueler (and purchasing fuel) long ago. That's what Confed Cruisers and Frigates and Pirate Kestrels are for ... fuel depots.
- KK
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You will find that we will be either the most loyal and trustworthy of allies, or ... if you insist on trying to swallow us up -- the worst of enemies. The choice is yours. And should you choose to fight us ... dont bring a knife to a gunfight!!!
Quote
Originally posted by Shade:
Personally I think you ought to be able to change the names of stellars and systems you've dominated.
I don't. You see, however much people talk about "conquering the galaxy," that's not really possible in EV. Domination is just that; you blow up all the defence ships a planet can muster and scare its inhabitants into paying you protection money to stay away. You don't become the ruler of the planet or anything like that.
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David Arthur
(url="http://"http://members.aol.com/darthur1/talon-ev/")Talon Plugin for the original Escape Velocity(/url)
You know you're good at EV when
22)Strict Play isn't a challenge, it's a way of life.
23)The ship you have looks good, so why do you need a better one?
24)You don't buy ships because eventually you'll just capture one.
25)You help people out on the message board
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"This lady needs to be taken to a hospital immediately"
"A hospital, what is it?"
"It's a big building with patients in, but that's not important right now"
You realize the Rebellion is truelly the better government (no comment, David ;)).
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-Cap'n Skyblade
-Battle for Sol - Episode II: The Unfinished War-
(url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/TheUnfinishedWarMap.jpg")Map(/url) | (url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/human/HumanConfederationWeapons.html")Human Confederation Weapons(/url) | (url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/pirate/PirateWeapons.html")Pirate Weapons(/url) | (url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/alien/AlienWeapons.html")Alien Weapons(/url)
(url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/human/HumanConfederationShipyard.html")Human Confederacy Shipyard(/url) | (url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/pirate/PirateShipyard.html")Pirate Shipyard(/url) | (url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/alien/AlienShipyard.html")Alien Empire Shipyard(/url)
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David Arthur
(url="http://"http://members.aol.com/darthur1/talon-ev/")Talon Plugin for the original Escape Velocity(/url)
David- Nothing against you, I've just never found a good reason coming from you as to exactly why you hold such respect for the Confederation, and treat the Rebellion like they had no right to rebel in the first place.
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-Cap'n Skyblade
-Battle for Sol - Episode II: The Unfinished War-
(url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/TheUnfinishedWarMap.jpg")Map(/url) | (url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/human/HumanConfederationWeapons.html")Human Confederation Weapons(/url) | (url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/pirate/PirateWeapons.html")Pirate Weapons(/url) | (url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/alien/AlienWeapons.html")Alien Weapons(/url)
(url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/human/HumanConfederationShipyard.html")Human Confederacy Shipyard(/url) | (url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/pirate/PirateShipyard.html")Pirate Shipyard(/url) | (url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/alien/AlienShipyard.html")Alien Empire Shipyard(/url)
Quote
Originally posted by jdh545:
**12. Get tired of beating the game in a corvette, so you go down to rapeir, then to lightning, then to (insert cheapest ship you can beat the game with here).
Personally I can beat it in a scout ship, i dont think a shutle craft is possible, (try tag in a shuuttle, others may be, but i doubt it, alien mission can be done, but not sure if the rest can be, havent tried)...
**
Beat the game huh? Wow, I didn't know you could beat the game. 
I'm only thirteen and I've been playing EV since late 96-early 97. Yes I was 9 and I didn't know what I was doing, so what.
The Fed CA looks more like space junk than a gigantic warship
You make Dreadnought type ships just so you can beat them up
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"The heathens are upon us. Arm yourselves and go with God." Paul Benden, Commander of the Purple Sector Fleet, prior to the Battle of Cygni.
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Skyblade:
I've just never found a good reason coming from you as to exactly why you hold such respect for the Confederation, and treat the Rebellion like they had no right to rebel in the first place.
Why I dislike the Rebellion? Well, there are a number of factors, but they include
the fact that they attack and destroy civilian ships, and
the fact that they have never shown any real evidence to justify their use of force to attempt to overthrow the government.
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David Arthur
(url="http://"http://members.aol.com/darthur1/talon-ev/")Talon Plugin for the original Escape Velocity(/url)
(This message has been edited by David Arthur (edited 08-04-2001).)
Quote
Originally posted by David Arthur:
**Why I dislike the Rebellion? Well, there are a number of factors, but they include
the fact that they attack and destroy civilian ships, and
the fact that they have never shown any real evidence to justify their use of force to attempt to overthrow the government.
**
Hmmm...I've never seen Rebel ships attack civillian vessels. Maybe I'm missing something here?
As for your second reason, I can see why the Rebellion hasn't made actual force to overthrow the Confederation...They are a small band of patriotic fighters, simply trying to gain justice. But you can't simply overthrow a gigantic empire, full of greed, by saying you've won. Even in a military aspect, the Rebellion doesn't have the navy nor manpower to make an honest attempt to end the war. Maybe "attempt" is the wrong word, as the Rebellion does do what they can to bring an end to the conflict.
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-Cap'n Skyblade
-Battle for Sol - Episode II: The Unfinished War-
(url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/TheUnfinishedWarMap.jpg")Map(/url) | (url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/human/HumanConfederationWeapons.html")Human Confederation Weapons(/url) | (url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/pirate/PirateWeapons.html")Pirate Weapons(/url) | (url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/alien/AlienWeapons.html")Alien Weapons(/url)
(url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/human/HumanConfederationShipyard.html")Human Confederacy Shipyard(/url) | (url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/pirate/PirateShipyard.html")Pirate Shipyard(/url) | (url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/alien/AlienShipyard.html")Alien Empire Shipyard(/url)
Quote
Why I dislike the Rebellion? Well, there are a number of factors, but they include
the fact that they attack and destroy civilian ships, and
the fact that they have never shown any real evidence to justify their use of force to attempt to overthrow the government.
The civilian ships he's talking about are like the confed shuttles and light freighters.
They were being oppressed by the confederation. Just read the opening story.
Quote
Originally posted by Insano:
**The civilian ships he's talking about are like the confed shuttles and light freighters.
**
Ha! I would think that if a Confederation warship saw a Rebel freighter, it would destroy it also. 
------------------
-Cap'n Skyblade
-Battle for Sol - Episode II: The Unfinished War-
(url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/TheUnfinishedWarMap.jpg")Map(/url) | (url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/human/HumanConfederationWeapons.html")Human Confederation Weapons(/url) | (url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/pirate/PirateWeapons.html")Pirate Weapons(/url) | (url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/alien/AlienWeapons.html")Alien Weapons(/url)
(url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/human/HumanConfederationShipyard.html")Human Confederacy Shipyard(/url) | (url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/pirate/PirateShipyard.html")Pirate Shipyard(/url) | (url="http://"http://members.home.net/e-gamerguy1/ev/bfs2/alien/AlienShipyard.html")Alien Empire Shipyard(/url)
Quote
Originally posted by Insano:
The civilian ships he's talking about are like the confed shuttles and light freighters..
I'm talking about the civilian shuttles, light freighters, luxury liners, etc. Those are not military vessels, and it does not in any way advance anybody's freedom to destroy them.
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Skyblade:
Ha! I would think that if a Confederation warship saw a Rebel freighter, it would destroy it also.
A Rebel military freighter? Certainly. However, nowhere in Escape Velocity do Confederate ships attack any vessels other than Rebel warships and pirates without provocation.
Quote
Originally posted by Insano:
They were being oppressed by the confederation. Just read the opening story.
They say they were oppressed, yet have never even gone as far as to give any details about this alleged oppression, let alone supply real evidence.
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Skyblade:
As for your second reason, I can see why the Rebellion hasn't made actual force to overthrow the Confederation...They are a small band of patriotic fighters, simply trying to gain justice. But you can't simply overthrow a gigantic empire, full of greed, by saying you've won.
I think you've misunderstood me; I'm not saying that they're incapable of achieving their objective, just that they have not given adequate justification for their actions. And what evidence do you have that the Confederation is in any way more full of greed than any other civilisation?
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Skyblade:
Maybe "attempt" is the wrong word, as the Rebellion does do what they can to bring an end to the conflict.
/me notes that the Rebellion ~began~ the war.
In general, I believe that, just as in a lawsuit it is the plaintiff must prove their accusations, in a war the aggressor is the one that must justify their actions, and the Rebellion has not yet done so. If they were only trying to become independent from the Confederation, I could live with it - and, from various clues ingame, I think the Confederation could too - but they seem to be determined to completely topple the Confederation, regardless of how many people are happy living in it.
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David Arthur
(url="http://"http://members.aol.com/darthur1/talon-ev/")Talon Plugin for the original Escape Velocity(/url)
(This message has been edited by David Arthur (edited 08-04-2001).)
Quote
Originally posted by David Arthur:
**/me notes that the Rebellion ~began~ the war.
In general, I believe that, just as in a lawsuit it is the plaintiff must prove their accusations, in a war the aggressor is the one that must justify their actions, and the Rebellion has not yet done so. If they were only trying to become independent from the Confederation, I could live with it - and, from various clues ingame, I think the Confederation could too - but they seem to be determined to completely topple the Confederation, regardless of how many people are happy living in it.
**
On Topic: Playing the game is not enough, you go to the ASW Webboards and join in on discusssions.
Off Topic: Of late, I have found myself finding many areas of agreement with David in the
theme of Rebellion Vs. Confederation. It also has bothered me that the Rebels seem to
use attacking civilian vessels such as shuttles, freighters and luxury liners as a tool of
war against the Confederation. (It might be possible to justify the shuttles and freighters
by saying they are aiding or abetting the Confederation war effort by delivery of supplys or carrying messages for the confederate military, but the same cannot be said about Luxury liners. For evidence, fly around in Capella or even in the Sol system and you will eventually witness Rebel ships attacking and destroying luxury liners.)
The Rebels also make use of assasination as a tool in their war with the Confederation. It might be possible to justify attacks on military leaders, but the assasination missions involve the killing of diplomats. These diplomats are not identified
as being Secretary of War, Head of Security, etc. they are simply described as Senators or diplomats in general. Who is to say that these diplomats are not on a mission to start peace talks? Or being sent on a mission to try and find a way to end the conflict peacefully such as the Confederation being willing to allow the Rebels to withdraw from the Confederaton? (As David hinted about.)
Finally, the fact that the Rebels deal with Pirates is to me a major concern. In one particular mission, you are asked to attack a Confederate Munitions fleet and steal the munitions and take them to a PIRATE BASE. The mission ending text says you are met by a group of Rebels, yes, but the implication is at least that they are going to sell or at least share the munitions with the Pirates, persons that will use them to attack anyone for their own gain, including Rebel Civilians.
I have rambled on long enough I think. I appologize to the person that started this thread by being so off topic.
BTW, you folks have been giving me alot of enjoyment with your topics, thoughts, ideas etc.
I tend to side with the Feds, the Rebs background is rather murky.
Quote
I'm talking about the civilian shuttles, light freighters, luxury liners, etc. Those are not military vessels, and it does not in any way advance anybody's freedom to destroy them.
They are helping the feds. Everyone seems upset about the luxury liners, tough. Ever think that luxury liners carry very important individuals?
Quote
A Rebel military freighter? Certainly. However, nowhere in Escape Velocity do Confederate ships attack any vessels other than Rebel warships and pirates without provocation.
sigh Maybe that's because they don't exist. There are no rebel light freighters that I know of.
Quote
They say they were oppressed, yet have never even gone as far as to give any details about this alleged oppression, let alone supply real evidence.
Rotfl! That's the official story from Ambrosia. Don't you trust them?
Quote
but they seem to be determined to completely topple the Confederation, regardless of how many people are happy living in it.
Do you know how many people are happy living in it? Only the non-oppressed ones in the rich core worlds.
Quote
but the assasination missions involve the of diplomats. These diplomats are not identified as being Secretary of War, Head of Security, etc. they are simply described as Senators or diplomats in general.
Correction. They are described as "Confederation officials." And, these are high rebel officers here. You are on a "need-to-know" basis. And you don't need to know.
Quote
Finally, the fact that the Rebels deal with Pirates is to me a major concern. In one particular mission, you are asked to attack a Confederate Munitions fleet and steal the munitions and take them to a PIRATE BASE. The mission ending text says you are met by a group of Rebels, yes, but the implication is at least that they are going to sell or at least share the munitions with the Pirates, persons that will use them to attack anyone for their own gain, including Rebel Civilians.
How do you know that they actually tricked the Pirates and didn't give them the supplies? How do you know that these rebels weren't being forced to do this? How do you know that the rebels didn't destroy the ships carrying the supplies that go to the pirates? I think I've made my case well enough.
Who cares about whos rigth? I onyl chose the rebellion because
Tycho Maudd
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I say what occurs to me to say when I think I hear people say things, more I cannot say.
Quote
Originally posted by Insano:
They are helping the feds. Everyone seems upset about the luxury liners, tough. Ever think that luxury liners carry very important individuals?
Luxury liners can carry important officials, but they can also carry tourists. As for "helping the feds," since when is it a military activity to be a citizen of a government? It is generally assumed these days that it is not justifiable to attack civilian targets on the off-chance that somebody important might be nearby.
Quote
Originally posted by Insano:
sigh Maybe that's because they don't exist. There are no rebel light freighters that I know of.
Exactly. If Matt Burch had wanted the Confederation to destroy Rebel civilians, it would have been very easy for him to do so. Remember that this is the scenario that the EV engine was originally designed for, so most everything that happens is happening for a reason.
Quote
Originally posted by Insano:
That's the official story from Ambrosia. Don't you trust them?
For comparison, I'll point out that all of the Nova preambles are the official story from Ambrosia, and yet they represent the views of different groups within the game. The EV intro text is quite obviously told from a Rebel perspective. Also, have you read Scumdog's story in the EV documentation? He never mentions the Rebellion as anything except as one of the reasons the Fringes are "dangerous to travel without some firepower on your side" and never has any complaints about the Confederation - in fact, he was a Confederate fighter pilot during the Great War - and his story is just as official as the intro text.
Quote
Originally posted by Insano:
Do you know how many people are happy living in it? Only the non-oppressed ones in the rich core worlds.
I don't know if you've noticed, but the Core Worlds amount to pretty much all of Confederation territory, and again, nobody's shown any evidence about whether any oppression took place, exactly who was being oppressed, and who was responsible. Remember, just because somebody was oppressed doesn't implicitly make the central government to blame, especially since the Rebellion doesn't seem to have ever made much of an attempt to solve its grievances through legitimate non-violent means.
Quote
Originally posted by Insano:
Correction. They are described as "Confederation officials." And, these are high rebel officers here. You are on a "need-to-know" basis. And you don't need to know.
I'm looking at mďsn ID 146, called "Assasination." In it, the player is told that "a member of the Confederation Senate will be travelling in a passenger ship through this region in a few hours" and that "it would be most unfortunate...if he were to meet with an... accident." Not only is there no reason given for this assasination, but there isn't even the slightest suggestion that there is any further reason that is not being revealed to the player. I have a hard time seeing how it promotes freedom to murder the people's representatives.
Quote
Originally posted by Tycho Maudd:
1) i like the tractor beam
2) i like the cloaking devise
The tractor beam can be convenient; I find the cloaking device's effect on shields to make it of little use except on ships with high armour.
Quote
Originally posted by Tycho Maudd:
3) thier ships match me style of play
I don't find that either government has ships that match my style of play. I prefer a Corvette-level ship. Mind you, the Confederate Osprey in Battle for Sol is pretty nice to fly.
Quote
Originally posted by Tycho Maudd:
4) i think thier ships look better.
I suppose it's all a matter of opinion. The Rebel ships look too violent for my taste.
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David Arthur
(url="http://"http://members.aol.com/darthur1/talon-ev/")Talon Plugin for the original Escape Velocity(/url)
(This message has been edited by David Arthur (edited 08-05-2001).)
