confeds are better cause their AI ships whup ass on rebels and look cooler. rebels have better ships when human controlled and they are fighting for a gud cause. the end.

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Quote

Originally posted by Whurp:
**confeds are better cause their AI ships whup ass on rebels and look cooler. rebels have better ships when human controlled

**

This goes without saying. Any ship piloted by a human player will be vastly superior to that piloted by AI. Therefore your comparison is unfair and thus meaningless. As I noted many posts ago, the only fair comparison to be made is a comparison of AI v. AI. In that contest, Confed cruisers routinely demolish their rebel counterparts and Confed gunboats treat rebel Mantas as almost an afterthought.

**and they are fighting for a gud cause.

**

As you can see, this issue is still debatable.

**the end.

**

Far from it. I don't think we're even half way through.

The confeds have 4ships in their class, while the rebels only have 3 (hey, not far!) So it decided THE REBELS! (by far!)

Rebels for ever!

Again, I am sorry for ignoring this topic, but my life has suddenly just gottn very hectic, and I only have time for short posts. Have patience!

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We do not live to work, rather, we work to live.

Let's not forget that what people say can be very different from what they actually do and what they do to achieve what they say.

I know, I know. Again, I am taking the view that these rebels are the kind that do what they say.

**Legal recourse is a relative term. Dr. King marched without a permit therefore the march was illegal. However, he gladly accepted the consequences (being imprisoned). He believes that by challenging the unjust application of a just law and accepting the consequences, he was showing the highest respect for the law. The rebels on the other hand refused to accept the consequences and sought to escape them by hoarding arms and using terrorist tactics.

As for protecting others, the best way to protect others is to persuade them not to take up arms against the oppressors. Again, I cite the example of civil disobedience. Dr. King and Gandhi both asked their fellow brethren not to use violence. From this comparison, one can deduce that the rebels asked others to take up arms (even paying others to take up arms) precisely because they wanted bloodshed.

You will also notice that I never disputed the fact (presented by the introductory text) that the Confeds were brutal and oppressive.**

I agree that the methods of both Dr. King and Gandhi are far preferable to a violent revolution, but at the same time I do not believe such an attempt is viable if, for example, the protesters were to be mowed down with machine guns.

I think we have pretty much reached the point where we have boiled down to our basic disagreements, and further discussion along this line would be fruitless. If your willing, I would like to move on to another aspect of the Rebel v. Confederates debate.

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We do not live to work, rather, we work to live.

Quote

Originally posted by Begemotike:
**I agree that the methods of both Dr. King and Gandhi are far preferable to a violent revolution, but at the same time I do not believe such an attempt is viable if, for example, the protesters were to be mowed down with machine guns.

**

Gandhi continued to advocate non-violence even after the Amristar massacre perpetrated by the British.

**I think we have pretty much reached the point where we have boiled down to our basic disagreements, and further discussion along this line would be fruitless. If your willing, I would like to move on to another aspect of the Rebel v. Confederates debate.

**

Agreed. What other aspect are you interested in?

ok, what i mean is that confed ships will most likely win over their rebel counterparts AI vs AI.

however, i much prefer the rebel ships when i control them because they are more manoeuverable than the confeds. however, admittedly...my fav ship is fed frigate, mainly 'cause it looks cool

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Okay. Actually, Whurp already kind of said what I wanted to. It seems to me that, playerwise, the Reble ships would be preferable (Execept for in the case of the Manta) because of their higher manouverability. The Cruiser has high shielding, and even though the Confed Cruiser has higher I don't think that would help you as much in a situation, where say, you are tring to run from a massive missle attack. With a Confed Cruiser, really, you can only go for a head to head fight. Granted, it's awesome firepower makes it a sure winner in any one on one contest like that, but if you have many enemies, and they can make hit and run attacks, then you are in trouble. You can't really disengage. With the Rebel Cruiser on the other hand, you can disengage whenver you need to, avoid conflict untill your shield goes up (Another thing, it has faster regeneration. You can actually see it happen), and head back in. Thus, you can fight a battle for as long as you want, using hit and run tactics, whereas with a Confed Cruiser that's not really viable.

It 2:21 AM. If I am not coherant, that is the reason.

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We do not live to work, rather, we work to live.

Quote

Originally posted by Begemotike:
**Okay. Actually, Whurp already kind of said what I wanted to. It seems to me that, playerwise, the Reble ships would be preferable (Execept for in the case of the Manta) because of their higher manouverability. The Cruiser has high shielding, and even though the Confed Cruiser has higher I don't think that would help you as much in a situation, where say, you are tring to run from a massive missle attack. With a Confed Cruiser, really, you can only go for a head to head fight. Granted, it's awesome firepower makes it a sure winner in any one on one contest like that, but if you have many enemies, and they can make hit and run attacks, then you are in trouble. You can't really disengage. With the Rebel Cruiser on the other hand, you can disengage whenver you need to, avoid conflict untill your shield goes up (Another thing, it has faster regeneration. You can actually see it happen), and head back in. Thus, you can fight a battle for as long as you want, using hit and run tactics, whereas with a Confed Cruiser that's not really viable.

It 2:21 AM. If I am not coherant, that is the reason.

**

Everything is relative. You're right in asserting that it is difficult for the Confed cruiser to dodge missiles. However, why would you want to dodge missiles when you're in a Confed cruiser? With its massive shields, it can easily take a few shots and attack the enemy head on. Since it has more gun and turret slots and larger weapons space, a human player can upgrade it further than a rebel cruiser's upper limit. As a result, the Confed cruiser can meet the enemy head on immediately and take him down in a much shorter time than the rebel cruiser.

AI's don't make hit and run attacks so I'm assuming you're referring to a human player vs. human player(s). Even in this scenario, the Confed cruiser's greater expandability allows it to pummel the enemy with a barrage of torpedoes and missiles. It can carry a much larger number of ammunition than the rebel cruiser. Indeed, if the rebel cruiser is the target of hit and run attacks, I'm afraid that the rebel cruiser's weaker shields and comparatively limited expandability will force it to flee first. (After all, even if you add speed upgrades to the rebel cruiser, it can't outrun torpedoes and missiles.)

Finally, I'm generally not a fan of circling or Monty Python. I prefer to have a short, adrenaline-pumping, glorious battle taking on all of my enemies at once. Personally, I think it is far more exciting than engage and disengage, engage and disengage, engage and disengage,...etc.

To Whurp: People who have fast reflexes generally prefer faster and more maneuverable ships. Others like me who are plagued by slow reflexes are satisfied with ships like the Confed cruiser. Indeed, for people like me, slower and less maneuverable ships are more manageable. Ships too fast and maneuverable can be a problem for people like me. (You will never see me pilot an Azdara. I'll take the Igazra.)

Quote

Originally posted by htjyang:
(B)(After all, even if you add speed upgrades to the rebel cruiser, it can't outrun torpedoes and missiles.)

Sure it can. I have no problem outrunning torpedos in an upgraded Rebel Cruiser. Even missiles are no problem with a few jolts from an afterburner - it doesn't take very much to put you outside a missile's range. And if you really need to disengage in a hurry, there's always the cloaking device.

--Captain Carrot

Quote

Originally posted by CaptainCarrot:
**Sure it can. I have no problem outrunning torpedos in an upgraded Rebel Cruiser. Even missiles are no problem with a few jolts from an afterburner - it doesn't take very much to put you outside a missile's range. And if you really need to disengage in a hurry, there's always the cloaking device.

--Captain Carrot**

Forgot about the afterburner. Thank you for reminding me. The Confed cruiser can also evade these projectile weapons, then. It can also use an afterburner. The reason why I forgot about the afterburner is probably because I never used one. Never saw the need to. The Confed cruiser can take quite a few hits before it has to run. Let's not forget that the Confed cruiser's shields are 60% stronger than the rebel cruiser's and its armor is 20% stronger. I've already mentioned its greater number of guns and turret slots and a larger weapons and cargo sapce so I don't see the need to repeat them here. I would just like to remind all of you that the Confed cruiser carries more than 95% more crew than the rebel cruiser. In terms of probabilities, this translates into the Confed cruiser having nearly twice better chances than the rebel cruiser in capturing other ships for escorts. Of course this also translates into the Confed cruiser having good chances capturing a rebel cruiser rather than vice versa.

I guess we have totally different fighting styles. I ALWAYS hit-and-run, even if there is only a few corvettes around. I only stay once it's time to mop up, or if it's on or two fighters I don't want to bother messing with.....
Actually, the Confed cruiser CAN'T run from missles, even with an afterburner, at least not like the Rebel Cruiser. In a rebel cruiser, when you give a boost to get away from a missile, your speed stays at that rate, and no missile will catch you up. On the other hand, in a Confed Cruiser, once you stop aplying afterburner you slow rigth back down, and all the missles come rigth back in.......

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We do not live to work, rather, we work to live.

Quote

Originally posted by Begemotike:
**I guess we have totally different fighting styles. I ALWAYS hit-and-run, even if there is only a few corvettes around. I only stay once it's time to mop up, or if it's on or two fighters I don't want to bother messing with.....
Actually, the Confed cruiser CAN'T run from missles, even with an afterburner, at least not like the Rebel Cruiser. In a rebel cruiser, when you give a boost to get away from a missile, your speed stays at that rate, and no missile will catch you up. On the other hand, in a Confed Cruiser, once you stop aplying afterburner you slow rigth back down, and all the missles come rigth back in.......

**

Running away from projectiles doesn't necessarily mean outrunning them. It can mean making fast enough turns at the right times so that the projectiles will impact on asteroids.

I enjoy fighting multiple rebel ships at once and being pummeled by a line of torpedoes and missiles for the simple reason that those weapons are merely scratching the surface of my ship. Unlike the majority of vessels which will be slowed down or even stopped at its tracks if not bumped backwards by a slew of torpedoes, my Confed cruiser takes them in stride, as if they have not been fired at all. My Confed cruiser is so huge that enemy fire coming directly towards it does little to slow it down. Once I reach the target, I proceed to send it to an inglorious end.

Quote

Originally posted by htjyang:
I enjoy fighting multiple rebel ships at once and being pummeled by a line of torpedoes and missiles for the simple reason that those weapons are merely scratching the surface of my ship. Unlike the majority of vessels which will be slowed down or even stopped at its tracks if not bumped backwards by a slew of torpedoes, my Confed cruiser takes them in stride, as if they have not been fired at all. My Confed cruiser is so huge that enemy fire coming directly towards it does little to slow it down. Once I reach the target, I proceed to send it to an inglorious end.

This is one of those issues that could probably be resolved only if there was a multiplayer version of the game. Human vs. AI gives a distorted picture of the relative strengths of each ship. I had little trouble dealing with Confed Cruisers even in a Corvette - admittedly, as long as they didn't have anything else escorting them.

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--Captain Carrot

Quote

Originally posted by htjyang:
Forgot about the afterburner. Thank you for reminding me. The Confed cruiser can also evade these projectile weapons, then.

Perhaps I was unclear. I can outrun - or at least stay ahead of - torpedos with a Rebel Cruiser without the afterburner, just the upgrades. I can avoid missiles fairly easily, especially if there are asteroids around, but if I really need to outdistance them the afterburner is necessary, as it is with most other ships larger than a fighter.

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--Captain Carrot

Quote

Originally posted by htjyang:
**Running away from projectiles doesn't necessarily mean outrunning them. It can mean making fast enough turns at the right times so that the projectiles will impact on asteroids.

I enjoy fighting multiple rebel ships at once and being pummeled by a line of torpedoes and missiles for the simple reason that those weapons are merely scratching the surface of my ship. Unlike the majority of vessels which will be slowed down or even stopped at its tracks if not bumped backwards by a slew of torpedoes, my Confed cruiser takes them in stride, as if they have not been fired at all. My Confed cruiser is so huge that enemy fire coming directly towards it does little to slow it down. Once I reach the target, I proceed to send it to an inglorious end.**

Maybe so, but try going and conquering a reasonably defended planet by just sitting and taking punishment. I don't see you doing that unless you can retreat or avoid enemy fire.

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We do not live to work, rather, we work to live.

Quote

Originally posted by Begemotike:
**Maybe so, but try going and conquering a reasonably defended planet by just sitting and taking punishment. I don't see you doing that unless you can retreat or avoid enemy fire.

**

As a rule, I don't dominate planets, at all. I do not like battles for the sake of battles. It is not as if I need the extra revenue. The point I'm trying to make is that the Confed cruiser can shorten the length of time a battle takes far better than the rebel cruiser. You'll note that in one of my earlier messages, I wrote: "I prefer to have a short, adrenaline-pumping, glorious battle taking on all of my enemies at once." As you can see, one of my criteria for an exciting fight is "short." I'm not interested in trying to take out a Confed cruiser with a corvette. One of the reasons why I get the Confed cruiser is because it is the best vessel in the game to shorten a fight.

Quote

Originally posted by htjyang:
As a rule, I don't dominate planets, at all. I do not like battles for the sake of battles. It is not as if I need the extra revenue. The point I'm trying to make is that the Confed cruiser can shorten the length of time a battle takes far better than the rebel cruiser. You'll note that in one of my earlier messages, I wrote: "I prefer to have a short, adrenaline-pumping, glorious battle taking on all of my enemies at once." As you can see, one of my criteria for an exciting fight is "short." I'm not interested in trying to take out a Confed cruiser with a corvette. One of the reasons why I get the Confed cruiser is because it is the best vessel in the game to shorten a fight.

Okay, Ican't argue with that logic. If you're looking for a ship that can take the most punishement and seriously shorten the lives of your enemies the massive Confederate Cruiser is indeed the way to go. I, personally, always take the fast and agile way, and with that in mind I can't see any ship better than the Rebel Cruiser. With the amount of shields and weaponry it carries, and the agility and speed it carries it is dogfighters dream....
I guess the ships are actually products of necessity. The Rebel Cruiser is ideal for the geurilla tactics the Rebellion no doubt had to use at the beginning - a quick strike, pulverizing the target with blistering weaponry, and then disappearing before superior forces could be called against it. The Confed Cruiser, on the other hand, was designed to go head to head with an Alein Cruiser - and to turn it into nothing but slag...

What a pity that Dsalk wanted that slugfest to end (Although I respect his wishes). It was kinda fun to just start laying around with insults.....

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We do not live to work, rather, we work to live.

Quote

Originally posted by Begemotike:
**Okay, Ican't argue with that logic. If you're looking for a ship that can take the most punishement and seriously shorten the lives of your enemies the massive Confederate Cruiser is indeed the way to go. I, personally, always take the fast and agile way, and with that in mind I can't see any ship better than the Rebel Cruiser. With the amount of shields and weaponry it carries, and the agility and speed it carries it is dogfighters dream....

**

Agreed.

**I guess the ships are actually products of necessity. The Rebel Cruiser is ideal for the geurilla tactics the Rebellion no doubt had to use at the beginning - a quick strike, pulverizing the target with blistering weaponry, and then disappearing before superior forces could be called against it. The Confed Cruiser, on the other hand, was designed to go head to head with an Alein Cruiser - and to turn it into nothing but slag...

**

Also agreed. In addition, the cheaper price for the rebel cruiser is also probably a factor. It stands to reason that since the rebel cruiser is cheaper, it probably takes less time and cost to build.

**What a pity that Dsalk wanted that slugfest to end (Although I respect his wishes). It was kinda fun to just start laying around with insults.....

**

Also agreed. Exchangng insults is one thing, exchanging INTELLIGENT insults is priceless. I find the art of intelligent insults much neglected in the modern world. I certainly had fun while it lasted.