I'd like to make a few points about the recent Avara bannings, and Avara in general.

1. Two IPs were banned (Missile Man and Edgar's) because we received more than one complaint from more than one person. The complaints seemed credible given their nature, that they came from more than one person, and that the complaints were well-stated. The complaint was that these two were crashing and harrassing other people who were playing Avara.

2. There is no way we can associate an IP address to an eMail address, so attempting to notify these folks in advance was not an option. Given the nature of the complaints against them (crashing/harrassing other people), banning them and letting them contact us seemed more timely and prudent. Keep in mind that this is very much a "he said she said" argument -- somone claims innocence while others claim they are guilty.

3. How long these people have "been around" doesn't matter. Seniority doesn't excuse malicious actions like crashing other people's computers because you're mad at them, or harrassing people who just want o play Avara. Nor do any "community contributions" give anyone license to post insulting, inflamatory comments and engage in infantile "I demand..." arguments -- especially when their mean-spirited actions precipitated the whole debate.

4. Avara has not been updated/enhanced due to a mutual decision between Juri and Ambrosia. The reason is simple: Avara is second only to Chiral in terms of poor sales. Juri as since moved on to other things; updating Avara to enhance it just plain wasn't worth it. I will leave it for you to decide how much of an impact people who pirated Avara had on this; certainly they were a factor. If you don't pay for something, you're voting with your wallet that the developer/publisher shouldn't bother updating/enhancing it.

5. We have provided resources such as this web board, a files area, a newswire, a chronicles section, etc., as well as maintaining the Tracker (and the server cycles/bandwidth that entails) for 5 years and running. That's pretty good for $20, I'd say. Granted, some of the online resources we dormant for a bit, and thus are less used than Avaraline and Avara.org, but that's more of a testament to the great job those folks have done with their sites. I do believe it would be better for the community to consolate into this one web area here for files, stories, guides, news, web boards, etc., but that's more of a political issue than one of practicality.

In summary, the people who were banned were banned for a reason: multiple complaints against them for disrupting the Avara community by harrassing and crashing other Avara players. This is not acceptable behavior, and I think their conduct here on the web boards speaks volumes about the attitudes that led to the banning in the first place.

I'd be happy to unban anyone and everyone if their attitude would demonstrate that they would no longer be to the detriment of other Avara players. So far, I haven't seen that. I've seen only juvenile insults, and the attitude that they are entitled to something simply because they want it, irregardless of their actions.

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Andrew Welch / el Presidente / Ambrosia Software, Inc.
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

I think that accurately sums eveything up. At least he didn't call the home office.

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Captaintripps: Harbinger #1 of Sierra's Law
(url="http://"http://voxhumanasketch.tripod.com/voxhumana/")VoxHumana(/url) -- Comedy of the Future

Ssh, Tripps, don't give him any ideas.

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"My guitar gently weeps." George Harrison, 1943-2001

<< 1) Two IPs were banned (Missile Man and Edgar's) because we received more than one complaint from more than one person. The complaints seemed credible given their nature, that they came from more than one person, and that the complaints were well-stated. The complaint was that these two were crashing and harrassing other people who were playing Avara. >>

I've asked what these complaints are and who they're from. I've never crashed a single person on Avara, my computer simply isn't fast enough. On top of that...prior to my banning, I played in only one server since May. That server was my server...

It was open to the public, meaning if I was mean to anyone, it was because they were being annoying first. I have booted people, but never without good reason. Frankly, I've already proven Yo's final complaint about me was incorrect, and I've been continually asking you for my other complaints, because I feel as if I can prove them all wrong also.

<< 2) There is no way we can associate an IP address to an eMail address, so attempting to notify these folks in advance was not an option. Given the nature of the complaints against them (crashing/harrassing other people), banning them and letting them contact us seemed more timely and prudent. Keep in mind that this is very much a "he said she said" argument -- somone claims innocence while others claim they are guilty. >>

Thank you for explaining the first part. I never thought of it, and it does help when I have an explanation for wh it happened. I've asked for answers why since the first time I posted here, thank you for clearing that up. I don't really mind you trusting the complainer over the person they're complaining about, although I don't like it and hope something can be done about it.

I don't know how much power you guys have, but I would suggest possibly putting the URL to this webboard on the tracker when someone is banned, because I did not know about this place until 2 months afterwards.

<< In summary, the people who were banned were banned for a reason: multiple complaints against them for disrupting the Avara community by harrassing and crashing other Avara players. This is not acceptable behavior, and I think their conduct here on the web boards speaks volumes about the attitudes that led to the banning in the first place. >>

Well, that's wrong. Our conduct here didn't lead to our banning, because our conduct (Mine at least) came 2 months after the actual banning. I don't know why you really expected me to be the type of guy who goes around crashing people though. If you're the El Presidente I remember, you're the guy whose levels I used to beta, and one of the few you trusted with your dance club level. I'm the one who suggested you make the bars on the top of that one secret room able to be shot out because I got stuck on them once. I remember most of the people from this game, and if you told me some of the people complaining about me, maybe I could explain why they'd want me in trouble.

<< I'd be happy to unban anyone and everyone if their attitude would demonstrate that they would no longer be to the detriment of other Avara players. So far, I haven't seen that. I've seen only juvenile insults, and the attitude that they are entitled to something simply because they want it, irregardless of their actions. >>

I'm not detrimental to Avara players. I'm detrimental to Avara board readers. I don't feel I'm entitled to something simply because I want it...I feel I'm entitled to it because it's something I should have. Had you given me a chance to defend myself, you'd have seen I didn't deserve to be banned and therefore I wouldn't have been banned.

Why exactly do you feel you deserve to be treated with respect? Why do you feel I shouldn't call you names or say you do a bad job? You feel I deserve to be banned, and I feel you deserve to be treated bad. I can change my opinion, but I need to be shown you can too.

But since you're not gonna budge and I won't either without a reason, let me suggest a possibility...

Aragorn has stated he too had been unfairly banned. Because he has kept a cool head, he's been completely looked over, and I will take some responsibility. Here is what I propose. I will stop posting entirely starting today 12/17/2001 at 5:00 PM EST and will open the doors for Aragorn. If the situation can be resolved quickly, efficiently, and fairly, I will then take steps in calming myself down and trying to solve our problem. I hope this peace period can prove to you I'm capable of being civil, and that I want things fixed cleanly.

Also, I ask that you please provide an E-mail address in your reply to this so that I'm able to reply and try to get my point across but not disrupt this board. Does this seem fair?

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Originally posted by EdgarHons:
Why exactly do you feel you deserve to be treated with respect? Why do you feel I shouldn't call you names or say you do a bad job? You feel I deserve to be banned, and I feel you deserve to be treated bad. I can change my opinion, but I need to be shown you can too.

You're asking the wrong question. The question should be directed at you, and it should be: Why do you feel you can treat people with a lack of respect, insult them, attack them, and engage in juvenile threats against them and other employees of Ambrosia and other Avara players?

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Aragorn has stated he too had been unfairly banned. Because he has kept a cool head, he's been completely looked over, and I will take some responsibility

We have no desire to ban anyone needlessly. It is likely that Aragorn was banned as collateral damage to banning someone else. If he contacts me directly ( andrew@AmbrosiaSW.com ) I will work it out for him with alacrity.

Something I want you to keep in mind is that merely the time I've spent here fielding these attacks, insults, and questions is far, far more than anyone can reasonably expect from a company president. The hours I've spent reading and responding to the insulting attacks you've posted here have cost us far more in time and money than we've made from Avara in the past year.

Try putting things into perspective when you start attacking people, claiming no support ids given, etc.

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Andrew Welch / el Presidente / Ambrosia Software, Inc.
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

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Originally posted by EdgarHons:
**Aragorn has stated he too had been unfairly banned. Because he has kept a cool head, he's been completely looked over, and I will take some responsibility. Here is what I propose. I will stop posting entirely starting today 12/17/2001 at 5:00 PM EST and will open the doors for Aragorn. If the situation can be resolved quickly, efficiently, and fairly, I will then take steps in calming myself down and trying to solve our problem. I hope this peace period can prove to you I'm capable of being civil, and that I want things fixed cleanly.

**

(just to let you know i didn't read this till a few min b4 this post)

i will be contacting andrew in an hour or to from this time i posted this, i will tell you how it went when i get a reply.

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"There is no spoon." - Neo

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Originally posted by andrew:
**Something I want you to keep in mind is that merely the time I've spent here fielding these attacks, insults, and questions is far, far more than anyone can reasonably expect from a company president. The hours I've spent reading and responding to the insulting attacks you've posted here have cost us far more in time and money than we've made from Avara in the past year.

Try putting things into perspective when you start attacking people, claiming no support ids given, etc.
**

AND when there on vaction! (though running a marathon isn't quite my definition of a vacation :p)

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"There is no spoon." - Neo