I was thinking the other day about how unique and enjoyable Avara was at its time, and how it was the one game that failed to work to a playable level in the OS X "classic" environment (see (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/ubb/newsdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number;=14&forum;=*The+Ambrosia+Times+Newsletter&DaysPrune;=25&article;=000040&startpoint;=)")http://www.Ambrosi aSW.com/cgi-bin/ubb/newsdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number;=14&forum;=*The+Ambrosia+Times+Newsletter&DaysPrune;=25&article;=000040&startpoint;=).://http://www.Ambrosi aSW.com/cgi-bin/...0&startpoint;=)://http://www.Ambrosi aSW.com/cgi-bin/....0&startpoint;=)://http://www.Ambrosi aSW.com/cgi-bin/....0&startpoint;=)(/url). Then, it all clicked - why not ask Ambrosia to write a sequel to the game? I jotted down my ideas onto Stickies, then to an AppleWorks document.. then to this web-board. I may have some other ideas later, but I'll see how this is received. So, here it is; my proposal for an Avara sequel.

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AvaraX.

Avara II for OS X (or Carbon). OpenGL (OS X's strength). Perhaps even make use of the Ragnarok engine. Networkable (up to 8 players, say) and playable with 56k connections. Game Ranger compatible.

mech's; much like the mech shown here; (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/games/avara/images/avara_mech.gif")http://www.AmbrosiaS.../avara_mech.gif(/url)
Except with a more 'virtual reality' feel - they're holographic displays.
a choice of mech's. Perhaps even mech's capable of flight or transformation.
Agility for the mech is important; a review of Avara by Total MacShareware:
"Avara's realtime graphic action will start your heart pounding as you see your opponents bound across the terrain and quickly swoop in behind you. "
none of that heavy "mech" feel. Think "humanoids", not "robots". Kinda like Evangelion... but not quite. I've always thought HECTOR jumped like a frog and ran like an ostrich. That's good!

Gameplay; I for one enjoy building up my characters in a game (eg. in RPG's for example). Perhaps (in single player mode, at least) have upgrades, or "shops" where one could purchase weapons/defenses/items, etc. with the points scored? Or even an ability to gain special 'boss' abilities when you defeat them (similar to MegaMan). Or both! (I thought "gaining levels" would be rather unrealistic for a mech simulation). An ability to carry these into the 'net games would be nice, but these added abilities have to not be so outrageously powerful in a way that would make it unfair in a 'net game involving a (newbie) 'default' mech vs. the (your) 'fully armed' mech. The abilities would have to be pretty unique. Snipering is a good example. It gives the player great advantages in a single player mode, but not enough in a 'net battle.

Concept remains similar... As explained by the Independent Reviewers:
"The word itself is Finnish: literally it means, "wide open spaces." And once you enter into this networkable, 3D environment, you will quickly realise why" and importantly, "Gone are the confines of mazes and predetermined paths of game play.".

If there needs to be a plot; Avara is a system developed in the year 2xxx to serve the needs of an increasingly fussy entertainment industry. It is facilitated in a dome-like structure (think StarTrek's holo-deck) where each player sits within a cockpit, an "avara pod" where the player controls these virtual "mech's" from (multi-player mode). One day, some bad ds<caron>s<caron>d turns up and hacks the system, trapping you in the pod until you can clear a few challenging levels, with powerful bosses (single player mode). Something like that, but more dramatic (I'm sure you can do a better than than I)

Modifiable with plug-ins, which can be made using an editor by an average power user. I never did understand the 'old' method. Plug-ins are very much the "Ambrosia" thing, so why not make them easy to make?

real 'virtual reality' feel, none of that wannabe-reality shoot'em ups. Very 'digital'. Really awe-inspiring. "wide open spaces" within the confinement of a virtual arena. I really liked the ambient noises in the original Avara. Very unique feel.

Not too heavy - no 'explosions' as such; polygons disintegrate, mb sparkles, but no 'fireballs' or explosive noises. Similar to the original, but... more. Maybe even the Final Fantasy style fade out?

Anyway... summing up, I think it's important to keep it very unique. We have enough blood-bath shoot 'em up games available, and we should avoid going down a similar path. Maybe explore the 3rd person perspective more (eg. greater control over the scout)? I very much enjoy in a game the "freedom" to do whatever I want to do in a game, so the engine needs to be very flexible. The game levels should present themselves with an atmosphere, rather like the original Avara, but.. more. They should be awe-inspiring. Something like... inside the StarWars Death Star, a huge structure with incomprehensibly advanced technology and never-endingly deep pits... surreal! Finally, (boy, I'll get flamed for this) I think the game should be available to Windoze users as well. I think Ambrosia deserves to get some $$$ and (sadly) there are far more users on the Dark Side. Heck, it'd give us good 'net targets to shoot as well. This shouldn't have to be too hard with the Ragnarok engine; the game was going to be cross-platform anyway. Sorry if I'm asking the impossible here, I know Ragnarok was cancelled (or "delayed indefinitely")... but what's happened to all that code?

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Phew! I hope I haven't pushed my luck here by ranting about a game that *I * would like, that Ambrosia may never have plans on developing, but I sure do hope there are others who share a similar vision to bring back a classic game under a new light.

If you do think AvaraX is a good idea, why not submit your suggestions for the game? How should the gameplay work? What's a good plot? What should plug-ins be able to modify? What do you want in an Avara sequel?

(Mod Note: Text cleaned up...)

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"The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners."
- Ernst Jan Plugge

(This message has been edited by Taz! (edited 07-03-2001).)

sorry, my apostrophe and inverted commas stuffed up while copying the text from AW :frown:

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I propose to you the Avara sequel; (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/webboard/Forum4/HTML/000124.html")AvaraX(/url)

I think you should get started coding right now. When should we expect it to be done?

I think you shouldn't post anything else about this new game until you have a beta for us to test. Thanks for your ideas though, and let us know when it's ready for testing.

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This signature is funny. Please read it again.

Quote

Originally posted by Taz!:
**I think you should get started coding right now. When should we expect it to be done?

I think you shouldn't post anything else about this new game until you have a beta for us to test. Thanks for your ideas though, and let us know when it's ready for testing.

**

erm.. sorry if I was unclear on a few things, but I thought mb Ambrosia could do it
I'm just putting forward some ideas

Quote

Then, it all clicked - why not ask Ambrosia to write a sequel to the game?

or were you j/k?

ah well... it seemed like a good idea at the time :rolleyes:

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I propose to you the Avara sequel; (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/webboard/Forum4/HTML/000124.html")AvaraX(/url)

Well, first off, Ambrosia Software didn't write Avara, Juri Munkki did. As far as I know Ambrosia Software provided a means of distribution, and some bits of code to help it along, and the "Ambrosia Software" name recognition.

Ambrosia Software - in and by itself - doesn't usually code games - excluding the archetype Maelstrom of course. Am I forgetting another? Perhaps.

So- and I'm not joking. If you want to see a sequel to Avara, start coding. Write the graphics engine - whip out the network tool - nail down the physics environment. When you have all that (oh- and a registration tool also), let us know here. Once you get the basics done- and show you can actually do it, Ambrosia Software may be interested in helping you polish it off. Bear in mind I do not speak for Ambrosia software (as duly stated on the site), I speak from my perception of what Ambrosia Software does.

I don't think this thread can be of much more help. I think I've covered most of the major bases here.

Ideas are a dime a dozen. Bad ideas are even cheaper. Actions speak volumes. Do not try- do. Go forth and start coding, and good luck.

Closing thread soon™.

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This signature is funny. Please read it again.

Quote

Originally posted by Taz!:
So- and I'm not joking. If you want to see a sequel to Avara, start coding. Write the graphics engine - whip out the network tool - nail down the physics environment. When you have all that (oh- and a registration tool also), let us know here.

ah.. I see

in that case... anyone willing to take up this project??
I'm not a programmer, and I don't think my RealBasic skills are up to it :rolleyes:

Thanks for your response, Taz, you can close the thread if you like

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latta latta

I'm afraid there's no help from my quarter; programming is about sixth on my list of possible future careers, and falling.

There have been literally hundreds of suggestions for an Avara II. It's not going to happen; by the time anyone with the skill sets themselves up to such a project, there'll be better technology that allows for much more interesting game types. Still, it's fun to dream ... so, on that note, here's how I would implement the shops in such a way not to disadvantage newbies:

For each game, have say 20 distribution points that can be spent on better weapons, a more agile HECTOR, etc. Non-transferable between games. You might even have a way to set how many distribution points a given game will allow. This gives the individualized "shop" feel while still allowing any two people to approach the battlefield as equals (they will leave the battlefield with one humiliated and the other having proven his/her skill, but that's another matter).

Ah well, just a dream. Still, Taz, I don't see any reason to close the thread, at least not until people start insulting the Ambrosia team. Who knows, maybe we can inspire someone.

Quote

Originally posted by Taz!:
**So- and I'm not joking. If you want to see a sequel to Avara, start coding. Write the graphics engine - whip out the network tool - nail down the physics environment. When you have all that (oh- and a registration tool also), let us know here. Once you get the basics done- and show you can actually do it, Ambrosia Software may be interested in helping you polish it off. Bear in mind I do not speak for Ambrosia software (as duly stated on the site), I speak from my perception of what Ambrosia Software does.
**

I may be wrong, but I believe that AmbrosiaSW will provide the registration tool. And you don't necessarily have to finish the project before Ambrosia will join up. However, you do have to display sufficient programming talent, and prove to a credible degree that it will be finished, which may involve waiting until it's nearly done. now then, enough of disagreeing with the mods...

I think that Avara is fine the way it is. The only thing I could wish for is the ability for more people to play at once, but Avara is still an awsome game. I can see someone coming into the Avara gaming community and producing a sequel, and really screwing up the feel of the game in the process. We don't really need a sequel. About the only thing needed is an update to account for OSX. Other than that it's a fine game; if people don't play it because they fail to be impressed by the graphics and other eye candy, it is at their own loss.

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Pinky, Are you pondering what I am pondering?
I think so, Brain, but if they called them sad meals, kids wouldn't buy them.

Honestly I think Taz! is right. ASW doesn't seem to be maintaining a climate where an AvaraII will ever be produced. I think they may be going further into tools production eventually. You can still hope though.

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Captaintripps, proudly dispensing bad advice since before you were born.

Heh, I remember Archer gathering resources within AA in hopes of taking on Avara II.

I still say some nifty Programmer could spit out a Quake 3 mod that could come real close to the Avara world.

Still Mace, (nice to see you on here btw), the movement would be screwed up. wouldn't be the same. Best thing to do would be a mechwarrior mod or something. It wouldn't be as popular, but the movement would be somewhat nearly the same. Anyway, last I knew there was an avara 2 project going on, but I've been gone for a month, so I don't know where it's at right now. That's my 2 cents... and it's all I have left after spending all my money on the month long vacation

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-Kyle "Vader" Blessing
-May the force be with you

Ahem...I already had an Idea for that but It was a mod.

Go here (url="http://"http://www.netformz.org/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/UltraBoard.pl")www.netformz.org/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/UltraBoard.pl(/url) and go to The Future.Sorry to tell you but Avara II is already started.