(QUOTE)Originally posted by Yujenisis:
(B)According to Abrosia, the amount of work they put into Avara, was not worth the profit they made off it.

chalk one up for inept marketing... they really had a great game but had no clue as to what to do with it.

. The piracy of the game, or whatever else caused the game to not return much profit,

chalk up another one to piker idiocy... once you've screwed up you can either make amends or cast blame ...

avara could have be a real commercial release
avara 2 could have been the best thing ever
os x and the proliferation of broadband makes virtual any suggestions for features possible:
50 hectors matches
full game monitoring/control while in play
automated latency compensation
fragged player isolation
no need to abort again, ever

where do i send my $100??? oh thats right, their still whining about how much money they didnt make. idiots.

Is aftershock good? I downoaded it and stuffit wouldn't unstuff the PoS.

------------------
"How can i make it go faster"?

The captain of the
A.S.S. Phoenix

Quote

Originally posted by Adzara:
**Is aftershock good? I downoaded it and stuffit wouldn't unstuff the PoS.
**

AS 1.5 is twice as good as Avara, and 5 times as good as the original AS.

And my opinion -> If Ambrosia isn't making any money out of it, and they refuse to make a sequal, then they should make it open source, and sell the rights to someone like MacSoft or Bungie or Aspyr. That way (if what they say is true) they will make SOME money out of it. Possibly. And if they don't, they won't lose any money.

El Barto

Quote

Originally posted by El Barto:
**AS 1.5 is twice as good as Avara, and 5 times as good as the original AS.

And my opinion -> If Ambrosia isn't making any money out of it, and they refuse to make a sequal, then they should make it open source, and sell the rights to someone like MacSoft or Bungie or Aspyr. That way (if what they say is true) they will make SOME money out of it. Possibly. And if they don't, they won't lose any money.

El Barto**

Right on El, With the code, we can at least ad a few features in it (I want avara to have textures damnit!). If any Ambrosia Officals read this, please take El's (and I"m sure many other people want this too) into consideration! We NEED an Avara 2, and if oyu ugys dont get off you butt's and do something abour it, let the people who accually care do something about it! Enough of my ramblings...

-Kyle "Vader" Blessing

Avara 2 would be a great idea. With regards to money, I don't know about anyone else, but I put an extra effort into totally destroying expired and hacked users. I also registered less than a month after I got Avara. With regards to features, here is a list of things that I would like to see in Avara

Raytracing
Patternmapping
The ability to choose a skin for your H.E.C.T.O.R.
More single player training maps
A tracker server (separate though included program)
Accessories for your H.E.C.T.O.R. (Cloaking device, jump jets, etc)
More impact from total mass, not just hull design
A reason not to take full missiles or granades (except as a handicap)

Note that I am thinking of Avara 2, not Avara 2.0 There is a difference. Instead of just putting out a compatable system, put out a whole new version with it's own tracker and games (not neccesarily compatible with Avara 1.01)

I suggest reading:
(url="http://"http://www.maccentral.com/news/0005/30.playmakers.shtml")http://www.maccentra...laymakers.shtml(/url)

(mostly for these screenshots):
(url="http://"http://www.maccentral.com/news/0005/images/playambscoop1.jpg")http://www.maccentra...ayambscoop1.jpg(/url)
(url="http://"http://www.maccentral.com/news/0005/images/playambscoop2.jpg")http://www.maccentra...ayambscoop2.jpg(/url)
(url="http://"http://www.maccentral.com/news/0005/images/playambscoop3.jpg")http://www.maccentra...ayambscoop3.jpg(/url)

In other words, we already have an extremely capable continuous level of detail terrain engine, upon which 3D objects (ala Avara) can be placed.

------------------
Andrew Welch / el Presidente / Ambrosia Software, Inc.

YAY! Go to the Avara Level Design forums, and go into the "Aftershock" section. Then read "The Futer". GrassRoots (a.k.a. Mark) has started a team (I'm on it, that's why I'm posting this :D) to make an unofficial Avara 2. El Barto has also started one. One way or another, Avara 2 will come out. Just thought everyone should know that.

------------------
First I was a learner,
But now I am the master

Kyle "Vader" Blessing

Quote

Originally posted by El Barto:
**AS 1.5 is twice as good as Avara, and 5 times as good as the original AS.

And my opinion -> If Ambrosia isn't making any money out of it, and they refuse to make a sequal, then they should make it open source, and sell the rights to someone like MacSoft or Bungie or Aspyr. That way (if what they say is true) they will make SOME money out of it. Possibly. And if they don't, they won't lose any money.

El Barto**

That's one common misconception -- open sourcing a product/project isn't merely giving up the revenue from that product and giving the source code to people.

It's actually creating a support nightmare for the publisher -- when you release something to the public, despite your disclaimers, they will still often turn to you for support, and become angry if they don't get it.

People also associate the name of a product with the company that originally published it, and thus (again despite the disclaimers) new versions created by other people can be support issues for the original company.

Also simply the logistics of giving out the source code are problematic, support-wise. You can't just compress the source code and then upload it -- what happens when everyone and his brother downloads the code, and has a problem because of their inexperience or unfamiliarity with developing software?

Let's say you download the source code to product X, which was developed using CodeWarrior Pro 2. You have a more recent version of Code Warrior, and the source code doesn't compile. Many people will (they think reasonably) complain to the publisher who put the source code out there.

Do we hire a full-time developmental-savvy tech support person to handle such inquries/problems? Do we simply ignore people who write to us with problems compiling the code or using versions of the product others have compiled (doing so is a sure way to piss people off, and not exactly a wise thing to do).

These are just a few scenerios; I can tell you from experience that it is by no means a matter of "just releasing the code" -- it doesn't work like that, unfortunately.

------------------
Andrew Welch / el Presidente / Ambrosia Software, Inc.

Then why not release it to a differn't company who might accually do somehting with it?! Just contact someone at Symbiote Software, they will care...

------------------
First I was a learner,
But now I am the master

Kyle "Vader" Blessing

I think that Avara 2 would be a kind bad idea, it would split up he tightly nit community of fanatics. Just look what happened to he Avara community after Aftershock was realised.

I think that there should be a couple of updates for Avara :

OpenGl
More Player capabilities
DECENT RENDERING
More Weapons

------------------
--------------------------
Wham!Man - The original and still the best

Ambrosia only has one, and only one, NETWORKABLE game. That happens to be Avara.

The last time I played Avara (almost 2 years ago) were during the days of QuickDraw acceleration and ATI Rage cards on those beige G3s. Clearly, Avara is a very dated game. Avara came out even before OpenGL become the defacto standard for Mac 3D games.

So can Avara 2 be a success? Very possible. If Ambrosia simply makes a modern 3D gladiator tank/vehicle/battlezone type game to compete directly with other 3D titles, then it will be a total failure. There are hundreds of those kind of games available for PCs already.

For Avara 2 to succeed, it has to have that unique Ambrosia game quality to it. It must have a game style and feel all its own.

I hope that Ambrosia at least has the courage to CONSIDER doing an Avara 2. The concept has potential.

One puzzling question: why doesn't Ambrosia do more networkable games? They seen to have a hang-up when it comes to making networkable games.

umm, I'm sorry, you must not have heard about "Ares"...
it's networkable too...

Hmmmmm... Well, if they did come out with an Avara 2, these are some things I would like in it.

1. Better Graphics: I don't mind the plain graphics in Avara, but I would be nice if Avara 2 had really nice graphics, like in the Avara intro screen.

2. More expandable: If Avara 2 were even more expandable than Avara, then that would really attract more players.

3. Rockets: Avara so far has grenades, missiles, and plasma lasers. How about rockets? That would make the game a bit more interesting. And if it could be made so that turret cannons or UFOs could fire them, that would also be interesting.

Even if Avara 2 had only one of these features, I would still like it a lot better! However there is one thing that has to happen, make it so that the player would have a better reason for registering. With Avara, there really isn't any big reason to register. If Ambrosia did that and at least one of the things above, I would love an Avara 2!!

------------------

Avara 2? Yes--but perhaps in an open-source partnership with Ambrosia & the game's author, and the Avara community.

Here's why: Though I give great credit to Ambrosia and Mr. Munkki for developing the game, the real strength in Avara has never been the game solely on its own. It is rather plain by today's game standards, and there is little fun to be had without internet play. Rather, what makes Avara fun is the community of players, and the extensible architecture that allows that community to make the game better with creative level design.

Imagine Avara with only 'net levels' and 'berserker fury' to choose from. The community of Avara players and level developers allows the game to 'feel new' each time you play, and has given the game a life far beyond what was expected.

I think that any community willing to build hundreds of games levels--not to mention the development of Aftershock--deserves to be a major player in a 2.0 revision of Avara.

~ Lt. Dada

I've given some thought to this, but maybe not an avara 2, but maybe 1.5 with better level scripting, 3 new hectors (Flamethrower, medic, and Bazooka maybe), A Radar system like in the N64 shooters Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, fix the keyboard window bug, and add some textures. I really wanted to see a level about D-Day with some nice AI, but that would be hard and I cant make levels. Well people, good day!

------------------
--------------------------------
YoSeMiTe.
Not the park, not the
comp, just lil old me,
Yos.

I think that they should make an Avara 2 because more and more people are playing internet gamesnow then when Avara was first released. If they don't have the manpower for programing they could get help from a 3rd Party. Also I thing they should have a built in Level Editor in the program to make it easier to make levels.

One thing you have to realize is that if making levels were easy, everybody and there cousin would have a buttload of levels out. I'm not saying that is a bad thing! But what I am saying is, if it is hard to make them, then the people who accually take the time to make the levels and eventualy get better at the scripting, generaly put out some good levels. heh, my first ones REALLY stunk, but everone who has seen my latest beta is in awe of it Just look at all the level making guides and learn the scripting language, and it wil be easy So, with having the level making being a little dificult, it's a sort of "natural seleciton" on what kind of levels are made...

------------------
First I was a learner,
But now I am the master

Kyle "Vader" Blessing

Hi AllŞ

Everyone go here: (url="http://"http://www.roberthall.net/Spencer/ACT")www.roberthall.net/Spencer/ACT(/url) , its the link to the HEV site. Its a game the Avara Community is makeing, with similar gameplay to Avara/AS, but the rest (net gameing, graphics, etc etc) will be VERY different. Its gonna be cool :-).

El Barto

Quote

Originally posted by andrew:
**That's one common misconception -- open sourcing a product/project isn't merely giving up the revenue from that product and giving the source code to people.

It's actually creating a support nightmare for the publisher -- when you release something to the public, despite your disclaimers, they will still often turn to you for support, and become angry if they don't get it.
**

Could be... I have never experienced this with Arashi source code though.

Is this why the open source Maelstrom is so hard to find? For a time, while I was looking for it, I thought that I might have imagined its existence completely.

Anyway, I posted this article 15 minutes ago:

(url="http://"http://www.netformz.com/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/UltraBoard.pl?Action=ShowPost&Board;=GEN2&Post;=46")http://www.netformz....rd=GEN2&Post=46(/url)

I feel ashamed for not getting the release done two years ago, but at the same time all this talk of risks and license agreements confuses the h*** out of me.