Whud ar you lookin at?

there aint nuttin here anymore foo

wanna start sumthin?

(Topic closed...)

(This message has been edited by Jimmy Page 1 (edited 06-19-2002).)

Tyrael
Eastlegion
11 out of 17 (at least)

First of all, 6 should go because they actually violate the rules in that the same opponant was played more than once on the same day. Also, the other 5 I personally think should go. I like the idea of not being able to play the same person more than once officially every 3 days. That way you can't just play them everyday and win by the sheer volume of games you play. It would put some type of a restriction on it.

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"I'm a controversial figure. My friends either dislike me or hate me."

Whoops, forgot the other half and the edit button isn't working. Yes, I think she is guilty of ladder abuse. After all, you condemned Steel Fire for the same thing, it would make sense to continue the stance you've set.

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"I'm a controversial figure. My friends either dislike me or hate me."

Quote

Originally posted by Jimmy Page 1:
**Here is a record of all games played by a guy named gridoney on magleague...

All games played by grindoney since 2/1/2002

NOTE THE WINNER IS LISTED FIRST, THE LOSER IS LISTED LAST.
06/18/02 12:47:20 EDT Fyrephin, grindoney,
06/17/02 14:48:47 EDT Fyrephin, grindoney,
06/14/02 13:56:01 EDT Fyrephin, grindoney,
06/10/02 16:49:38 EDT Admiral, grindoney,
06/10/02 11:29:35 EDT Fyrephin, grindoney,
06/09/02 17:45:56 EDT Fyrephin, grindoney,
06/08/02 20:33:36 EDT Fyrephin, grindoney,
06/08/02 10:26:43 EDT Fyrephin, grindoney,
06/07/02 16:42:31 EDT Fyrephin, grindoney,
06/07/02 16:42:04 EDT Fyrephin, grindoney,
06/06/02 18:07:50 EDT Fyrephin, grindoney,
06/05/02 20:24:02 EDT Fyrephin, grindoney,
06/02/02 13:09:42 EDT Fyrephin, grindoney,
06/01/02 07:54:32 EDT Fyrephin, grindoney,
05/28/02 12:42:23 EDT Fyrephin, grindoney,
05/28/02 12:42:21 EDT Fyrephin, grindoney,
05/28/02 04:57:30 EDT Fyrephin, grindoney,
05/28/02 04:57:04 EDT Fyrephin, grindoney,

GRINDONEY HAS AN 0/18 RECORD ON MAGLEAGUE
17 GAMES WERE AGAINST FYREPHIN

I think you've played him enough...lets not abuse the ladder.

(does anybody know if grindoney is even a real person? grindoney are you out there??!!? lol)

I'm considering deleting about 3/4ths of these games. I had to delete a bunch of games from steel fire when he pulled this, and I'm wondering if I should do it to Fyrephin.

My only problem is that the rules about playing the same person over and over are not stated specifically. I have already deleted games he played against the same person on the same day, because that's a violation, but I do not know what to do about this.

The fact is, fyrephin is about to take over third place from skyblade because she is abusing the ladder. Skyblade cannot play ares games anymore from what I understand from patrick, so he cannot counter your ridiculous amount of games against the same person. And to be honest with you, I think skyblade deserves his third place spot on the hall of fame.

Looking at his record you will see that he played a wide variety of players of all different skill levels. He even took a chance and challenged the #1 ranked me and the #2 ranked pat. Even though he lost, he still didn't back out of the challenge, and those were the only two losses on his record.

However I am not a judge and jury. So that is why I am turning this decision over to the people on the boards. I encourage everyone to look over all the facts on magleague, and to offer any additional information they may have. I'd like this to be finalized before the ares tourniment begins, so I'm asking everyone to be the jury.

The question is--IS FYREPHIN GUILTY OF ABUSING THE LADDER, AND HOW MANY GAMES SHOULD I DELETE?

Please respond in this format:

1. state your magleague name
2. state any magleague clans you are in on the ares ladder.
3. state your verdict and how many games out of 17 I should delete
4. state your explanation

NOBODY is allowed to counter somebody's verdict, and you may only vote once. Clan members will be considered a half of a vote.

You must have at least 25 posts in order for your vote to be counted.

All responses must be in this format.

**

that is not right. all votes should count weather they have a lot of posts or not. and im sure that you being the all mighty JimmyPage will have a lot of support. all votes should count evenly weather they have 3 posts or 3000 posts. what you are saying basicly is that newbies are not good enuff to vote. just like america did with the blacks. i must demand this be altered.
-----

name:Admiral
clan: TNT
games to delete: 0
explaination: grindoney is a real person. i have talked to her on AIM twice. the games should not be discounted simply because grindoney is a bad player. grindoney had also tried several times to get on the clan TNT. and if you dont want Skyblade to lose fame then make another page for all the most outstanding players. grindoney is also a little upsaet because Fyrephin wont let her join. i must admit Fyrephin has bent the rules a little to make it easier for grindoney to get into TNT. Fyrephin is not at all breaking a rule writen or not. now you may find that grindoney uses Fyrephin's computer, but that is just like how my friend will be using my computer for a few days from the 27th-1st. and he will use my accout in GameRanger for his games. but the point is that Fyrephin is quite a good honest person. just as good as anyone else here.

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Insanity has its advantages

Uh, Jimmy, are you or are you not the admin/coordinator of Mag Ares? What the hell are you asking us for? You are so wracked by indecision that you need a second, third, fourth, fifth etc... opinion?

Well, personally, I think that if you're going to make it so that people can't do this sort of thing, then why not put a cap on how many points a player can earn per/day or whatever. If it's over a long time, then really, put a cap on how many points a player can earn against another player.

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There are only 3 kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't.

1. state your magleague name
   Patrick
2. state any magleague clans you are in on the ares ladder.
   Eastlegion
3. state your verdict and how many games out of 17 I should delete
   Guilty. Delete the games which were played on the same day. Ask Fyrephin to refrain from playing mag games vs grindoney until July when we get the new rating system implemented(which will make playing a million games vs someone who is not that good practically worthless to the ladder points)
4. state your explanation
   I think we need to go by the stated rules. While all the games vs grindoney are rather annoying to me as well, there is no rule about abusing the ladder in such a manner. We won't have to worry about this kind of stuff once July arrives so there really isn't a need to make an example.

I would suggest that if Fyrephin does in fact pass Cpt. Skyblade before June 30, we expand the hall of fame to the top 4 for this season and make note of the fact that (11?) of Fyrephin's games were against the same person who has a 0/18 record and put that on the HoF.

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Originally stated by Reichsmarschall Hermann Goering:
Naturally the common people don't want war...but after all it is the leaders of a country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along....All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.

Quote

Originally posted by Joveia:
**Uh, Jimmy, are you or are you not the admin/coordinator of Mag Ares? What the hell are you asking us for? You are so wracked by indecision that you need a second, third, fourth, fifth etc... opinion?

Well, personally, I think that if you're going to make it so that people can't do this sort of thing, then why not put a cap on how many points a player can earn per/day or whatever. If it's over a long time, then really, put a cap on how many points a player can earn against another player.

**

Jimmy, Laguna, and I are the MaG ares admins. This is in fact a rather difficult topic, due to the fact that what Fyrephin has done(except for the games on the same day) is not directly against the letter of the rules, although it perhaps violates their "spirit". I can understand why he wanted other opinions(although the jury trial thing is perhaps a bit too much )

In July we're implementing a new scoring system based upon a modified version of the Elo system used by battle.net which will prevent a high rated player from continuing to power his way up the ranks by playing someone with a 0/500505 rec.

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Originally stated by Reichsmarschall Hermann Goering:
Naturally the common people don't want war...but after all it is the leaders of a country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along....All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.

Quote

Originally posted by U.E. Admiral:
**that is not right. all votes should count weather they have a lot of posts or not. and im sure that you being the all mighty JimmyPage will have a lot of support. all votes should count evenly weather they have 3 posts or 3000 posts. what you are saying basicly is that newbies are not good enuff to vote. just like america did with the blacks. i must demand this be altered.

**

Firstly, the Ares boards don't really have much in newbies at the moment, and chances of suddenly getting lots of newbies coming in during the trial are pretty slim. We don't get much traffic around here. Secondly, I believe that this rule is to stop people, most likely Fyrephin, from creating several accounts and only using them this once to strengthen their vote. Now, I may be wrong, but I belive that this is it.

1. Bilefroth
2. none
3. Same as Patrick. All the games played between the two on the same day, which would to me appear to be 5. I'm not sure how Tyrael got 6, but is suspect that it's because there's one where gridoney played twice on the same day against different people.
4. Same as Patrick. His ideas make good sense to me.

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"Vampiric chickens are spiffy. Bak bak bak ARRR!"

(This message has been edited by Mag Steelglass (edited 06-19-2002).)

Quote

Originally posted by U.E. Admiral:
**just like america did with the blacks. i must demand this be altered.

**

Now, let's not get carried away here. Keep it civil.

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the 25 posts thing was in place for the exact reason that mag steel mentioned.

firstly, this whole "judge and jury" thing is just to get people interested in the topic. I could have just been boring about it and asked you in a couple sentences, but i couldn't get to sleep last night so this is what i ended up doing instead...lol

secondly, this is a touchy issue and i don't want anybody to feel like the mag ares admins are overstepping their boundaries if we go ahead and delete some of the games, so i'm just seeing what everyone thinks.

so tell us what you think about this just like some of you already have.

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ramble on..
--Jimmy Page
(list)
(*)(Leader of TĹG, Leader of Ares Empire, Magleague Ares Admin and guitar legend thoughout the sol system)

as i said befor, Fyrephin is a nice honest person. she would not do such a thing(allthough it is a great idea that i hadn't thought of :p). and i have recived an email from her. she is hurt and outraged quite a bit from the topic as am i. its kinda like telling your friend about something personal then they go an blab it all over the school. i will email her and tell her not to play grindoney till july. but i ask, let this topic die or have a MOD delete it.

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Insanity has its advantages

Col. El Patr: fyrephin left?
U.E. Admiral: ya. she emailed me saying so.
U.E. Admiral: she now hates JP with all her being and i can see why.
Col. El Patr: hrm?
Col. El Patr: why
U.E. Admiral: check the boards.
U.E. Admiral: i posted.
Col. El Patr: cause he took the 6 games away?
U.E. Admiral: no
Col. El Patr: or cause he asked the board for advice/
U.E. Admiral: its like telling your friend a personal thing and then they go blab it all over the town.
U.E. Admiral: being accused of cheating is very painfull.
Col. El Patr: but it is true
U.E. Admiral: no
U.E. Admiral: she did not cheat.
U.E. Admiral: grindoney is a real peron.
Col. El Patr: yes
U.E. Admiral: takeing the games is ok but the accusations are very painfull.
Col. El Patr: eh. i take it you refer to "is grindoney even a real person lol"
U.E. Admiral: especialy now that everyone that goes t the ares breifing room will now have an attidude towrd her.
U.E. Admiral: repent!!
Col. El Patr: eh, well i didnt see anyone ostracize steel firebird
Col. El Patr: after he played 20 games vs his dad
U.E. Admiral: repent your evil doings!!
Col. El Patr: all vics
Col. El Patr: lol
Col. El Patr: afk
U.E. Admiral: and if you get JP to apologize via email she may just come back again.
Col. El Patr: i see
Col. El Patr: mind if I post this log on the board?
U.E. Admiral: i dont think it could hurt.
Col. El Patr: oh yah, about firebird, no one cared once he said it was his dad and some of the games were removed
Col. El Patr: don't see why it would be different for anyone else

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Originally stated by Reichsmarschall Hermann Goering:
Naturally the common people don't want war...but after all it is the leaders of a country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along....All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.

Aight, well i'm sorry i didn't just delete the games without asking people what they thought about it.

I was making sure that I wasn't making a rash decision. It's not exactly listed in the rules about this sort of stuff, so I wanted to make sure people felt it would be alright to delete games.

As it turns out, there has been some discussion on whether it is right or wrong, and that's why I asked before I did anything.

Personally, i don't think anybody here holds a grudge now against fyrephin or anything, and i'm sorry if she feels that way.

The new mag ladder will be quite different this july. Many of these discrepencies should not pop up anymore in the future.

We'll delete only a few games I guess, and this topic will be closed. I wish more people could of commented on it, but that's that, end of story.

Fyrephin is not a cheater, she just didn't see any rule about overplaying a single person. This has happened before, but I just wanted to make sure everyone thought it was OK before I deleted the games.

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ramble on..
--Jimmy Page
(list)
(*)(Leader of TĹG, Leader of Ares Empire, Magleague Ares Admin and guitar legend thoughout the sol system)

Yes, a lock seems appropriate.

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