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    • Coldstone and uDevGame 2003

       Coldstone Web Board
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      Hello, it has been a very long time since I visited this forum. Last year I posted (do a search) in this forum about having Coldstone allowed for uDevGame entries. After much debate, we decided not to allow any "game-making wizards" type tools in uDevGame 2002. The community over at iDevGames, the staff and I are currently debating whether to alter the contest from "Macintosh Game Programming Contest" to "Macintosh Game Making Contest." If we go with the "making", then I think Coldstone is fine, however if we stick with "programming", then based on my time with Coldstone, then most likely it won't be allowed again this year. (FYI, the reason the contest was begun was to increase the amount of Mac-specific source code for Mac game developers to learn from.)

      Now that the contest is in its 3rd year, we are at a cross-roads so I would like to include the Coldstone community but need to wiegh many issues.

      One question I have, again I have used Coldstone for about 2 hours in total. Do you as a Coldstone user, find the ability to look at another user's project helpful and educational? (ie A C programmer can look at another programmers code, and if well written or commented, learn things to help them in their own games)

      Please note that the contest has a rule (which won't change) that all entries must be compressed to under 10MB or less. From my limited time with Coldstone, I'm not even sure if it is possible to get a game playable compressed down to that size.

      Anyhow, I'd like to hear from anyone who would consider entering uDevGame 2003. So send your comments to:

      editor@idevgames.com

      or I welcome your comments in our forum message board called "uDevGame"

      p.s. You can find more about last year's contest ($15,000 total prizes) through the links on the top page at idevgames.com

      Cheers

      Carlos Camacho
      Editor-in-Chief
      iDevGames

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      Quote

      Originally posted by Camacho:
      Hello, it has been a very long time since I visited this forum. Last year I posted (do a search) in this forum about having Coldstone allowed for uDevGame entries. After much debate, we decided not to allow any "game-making wizards" type tools in uDevGame 2002. The community over at iDevGames, the staff and I are currently debating whether to alter the contest from "Macintosh Game Programming Contest" to "Macintosh Game Making Contest." If we go with the "making", then I think Coldstone is fine, however if we stick with "programming", then based on my time with Coldstone, then most likely it won't be allowed again this year. (FYI, the reason the contest was begun was to increase the amount of Mac-specific source code for Mac game developers to learn from.)

      I at least remember. I think I was the one who told it it didn't seem right within the strictures of the rules... anyway. 🙂

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      One question I have, again I have used Coldstone for about 2 hours in total. Do you as a Coldstone user, find the ability to look at another user's project helpful and educational? (ie A C programmer can look at another programmers code, and if well written or commented, learn things to help them in their own games)**

      Hmm. Yes, and no. If it is properly done, perhaps with a readme file that explains in a bit more detail, then looking at another game maker's source files to see how they pulled off a particular action within the engine can be quite rewarding. As it stands, Coldstone is a fairly structured program, but with clever, lateral thinking and Event scripting, users have shown how to effectively bypass various built in limitations, thinking outside the square, as it were. If they made sure to note how they did it, the source would be a handy aid indeed.

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      **
      Please note that the contest has a rule (which won't change) that all entries must be compressed to under 10MB or less. From my limited time with Coldstone, I'm not even sure if it is possible to get a game playable compressed down to that size.**

      And that I see as the real main hurdle. One of the main touted features of Coldstone is making complete, fully featured games with lovely graphics, music etc. As an example here, the Medieval game template that comes with Coldstone compiles in at (iirc) slightly over 20MB, twice as large. Of course, if users wanted they could probably do something in sketchy art, without music or perhaps with midi music etc. and weigh it in under 10MB. It depends, really. It can be done, but it is a bit limiting.

      Myself, I'd like to see users with the time on their hands and the ability have a go, if it was allowed. It'd help raise the consciousness of Coldstone in the wider community, at least, and could be a positive boost for us here. At any rate, if you do decide to allow us Coldstoners into the contest, I'm sure you'll get some applicants. It'd be interesting, to say none the least.

      -Andiyar

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      "Any good that I may do here, let me do now, for I may not pass this way again"

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      im betting stuff like ellrx's card game could get in at under 10 megs. maybe some demos of sorts could make it but barely.

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      (url="http://"http://www.redknightentertainment.com/rkewerks/htmldavesworld/coldstonelinkspage.html")Coldstone Links For - Art, 3D, Animation, Problem Solving, Tips and tricks.(/url) Morvera ner Morden

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      source files, are useless to read, unless they are properly named and a concept file with delimited instruction/concept/ideas is included.

      10mb, is entirely possible i have a working shooter with well over 1000 graphics that is a measily 7.8mb includes music and surprise my sounds have the largest file size (currently 2mb). hint: png,resource fork, graphic converter. CGE only contributes 1000k to your game size, the rest depends on project management and knowledge.

      the card game if very simple, would be about 72 images
      52 for the deck (psst more like 26, stamp controls and or launch animation flags)
      20 +.- for interface (deal,shuffle,bg tile,cursor,win,lose,hit,fold,bankroll,all purpose dialog graphic,about pic, and 9 other miscellaneous effects...)

      and lets give you a planning phase of 2 weeks,
      and a generous 6 week span to complete
      (hey be aware if you use npcs you complicate the process, stick to variables, conditionals, arrays and animations/stamp controls are your bread and butter.)

      and 2 more weeks to test/tweak...package--deploy.

      no one ever said it had to be an RPG
      looks like i'll be expecting company...

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      ... I'm like Imhotep but don't flaunt it.

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      duh duh duh duh, deh deh deh deh, dih dih dih dih, dah dah dah daaaaaaaah.............. (throws cape about and leaves)

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      (url="http://"http://www.redknightentertainment.com/rkewerks/htmldavesworld/coldstonelinkspage.html")Coldstone Links For - Art, 3D, Animation, Problem Solving, Tips and tricks.(/url) Morvera ner Morden

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      Like ellrx said, the source code wouldn't be very useful, especially in your context.

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      Just pimpin' my (url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/dampeoples/iblog/dampeoples")scandalous stories(/url),(url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/dampeoples/damcam.html")voyeur cam(/url), (url="http://"http://www.dampeoples.com")stuff(/url), (url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/dampeoples/artlinks/stuff.html")art tutorial links(/url), and (url="http://"http://www.thejbfc.com")Fishing!(/url)

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      Quote

      Originally posted by DJ:
      **duh duh duh duh, deh deh deh deh, dih dih dih dih, dah dah dah daaaaaaaah.............. (throws cape about and leaves)

      **

      urmperrrrr, urmperrrrr... :: vox :: does that mean you'll be entering a card game.

      duhn der, der duhn dunnnit dun,dun derrh dun dun dunnn

      siting, this recent turn of events i think i'll be making th elicense on my methods more verbose, explaining that intellectual property incorporated into a resulting body of work must be cited...or just out of the kindness of your hearts you could all just throw me into the thank you section of the credits.

      ...pssst i have a method for animated scrolling credits...chances are you already know how to do a form of it, but this is slightly different. if you use this one, it'd make for a very interesting thank you "credit scrolling: eLL' Walker"

      source code:
      Also aside from the actual files being named. All event actions owuld have to be properly named...that naming technique PDF(Ari Feldmen) in the addons section makes for a good guideline.

      ------------------

      ... I'm like Imhotep but don't flaunt it.

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      urmperrrrr, urmperrrrr... :: vox :: does that mean you'll be entering a card game.

      hell no, i cant even begin to think of the work invlolved with that let alone bugging my friend to switch in that direction. it was more of a musical number for your exit 🙂

      although i did have quick visions of poker themed games like medieval scifi or western which would be cool coupled with specific dialects to each genre. if you have any inklings in those directions i think i could swing some graphics your way 4 free 4 fun etc. sounds like a larf.

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      (url="http://"http://www.redknightentertainment.com/rkewerks/htmldavesworld/coldstonelinkspage.html")Coldstone Links For - Art, 3D, Animation, Problem Solving, Tips and tricks.(/url) Morvera ner Morden

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      Quote

      Originally posted by Camacho:
      One question I have, again I have used Coldstone for about 2 hours in total. Do you as a Coldstone user, find the ability to look at another user's project helpful and educational?

      To at least some extent, yes. The data files (NPCs, maps, items, etc) are generally going to be fairly uninteresting, but the event scripts used (probably the closest thing Coldstone has to source code) can be quite intriguing, particularly if they're used to do things that have not previously been done with the Coldstone engine.

      Quote

      Please note that the contest has a rule (which won't change) that all entries must be compressed to under 10MB or less. From my limited time with Coldstone, I'm not even sure if it is possible to get a game playable compressed down to that size.

      That may indeed be rather tricky, but I think that by omitting music and video from a game, it should be possible.

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      'You can either be on the stage, just a performer, just going through the lines...or you can be outside it, and know how the script works, where the scenery hangs, and where the trapdoors are. Isn't that better?'
      -- T. Pratchett

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      Ah, this is the type of input I need to help me decide.

      Please note that the 10MB is for COMPRESSED file. So, that translates into something like 30MB un-compressed, depending on type of files you are compressing.

      but the event scripts used (probably the closest thing Coldstone has to source
      code) can be quite intriguing, particularly if they're used to do things that have not
      previously been done with the Coldstone engine.
      Interesting, please tell me more.

      As for using Coldstone to make a non-RPG entry, that is of course fine. I do in fact want to see Coldstone users, or people who are not traditional programmers enter the world of Mac game development, since it is good for everyone. So I am trying to find ways to accept Coldstone, without de-railing the original concept from the contest.

      One thing more I need to ask, and it concerns distribution. We require the source code/project files for all entries. That doesn't mean we need the source code to Project Builder, or Coldstone, or OpenGL, SDL etc, just the game. Is it a simple matter of packaging all the files up for Coldstone developers? (any copyrighted materials are a no no, ie sprites from another game, or tiles which are the intellectual property of Ambrosia/Beenox)

      I welcome any of you to make your voices heard in our message board "uDevGame" (http://www.idevgames.com/forum/)

      Cheers
      Carlos Camacho
      Editor-and-Theif

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      Editor-in-Chief (url="http://"http://www.idevgames.com")www.idevgames.com(/url)

      (This message has been edited by Camacho (edited 06-12-2003).)

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      Quote

      Originally posted by Camacho:
      **> but the event scripts used (probably the closest thing Coldstone has to source

      code) can be quite intriguing, particularly if they're used to do things that have not
      previously been done with the Coldstone engine.
      Interesting, please tell me more.

      One thing more I need to ask, and it concerns distribution. We require the source code/project files for all entries.
      **

      carlos

      Hi

      Once again I would recomened NOT including Coldstone in uDevGames this year or any year. I thought the reason for have the contest was to increase the Source Code availible to the programming community and with the CGE we're not use any code just scripting (even if it is interesting scripting).

      Coldstone should have it's own contest maybe with other scripting engines included but to include it with uDevGames is a strech of the your rules and would increase the amount of time you'd need to judge and handle other contest nessesities.

      Viewing the Scripting behind a Coldstone game can be very useful (sorry to disagree DP and eLLrx) thus I released a timer script and ell has release a corpicopia of scripting ideas via PDF's but i wouldnt think this would be the most important critria for contest inclusion.

      namaste

      stray

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      Coldstone_Dev Resource: (url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/straytoaster/")Coldstone_Dev Resource(/url)

      See Coldstone_Tips at: (url="http://"http://coldroom.150m.com/CGE_Stuff/CGE_Tips.html")CGE_Tips(/url)

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      the whole idea behind idev is? providing basically programming tutorials for programmers who want to make mac games so they can see how things are done and whats involved? is it working? are these people making games? has any one of these games made any ripples in the shareware or standard game market? (once again im asking because i have no clue)

      i think all of this hinges on where u think idev is going and what it needs. if it needs a shot in the arm and the rules need to be broadened then so be it. i think if people really worked at making a smooth game in coldstone and it got others on the mac to use coldstone and try it out then why not? your promoting mac gaming, gameplay development etc. the fact still remains your going to have to do a helluva job to reap any rewards in the udev contest. hell coldstone scripting development might broaden and show people they dont have to start from scratch or learn this and that. who knows it may bring in someone who before was turned off because they had to learn programming.

      (This message has been edited by DJ (edited 06-13-2003).)

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      Summer Olympics, Winter Olympics, Special Olympics, Par Olympics...

      I agree with a separate contest.
      Perhaps;
      its run by iDevGames
      hold it independently in conjunction with iDevGames

      its not a contest at all and its an annual showcase
      or just a made with CGE page, subsection to the existing ColdStone Page

      Anything, something.

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      ... I'm like Imhotep but don't flaunt it.

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      Quote

      Originally posted by Camacho:
      **Hello, it has been a very long time since I visited this forum. Last year I posted (do a search) in this forum about having Coldstone allowed for uDevGame entries. After much debate, we decided not to allow any "game-making wizards" type tools in uDevGame 2002. The community over at iDevGames, the staff and I are currently debating whether to alter the contest from "Macintosh Game Programming Contest" to "Macintosh Game Making Contest." If we go with the "making", then I think Coldstone is fine, however if we stick with "programming", then based on my time with Coldstone, then most likely it won't be allowed again this year. (FYI, the reason the contest was begun was to increase the amount of Mac-specific source code for Mac game developers to learn from.)

      Now that the contest is in its 3rd year, we are at a cross-roads so I would like to include the Coldstone community but need to wiegh many issues.**

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