Quote

Originally posted by Glenn:
**

4. You buy Coldstone, make a game, and distribute it with some sort of crippling mechanism like those discussed in this thread, or used in PoG, EVN, and so forth. This is not shareware; you should talk to Ambrosia about licensing fees.

Does that make sense to anyone?

**

This is the only one that I disagree on. A nice clarification in the FAQ's would clear this up nicely, or a response from Mr. Dunham. In the past, shareware (to me) meant basically a 'free game, with no limitations, and that the author simply asked for money if you liked the game. In more recent times, due to rampant piracy, I feel that the term shareware has evolved to mean 'crippleware', to protect the interests of the developer.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't shareware mean that you have no kind of fees paid to Ambrosia, that you send out a fully working game, but in order to finish it you need to pay $x to the creator so they give you a code allowing you to finish it? Or is that considered a commercial copy?

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Whose cruel idea was it to put an 'S' in lisp?

"""4. You buy Coldstone, make a game, and distribute it with some sort of crippling mechanism like those discussed in this thread, or used in PoG, EVN, and so forth. This is not shareware; you should talk to Ambrosia about licensing fees.
Does that make sense to anyone?"""

yup that is the exact defintion of shareware today. the whole thing of the past with, hey i made this cool game, give me money is nearly long dead.

and yes ambrosia will charge fees for either for using thier engine as in thier response to me via email.

"""Licensing fees for commercial distribution are reasonable, and can be either a flat up front fee, or a royalty, whichever works best for you. """

if your game goes out comercially aka sold the the public, they charge one way or another. thats been my understanding all along.

also i bet if you go through them to distribute and sell the game they take care of all the game/limitation psswrd stuff. going alone would be interesting and quite franklly would be crazy for me.

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According to the FAQ, Ambrosia will only charge a licensing fee if a game is released commercially. They define a commercial release as: "requiring the customer to pay before they can obtain your game/plugin".

I'm under the impression that Ambrosia is trying to encourage the type of shareware distribution that they practice. Ie, free download and playtime, but pay for the license if you want to keep the game. Shareware ultimately means (in Ambrosia's eyes) giving the user the ability to test the software and see if they like it, as opposed to an Electronics Boutique style purchase.

I plan on self-publishing, so I'm not particularly concerned about a scenario where they handle distribution/hosting/marketing. At any rate, I emailed my particular concern, and am waiting for a reply. Will let you all know what I hear.

sg

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DJ - are you aware of how to use the ( quote ) and ( /quote ) functionality on these boards? I find your use of """triple quotes""" to be distracting and difficult to read.

Anyway, back on topic:

We definitely need some official clarification from Ambrosia on what is and is not shareware as concerns the Coldstone license. Until we get it, though, I'm going to keep arguing my interpretation.

Shareware need not be totally of the "It's fully functional, but please pay me anyway!" sort - I would agree that that sort of distribution is nearly extinct. I do think that shareware must be fully functional (or very nearly so) to retain that label. Nag screens - "Please pay - this dialog will close in 30 seconds and allow you to continue using the software" - and time limits - "You have been using this software for more than 30 days. Please pay" - are, in my opinion, valid restrictions on shareware.

I don't, however, see how crippleware (software in which the full functionality is not available until paying) can be considered shareware; aside from downloading and/or shipping time, what's the real difference between crippleware and commercial software with a free demo?

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'You can either be on the stage, just a performer, just going through the lines...or you can be outside it, and know how the script works, where the scenery hangs, and where the trapdoors are. Isn't that better?'
-- T. Pratchett

"""what's the real difference between crippleware and commercial software with a free demo?"""

ive always viewed it as you are able to fully download the game instead of having to then buy it after the demo and wait for it to come or patron a local store. i just view shareware today as the poormans/classic games distribution method. the thought of giving out a full game and expecting someone to pay out of good will is quite dim specially when id like to do this full time. but who knows, ive never read anything about it, maybe it works on the mac.

(This message has been edited by DJ (edited 05-15-2003).)

Quote

Originally posted by Glenn:
**DJ - are you aware of how to use the ( quote ) and ( /quote ) functionality on these boards? I find your use of """triple quotes""" to be distracting and difficult to read.
**

I'll second that...

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Btw, now is a good time to throw in the proverbial cart before the horse.

Before everyone gets all mired down about shareware vs. crippleware, and distribution/licensing, etc... how about getting a finished product?

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Quote

Originally posted by Stark Bledfast:
**Btw, now is a good time to throw in the proverbial cart before the horse.

Before everyone gets all mired down about shareware vs. crippleware, and distribution/licensing, etc... how about getting a finished product?

**

coughUVcough

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Quote

Originally posted by dampeoples:
coughUVcough**

Oh hush. I haven't been marketing that beyond beta testers. And hey, if the beta testers hadn't broken it then it probably would have shipped by now.

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Quote

Originally posted by Stark Bledfast:
And hey, if the beta testers hadn't broken it then . . .

We wouldn't have broken it if the flaw wasn't hiding in there somewhere. Don't try to pin that on testers, that's what we get hired to do.

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"""Before everyone gets all mired down about shareware vs. crippleware, and distribution/licensing, etc... how about getting a finished product? """

its nice to know the rules before you jumps in de pool. half of the work is the game. the other half is skunk works. (planning, scheming, thinking, researching)

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Quote

Originally posted by Rubber Ducky:
We wouldn't have broken it if the flaw wasn't hiding in there somewhere.

It had always worked for me before!

hehe.

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Hello-
I think many of you are making this more complicated than it is.

If you release, create, or distribute a game on your own or with your friends, then there is no need for additional licensing no matter how you charge for it.

I'm going to leave this with commercial distribution requires an additional licensing fee, and by commercial, I mean a publishing deal of any kind. If you sign a contract with anyone, then that is commercial.

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David Dunham / tech support / Ambrosia Software, Inc.

So since I don't plan to sign a contract with anyone, I can sell my game myself, if I want to, without worrying about contacting Ambrosia. BUT, if I DO sign a distribution contract with anyone, I DO have to first contact Ambrosia for fees. Right?

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-- Debra
Danillitphil Productions