Once I thought that Coldstone was great. As a matter of fact I ordered it THE DAY that it came out. I am incredibly foolish. The following is a list of some fatal errors that have caused me to abandon my game- and Coldstone for ever (or at least for a long time.)

1. Have you noticed that Coldstone has been out for about a year, and NO real games have been published? All you hear are upcoming things over and over but nothing substantial ever gets made.
2. Ambrosia's policy with Coldstone was ship and forget about it. They sold us a half-functioning pile of computing garbage yet they refuse to make improvements and have little to no support for their product.
3. I AM willing to forget things like no team systems or anything like that but promising full functionality on top of with is just garbage. With any prospect of a major update dim I woul definitely move away from coldstone.
4. There are much better systems for developing games out there. To develop a decent game in Coldstone takes JUST AS LONG as it would to make a mediocre game but to your liking in say Cocoa or another engine.
5. There is absolutely no versatility in Coldstone. All you can do is change the graphics nad the plot- THAT'S IT. It won't even read standard Photoshop files (and what serious game developer doesn't have Photoshop?)

I know what you Coldstone loyalists are going to say: "It wasn't meant to be professional-Leave it alone-It's for newbies-etc." I was once like you poor saps, blinded by the web board moderators and the cheest rhetoric of the web page. Honestly, take a step back- there are much better things for your time and money than an extremely limited game that will never- EVER get finsished.

Please,
Either improve coldstone 200%, or get it off the market.

------------------
Visit my site: (url="http://"http://www.geocities.com/smodis13/Faceless.html")http://www.geocities...3/Faceless.html(/url)

So, your arguements are as follows:

1. Good games take time to make.
2. An update already out, another currently in production, a functioning help service (help@ambrosiaSW.com, this board, Help on the Way), don't constitute support.
3. You can't make allies easily, and so promising full functionality is stupid.
4. Coldstone is easier to make a good RPG with, but not a space shooter, for example.
5. Every aesthetic portion of the game can be lumped under 'graphics and plot,' completely ignoring every other customizable portion of the game.
6. That I (Celchu) am a close-minded idiot.

I will only address the points that deserve addressing.

3. So, you can do everything except have allies. Granted, the lack of an ally system is a serious flaw. If this is remedied, it will be able to add a lot to our (Ben's and my) game. But as it stands, our game can function well enough as it is.
4. If you want a space shooter or a RTS or even Diablo, go ahead, program it yourself and save the time. CS really can't do those.
5. The only things not customizable about CS are the physics model and statistics system. If you have something else in mind, just ask.

------------------
Consider. If passion rules our reasoning, and we are ruled by logic, we are all simply unwitting slaves to emotion, pretending to be greater than what we truly are.

I'm not going to actually dignify half of the "questions" you just "asked".
I use apostrophes because what you've just said sounds less like a question and more like one long complaint.
Although I have no objection to you complaining, I do not see the point of your post.
It seems to me that its purpose is simply, 'Coldstone is bad, no one buy it.'.
I don't think anyone minds if you don't like it, but clearly many people here who have bought it and are creating games with it do think coldstone is fun and useful.
Just go and grumble about it elsewhere, please.

P.S: many of the questions you asked are explainable, i.e people haven't made any games yet because they haven't had enough time since coldstone was released.

------------------
Poor little Johnny, of whom we'll see no more, for what he thought was H2O was H2SO4.

Man if you can't say something good then don't say anything at all. If you don't like Coldstone fine. But that doesn't mean you come here and say how cr@ppy it is. I mean come on apparently some of us here like it otherwise we wouldn't use it. So please don't come and accuse us of being stupid just because you think it can't do much, when really if we are using Coldstone then we aren't trying to make the most detailed game ever. That's just my opinion.

------------------
What stands before us
today is a meer foreshadow
of tommorow, fight hard or
die trying.

Hi. Your frustration is something that I can relate to, although I don't agree with what you actually write.

I find that I not only need to learn Coldstone, which is difficult enough, but several other graphics application programs which I'm also trying to learn. But I'm willing to do that, as well as pay for them, because I see what Coldstone CAN do rather than what it can't. And I believe that I have a rather unique spin on the usual type of role-playing game. I believe in my own abilities, and will eventually be proficient in all of these programs. But I do find it frustrating at times. This board has been a very good help.

One of the best application programs I have is Snap Pro 2. While I save images, I don't export ANYTHING in any of my graphic programs. Rather, I use Snap Pro 2 and it translates into what Coldstone can read. If there's a white glow problem that often happens when I use Bryce, I easily fix it in Photoshop. I then take a final picture with Snap Pro 2.

I hope you hang in there. If you choose not to, then I wish you the best. I'm sure there's an application program out there for you.

------------------
-- Debra
Danillitphil Productions

Coldstone is a template for a game, basically... If you want to follow that template and create the games it intends you to make, then yes, that's limited. If, however, you take your time to bully Coldstone into doing things it doesn't want to do... then you can get some fantastic effects, game styles and innovation. That's what I do, I'm a bully

What I like about Coldstone is that it helps you enough for you to be able to make a game, but it doesn't make the game for you. Well... at least i don't think so (lets just say my game looks and plays nothing like PoG).

... I have a two-player-turn-based-shoot-em-up in mind for my next project... did ambrosia n beenox plan that?! heh.

Migraine

------------------
Do you get Migraines? - (url="http://"http://www.geocities.com/ibashmyselftosleep")www.geocities.com/ibashmyselftosleep(/url)
"Kids aren't influenced by computer games at all... Pac man's a computer game, how many kids do you know who listen to repetetive music and take mind-altering pills?"

(This message has been edited by Migraine (edited 10-27-2002).)

The problem is that Beenox didn't care to continue development of coldstone after public release, which IMHO is a HUGE problem. If you're developing something—anything, can you think of everything that anyone would want off hand? Beenox threw together all of the features that they had the time and budget to make, then released it. And now, it seems that this is what we have to work with.

By the way, there are a LOT of MAJOR things that coldstone can not do.

1. You are limited to black text of a spesific size and font.
2. You are limited to a real time combat system, with very little control of NPC actions.
3. There is no way of moving the player and view for things such as leading a player into a scene, something that is an important part of virtually every RPG.
4. In many other areas (such as item pictures) you are limited as to what you can use for what. You can't make a weapon that uses a unique weapon graphic in the inventory.
5. Every time somebody wants to make a game, we have the same thing. Somebody comes into the message board and asks how to fake an event that coldstone does not support.

Every good RPG has to have something unique about it. A unique combat system, an interesting way of progressing the plot, a non-linear plot, or some special thing that the game is about. Coldstone doesn't have the tools to build this.

I'm not going to just flame you guys because coldstone sucks. I will say it sucks, but what I want is for Beenox to keep working on it, instead of trying to make a windows version so they can sell it to more people. Or if they are out of money or something, then just make the windows version and don't forget about the people that hung out in this forum for a very long time anxiously waiting for a product that would be a major dissapointment.

------------------
That's mighty white of you, Mikee. Hate to break it to you, but not everyone is so shallow and prejudiced that they fear being shot by "black people".
—Andrew Welch

Quote

Originally posted by smodis:
Once I thought that Coldstone was great. As a matter of fact I ordered it THE DAY that it came out. I am incredibly foolish.

That you are. Coldstone is provided as shareware; you try before you buy. If you bought it before testing it out to it's fullest, that's YOUR fault, not Ambrosia's or Beenox's.

Quote

Originally posted by smodis:
1) Have you noticed that Coldstone has been out for about a year, and NO real games have been published? All you hear are upcoming things over and over but nothing substantial ever gets made.

First off, Pillars of Garendall (sp?) was made.

Also, games take a long time to make. The fact it's been out for a year and there are no games could just as well be a sign that there isn't enough of a market for Coldstone as there is that it's a flawed program.

Quote

Originally posted by smodis:
2) Ambrosia's policy with Coldstone was ship and forget about it. They sold us a half-functioning pile of computing garbage yet they refuse to make improvements and have little to no support for their product.

Erm, it was my understanding that it was Beenox, not Ambrosia, who "made" Coldstone. I could be wrong, though.

Quote

Originally posted by smodis:
4) There are much better systems for developing games out there. To develop a decent game in Coldstone takes JUST AS LONG as it would to make a mediocre game but to your liking in say Cocoa or another engine.

Then go do that. What other engines are there (not being a jerk, I'm just asking because I haven't heard of any)?

Quote

Originally posted by smodis:
5) ...It won't even read standard Photoshop files (and what serious game developer doesn't have Photoshop?)

Um, what third-party application (that isn't in the same "field" as Photoshop) reads standard PSD files? I don't see any problem with you having to actually save your Photoshop files as another format for inclusion into Coldstone, because otherwise Coldstone would have to know how to handle all of Photoshop's specific formats (such as layer effects).

Quote

Originally posted by smodis:
Either improve coldstone 200%, or get it off the market.

Wow, what a great way to completely invalidate any arguement you may have by making demands. Good job.

------------------
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smodis, I thought you were a nice, smart guy. Suppose I was wrong.

I agree with everyone else; Coldstone was made for RPGS , not FPSs or fighting games or sidescrolling games. You can push it to do ally systems, and other stuff, if you care to.

Nothing can read regular photoshops applications. Get used to it.

Also, I am almost considering this spam. Ok, maybe not spam, maybe just serious idiocy. Coldstone Boards are for HELPING PEOPLE, not getting mad because of what Coldstone isn't. Just be glad of what Coldstone is. **Coldstone is an easy to use RPG maker **. It was not designed for first person shooters or anything else. If you're upset of RPG qualities left out, there are updates you know.

EVula is right; you had 30 full days to try it. You didn't use them, it's your crapping fault.

Edit:
*Forum Flame Form (FFF) 1.0

Dear:
(x) Whiner

You Are Being Flamed Because:
(x) You just plain suck
(x) You posted false information
(x) You posted something totally uninteresting
(x) I don't like your tone of voice
(x) You are not civilized enough to post in these forums

In Punishment, You Must:
(x) Jump into a bathtub while holding your monitor
(x) Surrender any and all Apple products in your possession to the poster of this form
(x) Be Pat Buchanans's love slave
(x) Go to your room with no supper
(x) Apoligize to everybody on this forum

In Closing, I'd Like to Say:
(x) Get a life
(x) Never Post again
(x) Your IQ must be 7
(x) Take your s*** somewhere else
(x) Learn to post or f*** off

============================================

The preceding Forum Flame Form was constructed for use on people not worthy of actual thought or effort in being flamed. People so STUPID that a simple copy/paste and a few check marks are all that are necessary to properly relay the flamer's contempt for the flamee. You have been identified as such a person and as such, this flame was brought to you in under 10 seconds of being read.

Have a nice day. (url="http://"http://www.foxchange.com/~matt/forumflameform/")http://www.foxchange...forumflameform/(/url)
------------------
"Perish in flames!"
Ghostbusters
Let us all scream that as we pass a windows users on the street, then point and laugh at them.
My game's (url="http://"http://www.evula.org/pfbgames/")site(/url)

(This message has been edited by PinkFluffyBunny (edited 10-27-2002).)

VVV¸hVVPV¸ VŞ? guy. Suppose I was wrong.

I agree with everyone else; Coldstone was made for RPGS , not FPSs or fighting games or sidescrolling games. You can push it to do ally systems, and other stuff, if you care to.

Nothing can read regular photoshops applications. Get used to it.

Also, I am almost considering this spam. Ok, maybe not spam, maybe just serious idiocy. Coldstone Boards are for HELPING PEOPLE, not getting mad because of what Coldstone isn't. Just be glad of what Coldstone is. **Coldstone is an easy to use RPG maker **. It was not designed for first person shooters or anything else. If you're upset of RPG qualities left out, there are updates you know.

EVula is right; you had 30 full days to try it. You didn't use them, it's your crapping fault.

(/B)(/QUOTE)

I never saw somebody posting wanting to make a FPS with coldstone. The issues are that coldstone does not have many of the common features used in RPGs. When coldstone first came out, I was glad, but had some additional wishes of the game engine.

Dee posted, and expressed that he intended some of the said features (such as multiple access levels) added. 8 months later, we have a few bug fixes. The complaining won't stop simply because you flame people for not being satisfied with a product that they waited a year for, then bought, only do be vastly disapointed with. If you are happy with coldstone the way it is, great. But we are requesting realistic and relatively minor things, as we have been for a long time. If you don't want them, then just stay out of this.

If you're so behind coldstone that you would flame people for complaining and requesting new features, then get out of this forum and get back to work on your own RPG project that you haven't given up on.

------------------
That's mighty white of you, Mikee. Hate to break it to you, but not everyone is so shallow and prejudiced that they fear being shot by "black people".
—Andrew Welch

(QUOTE)Originally posted by smodis:
**Once I thought that Coldstone was great. As a matter of fact I ordered it THE DAY that it came out. I am incredibly foolish. The following is a list of some fatal errors that have caused me to abandon my game- and Coldstone for ever (or at least for a long time.)

1. Have you noticed that Coldstone has been out for about a year, and NO real games have been published? All you hear are upcoming things over and over but nothing substantial ever gets made.**

Creating a game up to the design level of SNES quality,with 100% custom content, with a team consisting of a single person, witth filial,commercial and academic duties will take a long time.

2) Ambrosia's policy with Coldstone was ship and forget about it. They sold us a half-functioning pile of computing garbage yet they refuse to make improvements and have little to no support for their product.

Ambrosia does not own Coldstone it is the publisher meaning they bring it to the public, it is created by Beenox, who is currently used the experience of the ColdStone engine to create Goliath, onward upward.

3) I AM willing to forget things like no team systems or anything like that but promising full functionality on top of with is just garbage. With any prospect of a major update dim I woul definitely move away from coldstone.

You are a rube, the ally system is a work in progress and Beenox has never implemented it sucessfully to date, it is a wish list/ coming soon feature. The world did not begin when smodis arrived. Coldstone has always been an engine for a single player and you can easily create a quality game without a party(dead weight which you must spenfd time developing,training,spending on)

4) There are much better systems for developing games out there. To develop a decent game in Coldstone takes JUST AS LONG as it would to make a mediocre game but to your liking in say Cocoa or another engine.

Do you mean Cocoa DR3 the defunct Apple product that stopped one feature short of success(file i/o, which would prevent you from making an RPG). Beyond that it would be near impossible to do because Cocoa cannot handle multiple characters/detailed animation sequences/process commands without at least a 5 second delay.

This isn't even gauranteed to work on X, the iminent/immediate future of Mac OS. What other engines, i have been searching for a solution to game making longer than you have posessed the gift of concious thought and memory, there are no other engines of as high quality and usability that exist or have not become vaporware.

5) There is absolutely no versatility in Coldstone. All you can do is change the graphics nad the plot- THAT'S IT. It won't even read standard Photoshop files (and what serious game developer doesn't have Photoshop?)

You are ignorant, the photoshop format is far from optimized and requires insane amounts of memory to process sucessfully that is why we have file formats separate from the tool that spawned them. You must convert them in order to optimize performance go take a computer science class... QUICK. THe type of serious game developer who has no money has no Photoshop. Besides that CGE reads any format quicktime does

I know what you Coldstone loyalists are going to say: "It wasn't meant to be professional-Leave it alone-It's for newbies-etc." I was once like you poor saps, blinded by the web board moderators and the cheest rhetoric of the web page. Honestly, take a step back- there are much better things for your time and money than an extremely limited game that will never- EVER get finsished.

Yur opinion is meaningless and illogical our argument rooted in your frustration and inadaquencies, your behavior is what is known as projection or redirecting your shortcomings onto another (in this case a virtual inanimate object)

Please,
Either improve coldstone 200%, or get it off the market.

You hold no water.

If you truly are dissatisfied with coldstone and if you had any education, in regards to computers or what they are, i would suggest thaat you learn how to code and code well, this is the only place where you will enjoy true freedom and expression of your ideas and hopes, but since you have outbursts of infantile impotence you would hence suck at programming as well

------------------

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/me likes PFB's idea.

*Forum Flame Form (FFF) 1.0

Dear:
(x) Pervert
(x) Geek
(x) Wannabe

You Are Being Flamed Because:
(x) You committed crimes against pork biproducts
(x) You just plain suck
(x) You posted false information
(x) I don't like your tone of voice
(x) You are not civilized enough to post in these forums

In Punishment, You Must:
(x) STFU & GTFO
(x) Jump into a bathtub while holding your monitor
(x) Actually post something relevent
(x) Go to your room with no supper
(x) Go stand in the middle of a Highway
(x) Take a bath in bleach
(x) Drink out of a spitoon

In Closing, I'd Like to Say:
(x) Blow Me
(x) Get a life
(x) Never Post again
(x) I pity your dog
(x) Go to hell
(x) Your IQ must be 7
(x) Take your s*** somewhere else
(x) STFU * GTFO
(x) Learn to post or f*** off
(x) Go jump into some industrial equipment
(x) All of the above

============================================

The preceding Forum Flame Form was constructed for use on people not worthy of actual thought or effort in being flamed. People so STUPID that a simple copy/paste and a few check marks are all that are necessary to properly relay the flamer's contempt for the flamee. You have been identified as such a person and as such, this flame was brought to you in under 10 seconds of being read.

Have a nice day. (url="http://"http://www.foxchange.com/~matt/forumflameform/")http://www.foxchange...forumflameform/(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by Madman:
**I never saw somebody posting wanting to make a FPS with coldstone. The issues are that coldstone does not have many of the common features used in RPGs. When coldstone first came out, I was glad, but had some additional wishes of the game engine.

Dee posted, and expressed that he intended some of the said features (such as multiple access levels) added. 8 months later, we have a few bug fixes. The complaining won't stop simply because you flame people for not being satisfied with a product that they waited a year for, then bought, only do be vastly disapointed with. If you are happy with coldstone the way it is, great. But we are requesting realistic and relatively minor things, as we have been for a long time. If you don't want them, then just stay out of this.

If you're so behind coldstone that you would flame people for complaining and requesting new features, then get out of this forum and get back to work on your own RPG project that you haven't given up on.

**

Dude, look at the title of the topic. Wasn't that a little extreme? He wasn't just complaining and requesting, he was whining. He was saying false information. He also posted in a board that is for helping people. Not saying the product sucks. Can't you see that?

------------------
"Perish in flames!"
Ghostbusters
Let us all scream that as we pass a windows users on the street, then point and laugh at them.
My game's (url="http://"http://www.evula.org/pfbgames/")site(/url)

Guys, (most notably PinkFluffyBunny and BanditKeith) lay off the flames. This is not civilized nor respectable. Cursing (Bunny, Keith) and suggesting violation of household pets (Keith) is never acceptable in these forums. Stop flaming; hold an intelligent conversation. Everyone will be happier for it.

------------------
Consider. If passion rules our reasoning, and we are ruled by logic, we are all simply unwitting slaves to emotion, pretending to be greater than what we truly are.

yeah. sorry. I'll save the flames for a more useful situation.

Erm, yeah really sorry. Temper got out of control....again.....

------------------
"Perish in flames!"
Ghostbusters
Let us all scream that as we pass a windows users on the street, then point and laugh at them.
My game's (url="http://"http://www.evula.org/pfbgames/")site(/url)

Sorry for this whole post. I deleted. Please except my apology. However, watch what you say smodis. You DID offend a lot of people. Sorry again.

(This message has been edited by CI-Ia0s (edited 10-27-2002).)

Quote

PinkFluffyBunny
*Forum Flame Form (FFF) 1.0

Thought-out flame form 1.0
Dear:
(X)Obsessed fanboy
( )Pirate
(X)Hypocrite

You are being flamed because:
(X)I don’t like you
(X)Your rampant abuse of a flame form
(X)You checked every damn square
( )You asked for a serial number
( )You use AOL
(X)You’re obsessed with something that sucks
( )You asked a question that was answered a million times already

In punishment, you must:
( )Buy the program
(X)Proclaim to the world that you use AOL
( )Give windows a try
( )Give MacOS a try
(X)Find a better program worship
( )Find a better operating system to worship
( )Find a better ISP to worship
( )Pay for something better than dialup
(X)Make a better form
(X)Edit your last post and put more thought into it
(X)Call Bill Clinton and inform him that you suck

In Closing, I'd Like to Say:
(X)Your last post sucked
( )Yar! You are a pirate! Arrr!!!
( )TURN OFF CAPS-LOCK
(X)Calm the **** down already
(X)Show me what you can do with coldstone
(X)Take your cult somewhere else

=====================================
This form was constructed by Madman for one single post. If you would like to use it for future flaming, then **** off and type your own •••• flames you lazy @@@ &&&&er.;

(This message has been edited by Madman (edited 10-27-2002).)

Alright, this topic has gotten way out of hand. No more flame forms, indeed, no more flaming at all. If you're going to post any more, make it a VALID post, one that actually refers to the subject matter at hand, and try not to insult each other.

I'm not going to "lock" this topic, as I'm not as familiar with this board as I am with others, but I will be karma-slapping people who feel the need to flame anyone else after this post. I'll leave it to this board's moderators to karma-slap the people above as they see fit.

Keep it civil, people. Please.

------------------
(url="http://"http://www.evula.com/")EVula,(/url) your friendly (url="http://"http://www.evula.com/")self-promoting(/url) EV & EVO Boards/Addon/Newswire/Chronicles moderator
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PB already apologized. Jeez! Leave her alone.

And saying:

Quote

Calm the **** down already

dosen't sound very calm. So please, everybody, calm down. Lets stop this Flame war now, k?

------------------
CI-I@()s

this topic should be locked,
it is irrelevant and quite frankly no one should waste further efforts on Smodis and should ignore his frustrated rantings of doom

------------------

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