Ambrosia Garden Archive
    • Game plot, game idea, game help, etcetcetc..


      I've been working on an idea for a game for a few months.. I was wondering if some people here might help me refine it and/or help me work out how to go about creating it. I'm downloading Coldstone as I write (although AOL is being exceedingly slow.. it's taken 40 minutes to download 7300k!), and I've talked about it a little with a friend who has a registered version and writes a little shareware.

      Anyway... while I suppose I can't expect to get very far here since I haven't been able to actually start working with the program yet, I was hoping someone might give me a few pointers. I'll hold off on explaining the plot until someone tells me whether this is the right board for that 😛

      Okay, here goes:

      1. Strategies for making maps before actually putting them into the game- any ideas? I've had several years of experience with playing Dungeons and Dragons as a DM, but I've found programming to be quite different..

      2. What size of game is a good attempt for a first game? I wanted to make a big, beautiful, everyone-who-plays-the-demo-wants-to-register kind of game (who doesn't?:-P) but I'm a little scared that I'll start, get a little way through, get frustrated, and quit. There's also the fact that I'm still in high school, taking several AP classes and contending with 5 hours of homework per night and running clubs 4 nights a week after school, and thus have almost no time except on the weekends. 😛

      3. Plot problems.. again, will hold off on these for a while..

      I'd appreciate any help I can get.. thanks a lot!!

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    • Welcome to the board!

      1. Making maps in Coldstone is done graphicall, so you can see the results instatnly. I myself like to plan on graph paper before doing things graphically - because the maps are easy to create, but can take time to alter if there are a lot of alterations (this, of course, depends on how complex your map is.)

      2. If you're only working on the weekends then I'd say start with a small to medium game (though it depends on your patience and how long you want to be developing it).

      3. I'm sure no one would subject to your submitting your ideas for help on your story, as long as it's a good one. 😉

      Good luck!

      ------------------
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    • Quote

      Originally posted by Galadriel:
      **
      2. What size of game is a good attempt for a first game?
      **

      I had the very same problem. The story and the world that my friend and I created are cyclopean, we would have surely given up pretty quickly if we had tackled the whole thing right away.

      So we decided to make two games out of it. The first game we release will be a rather short and linear "prelude" to the real thing (it was easier for us to make that decision because there is a pretty clear division between the very beginning of the game and the rest) Then if there is public interest in seeing the whole thing, and if we don't decide that we hate making games 😄 we'll have sufficient motivation to finish the second.

      Also, one thing we are doing is giving ourselves a very generous timeline. I think it's good to have loose dates set as to when you should be so far in making your game - it'll keep you moving. But be reasonable, think of how much time/week or /month you can realistically devote to working on the game then set a timeline based on that. That way you don't rush things, but you still have given yourself deadlines to keep you motivated.

      Just my thoughts.

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      (url="http://"http://jankostar.net/sanko")my Page of Garbage(/url)

    • Thanks for the replies... I guess I may cut down on a few of the quests I was planning, since the actual area of the game wasn't -too- large, and I had m... 140?... as a target number! 😛

      I finally finished downloading Coldstone (it took all night.. I hate AOL!!) and took a look at it.. I was a bit startled. Will the graphics and interface always be like that? I was under the impression that they were -completely- flexible- that you would be creating something that was entirely your own creation, rather than determined in part (a rather large part!) by the makers of the tool. ?? :eek:

      Back to what was mentioned in my earlier post... here is the plot I was considering. Again, any comments are welcome (why else would I be positng it on a webboard??).. I've talked about it a little with a friend who makes games, but that's about all.. Anyway,

      Plot (as it'll be presented in the opening of the game.. explanation follows.):

      You were born into an age of confusion, in a simple place never before exposed to controversy.

      An archipelago stretched into the ocean not too far from the mainland.. an outpost of a small and unobtrusive coutnry, no war had troubled it, no turmoil and turnover of government.

      Until events came about with seemingly no cause, and chaos briefly struck.

      For a full year, the dark-haired, brown-eyed, tan-skinned people of the islands noticed change.. Change in their children, in their grandchildren, in all the generation that was born that year. An unexplainable deviation from the norm.. Nearly all of the thousands upon thousands born that year, on those untroubled islands, had blue eyes.. And they dreamt.

      No people in this land had cause to dream.. sleep was untroubled and simple, like life. "Dreams are a cause of madness, and madness is a cause of dreams.." ran a line from a nursery rhyme. But now blue-eyed children dreamt. Blue-eyed children, in a place where all looked alike and darkened, and slept quietly in the deep nights.

      Tremors swept through the towns. Was it a blessing from the gods? A curse? A disease, a deformity, a warning, an act of magery, of witchcraft... speculation ran wild. Accusations began. The tremors became earthquakes of suspicions. Doors were locked against strangers. Governors and mayors kept rule by the strangth of their troops.

      And into this you were born.

      With blue eyes.

      And something else... Something that only those whose children were afflicted had yet noticed.

      Sometimes.. besides your dreams..

      You were struck by visions. Words, phrases, would trigger landslides of images before your eyes, leaving you blank and unhearing for moments.. Images of madness, of underwater cities, inhabited by translucent-skinned people with blue eyes and pale hair... Images that, if discovered by those who believed that the blue eyes and dreams in themselves were diseases and deserved death, might tear apart the society more than so far.

      A place untested by hardship was struck by a mystery...

      And a generation of children lay at the heart of it.

      Who could foresee what might happen when they were grown to adulthood? What atrocities might be committed by them?

      Or against them?

      You grew, as all children do, to adulthood. And found yourself without an easy home, uncomfortable among those you had loved, who knew that they need no longer shelter you in a world that hated them for it. You were struck into the world, not journeying out of your own choice..

      And as the first children of that year left home, the atrocities began.

      A dangerous place for those with blue eyes.

      ----

      Warning! Plot Spoilers ahead! 😉

      Since (as you should have gathered by my -lengthy- exposition) you play a blue-eyed person in this archipelago, not everyone in the game will be friendly. In fact, a lot will be downright hostile (there's going to be one town where they try to burn you at the stake!). Eventually, you'll find people who seem to be intentionally triggering your "visions".. this will get explained and all the visions will get connected.. it's complicated, and I'm getting tired of typing so I'll put the rest of the explanation in some later reply. (Note.. my replies tend to be just a tad few-and-far-between, on account of the previously mentioned lack of time.)

      ----

      I had a question on interface, too, that I forgot to add (I already read the multiple-character thing, so my question on that is no longer necessary :-P).. how customizable is the array of buttons and icons that controls your game? What aboput the opening screen? Or what happens when your characters gain levels? NEED HELP!!!

      -G

      Thanks again! 🙂

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      (This message has been edited by Galadriel (edited 09-16-2002).)

    • Quote

      Originally posted by Galadriel:
      **here is the plot I was considering.
      **

      Sounds pretty darn good. 😄

      Quote

      Originally posted by Galadriel:
      **
      Will the graphics and interface always be like that?
      **

      The ingame interface is yours to dream up - the Coldstone interface is how it is...which did you mean? (To change the in game interface chose Game Options from the Project menu - and check out the Layouts tab)

      Quote

      Originally posted by Galadriel:
      **
      how customizable is the array of buttons and icons that controls your game? What aboput the opening screen? Or what happens when your characters gain levels? NEED HELP!!!
      **

      On the Map screen you will have 10 Map Buttons which you can link to any event you like...is that what you are asking?

      I suggest skimming through the manual...it will explain the level system and how the graphics work.

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      (url="http://"http://jankostar.net/sanko")my Page of Garbage(/url)

    • Quote

      Originally posted by sanko:
      **On the Map screen you will have 10 Map Buttons which you can link to any event you like...is that what you are asking?

      I suggest skimming through the manual...it will explain the level system and how the graphics work.

      **

      I was thinking more in terms of the interface again.. the interface ingame, not Coldstone. You caught me, still have to read manual.. 😛 Thanks for the compliment on the plot... I'm still too lazy to finish explaining it... 😉

      Thanks for the help... I'm a hopeless newbie!! (with far too little time on her hands..)

      -G

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    • Here's a hint:
      Photoshop.

      You can customize almost everything here. Make your own interface, make sprites (characters) and so on. Just follow the explanations in the manual if you need further help with animations and what not.

      If you need humans, simply go to the topic "I need Humans!!" and there will be links there, follow the instructions people give. If you are (which I believe a lot of us are) one of those people that don't like manuals, atleast browse the webboards for help. But please, read the manual. It helped me greatly.

      Hope I helped,
      Bunny

      ------------------
      You never really know how much you care about something until you almost or do lose it. I almost lost a carrot this morning.
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    • Great plot!! i think you should have a story of how the player is rejected by his familly and forced to live on the streets at a young age, or the familly is rejected for harboring a "Freak" and is either bannished from their home town, or murdered just after they manage to sneak they're child out of the town.

      I can't wait to hear more about your game!

      Crayons.... Yummmmm

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    • NOTE:I state suggestions like I know everything because it saves time, not because I know everything.

      Your story is very good. If you do not use CS as an outlet, please use something.

      What we did:
      Make a stupid little game first. Our game was about killing the monster in the basement with a subplot worked in about stealing cheese to trade for rat poop. Make sure you include multiple locations (ours had 3), no matter how small, and an NPC that says several different things deepending on what you've accomplished so far. This little game will teach you alot, and it will give you an idea of how complex things will get as you proceed.

      Come to the boards for anything. There are some ridiculously intelligent and talented people floating about.

      myshkyn

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      "I'll give the fans just what they want, and nothing else at all."

    • I am the "friend who has a registered version and writes a little shareware." Yes, you CAN change the interface; just RTFM! (I hope you know what that means...)

      Good plot, etc. IM me. I'm usually online between 6 and 8. (Not every night, and not necessarily for all 2 hours.)

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    • Thanks again for the info- and the compliments :redface: I didn't think my plot was that good!

      I realize this is probably in the manual (ah, but you people are so informative!), but anyway- do you have to use events and variables and classes to make skills? Skills being things that you know how to do, like tracking or knowing how to use certain weapons or making potions or whatever? Or is this like turn-based combat and multi-character parties, where you have to exercise your brain to figure it out? 😉

      I figured out the layout stuff.. thanks!

      Okay, weird thing happens when I'm doing tutorials (I'm currently working on Picquilarius's off the addons page)- every now and then when I save and launch the game, the changes don't appear. Any thoughts on why???

      Okay, I'm finally going to reveal the background of my plot! (As in, I am not feeling lazy. :-P) Dirodna has already seen it, so he can sleep for a little while. I think this overlaps what I wrotein the game backstory a little towards the end.. oh well. My writing style is also a little crazier..

      Underwater kingdom is inhabited by near-humans who share collective memory, ruled relatively well, blah blah blah, by first born in royal family. Younger brother is jeaulous, evil person. Overthrows government through spying, assassination, etc, and in fit of vindictiveness and revenge gets royal mage to remove all memories of AquaMarine (the underwater country) and transport former-king to surface as a changeling. Then, just out of petty revenge and grudge, forces all the first-born children in AquaMarine to be gathered together, no matter the age or status. They're supposed to have the same thing done to them, but at the final word of the enchantment, the mage's strength gives out, he dies, and the victims are left by the half-done spell with subconscious memories of AquaMarine (rather than none), triggered occasionally by certain words, things seen, etc (the only specific trigger I've thought about yet is an entomologist character I want to have in the game, who is studying Mayfly-like creatures (Mayflies are insects that live for one day, if you didn't know) and says "How swift and sweet must be the sunset on their final day..", which triggers memories of the journey upwards, and the sight of the last sunset from underwater, before the journey is taken by night, more on this character and idea later later). However, dreams or visions on the surface are seen as signs of madness, and so when the former Aquarians are changelinged, they are ostracized and hated for their unknownness. (I make up lots of new words, sorry..) Thousands and thousands of people are sent up and switched.. this sudden epidemic of "crazy" people (since all were switched to newborn infants) all in the almost-exact same age becomes a political and religious controversy for the humans, who think they're just dealing with a sign or disease or evil thing or something simple like that. 😛 So people, whenever they find out that you (the character) are a Dreamer will react in different ways- some may attack, some may tell authorities (which may imprison you or even, in one case, try to burn you alive!), some may venerate you as an offspring of a god. What fun. And it's almost inevitable that they will not notice, except in certain special circumstances, because your eyes will temporarily revert to their Aquarian blue instead of human brown, and you won't respoind to anything for a little while while you see the vision. (See below on the eyes..) Then, just to make things even -more- complicated, a group of Aquarians who lost children or parents or friends has organized a resistance to this crime and has secretly sent people up to the human world (the Aquarians are unknown by the humans, except in ancient and almost invariably unbelieved myths) to try to find Dreamers and, when enough are found and enough by them remembered to understand some of what has happened, to help them locate the notes and works of the mage and restore the memories of all the exiled Aquarians that can be gathered. (I was also thinking about having this have another effect: the changelinged children come back, as do the Aquarians' real ages, and.. the humans are brown-haired, brown-eyed, and tannish. The Aquarians are white-haired, clear-blue eyed, and have nearly translucent skin. So now you have children who suddenly realize that they've been kept in stasis by a group of underwater creatures who look just like you, for about 20 years, and "MONSTERS OVERRUNNING TOWNS"! (so the humans think) Here come the attempted mass slaughters and ostracism!) THEN, to make things even MORE complicated, you can try to find the exiled king, who has no memories to identify him, just his age (same as yours) (and maybe (see above idea about consequences of remembrance) blue eyes?).

      ---

      More later!

      ------------------

    • Sounds like you have a pretty strong backstory for your game. No "save the princess" stuff there.

      The situation the islanders are in could potentially make for some great characterization and depth, which is something a appreciate in a game...mostly because I have yet to see a really good set of strong characters that have real depth in a computer game. (but then, maybe I'm not looking at the right games)

      And underwater civilizations rock. (there's one in one of my future games as well)

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      (url="http://"http://jankostar.net/sanko")my Page of Garbage(/url)

    • Originally posted by Galadriel:
      "Okay, weird thing happens when I'm doing tutorials (I'm currently working on Picquilarius's off the addons page)- every now and then when I save and launch the game, the changes don't appear. Any thoughts on why??"

      I've noticed this. I don't know why or exactly when it does it (because it doesn't seem to do it with every change) but you can do one of two things to force CS to recognized a change has been made: 1:Quit and restart. OR 2: Go to File>Change Game and select the game you are currently working on. That seems to reload everything and accept changes. Kind of like a "refresh", only, without the network.

      myshkyn

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      "I'll give the fans just what they want, and nothing else at all."

      (This message has been edited by myshkyn (edited 09-19-2002).)

    • Oh yeah-
      Make sure to click the run game button (the arrow pointing to the right). I believe that will save changes, and if you have enough memory open, you will be able to play it right there :).

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    • Quote

      Originally posted by Galadriel:
      **
      Okay, weird thing happens when I'm doing tutorials (I'm currently working on Picquilarius's off the addons page)- every now and then when I save and launch the game, the changes don't appear. Any thoughts on why???
      **

      You can also try "Build and Launch" in the Project menu. Sometimes when I am switching between projects if I just Launch instead Build and Launch I get crazy wierdness. Also, be sure that you are saving the files you are working on before you launch.

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      (url="http://"http://jankostar.net/sanko")my Page of Garbage(/url)

    • Ah, thanks for the explanations.. I had been saving and then launching directly from the program, I guess I'll go back and try it with build-and-launch. It was starting to make me worry- none of the tutorials would work! 😛 Any ideas on the skill system??

      With as little experience as I have, I have absolutely no idea whether this would work.. but anyway.. what I was thinking about doing with skills was to attach each skill to a gloabal variable, and each of those to a change global event that would increase or decrease the skill global as the player trained in the skill or somehow got it increased. Then a conditional would check the value of the skill each time it was applicable to whatever event was going on.. the question is, how do I allow the player to alter their skills? (If you've never played a computer game with skills or Dungeons and Dragons- basically how it works is that each time you level, you get some skill points, which can be spent to increase proficiency in tasks such as potion making, lock picking, detecting traps, etc, etc. If the player has no choice about how to spend their skill points, the system is virtually useless.) Is there any way I could make an event come up that would allow the player to alter their statistics? The only way I can think of doing it is by dialog boxes or somesuch linked to an atribute wizard. Feedback and help please!

      Myshkyn- about making a mini-game for practice- would this purpose be served by doing the tutorials? I want to get started on my real game! 😛

      (And yes, I know it seems like I have never-ending questions.. it's true! I do!)

      -G

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    • Simple really.

      Experience points. You can make it so they can't use a spell until a certain level, and I believe you can do that with items too. You level up when you get enough experience points. I don't believe you need all those global things. 😄

      Hope I helped,
      Bunny

      ------------------
      "Perish in flames!"
      Ghostbusters
      Let us all scream that as we pass a windows users on the street, then point and laugh at them.
      My game's (url="http://"http://glued2seatp.150m.com/")site(/url)

    • The first thing that jumped into my head would be to use the game buttons on the map interface (you've got 10 of them). You could easily have one button assigned to each skill and with a few conditional actions and global changes, you could allow the player to add points to skills of their choice if and when they have skill points to spend.
      The only problem is, these buttons would /always/ be on the screen (on the map interface), can't think of a way to get them to pop up when you need them... should work... 😄

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      "Kids aren't influenced by computer games at all... Pac man's a computer game, how many kids do you know who listen to repetetive music and take mind-altering pills?"

    • Quote

      Originally posted by Galadriel:
      Is there any way I could make an event come up that would allow the player to alter their statistics?

      Mr. Galadriel,

      If you have not looked at Beenox's game Pillars of Garendall, or more specifically the plug-in they made for it called "Trinity," you should. They did exactly what you are asking about with their Swordsman class.

      In a nut shell, they defined their Swordsman class with the class editor, and under the level up menu they created an event where every 3 levels a dialog box popped up and asked which stat the player wants to have raised. You choose the stat, it is raised, and the game continues. After 3 more levels you get the same dialog box.

      The only problem with this is that you can only offer 3 stats to choose from with this method, unless you want a series of dialog boxes(with 2 choices and a third choice to be to have other chioces which would send you to a new dialog box with 2 different choices and a 3rd chioce for more choices, etc).

      2 work-around to this problem that I can come up with quickly are as follows:

      1. When the player levels up/meets your criteria, display a dialog that lists their current stats for each statistic that you want them to be able to choose to modify. After this dialog create an "Ask Entry" object that asks the player which stat he wishes to modify. So the player can then just type in "Strength" or "Dex" or whatever. You will want a conditional list set up so that if the player asks for an incorrect stat, or misspells it or something, that they will be asked to re-enter their choice.

      2. I think this is possible, but I haven't tried it. I believe you can create a main location picture that you can list the players stats(ie, use stamps or something to dynamically display what their current stats are). Then make radial buttons or something next to each stat and link an event to each button, so when the player clicks on "Strength" or some other stat the picture window closes and their stat is raised.

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    • Quote

      Originally posted by Stark Bledfast:
      **2) I think this is possible, but I haven't tried it. I believe you can create a main location picture that you can list the players stats(ie, use stamps or something to dynamically display what their current stats are). Then make radial buttons or something next to each stat and link an event to each button, so when the player clicks on "Strength" or some other stat the picture window closes and their stat is raised.

      **

      Yup. We've done this (with multiple points) and it works like a charm. The only drawback is you can't show the current values of the stats as the player is choosing which to raise. Aside from that, it works beautifully. It takes several event links and locations (especially using multiple points), but if anyone wants to see how we did it, I can email you the files with a short list of instructions (not that you can't figure it out yourself, but it might save you some time).

      myshkyn
      isthaq@earthlink.net

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      "I'll give the fans just what they want, and nothing else at all."