A great reference source for potential Coldstone users is 'Game Developer Magazine' and its' associated website: (url="http://"http://www.gdmag.com")www.gdmag.com(/url) The sister site, gamasutra.com (available at the same URL) is full of very useful stuff for anyone contemplating, or in the process of, game creation.

The December issue of the Magazine has a very interesting article entitled 'The 4 Myths of Game Design', four beliefs that should be removed from our thinking about games.

I list them here, but the article elaborates with very good logic:

1. We Are Our Own Audience-- as both game players and designers we know what makes a successful game. We know what everyone else wants in a game.
2. Realism Is Always a Primary Design Goal.
3. You Can Build a Hit By Imitating Another Hit.
4. A Great Idea Will Make You a Fortune.

Skip

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...it wasn't me...

hm....

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idevgames.com is a good resource. They've got lotsa stuff.

Ulll.....

After a long vacation and Macworld and some intensive reading, I am alive. And healthy. And you all thought you woke up from that bad dream.

Um. I'd like to add on a list here that would be some guidelines to follow for making a game:

1. Plot is key. People's attention spans are only so long and some people (like me) will drop the game unless I have a very good reason not to, within the first area/level etc.

2. Care is important. Don't make a game that isn't your best work, neatness and professionalism are important. You don't design a game with all the pictures you drew in 3rd grade and your mom put on the refrigerator.

3. Have a plan. Decide what your limits are.

4. Always have an original idea.

-cybergnu

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"The Gnuey Boy"

that said, for a non-beta tester, what kind of work could i do to start creating a game for coldstone without knowing much info? i'm not trying to wheedle out info that should be kept quiet. but for people who already have a team assembled and want to get crackin, things like terrain mapping, tiling, etc.

what kind of graphics work do y'all think can be done without having coldstone in hand?

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Quote

Originally posted by druber:
**that said, for a non-beta tester, what kind of work could i do to start creating a game for coldstone without knowing much info? i'm not trying to wheedle out info that should be kept quiet. but for people who already have a team assembled and want to get crackin, things like terrain mapping, tiling, etc.

what kind of graphics work do y'all think can be done without having coldstone in hand?

**

I think I just might start a "What can I do until Coldstone is released?" FAQ. Additions are welcome.

You should have your plot FINISHED. When a film crew is producing a movie, they don't have to deal with the scriptwriter coming back and saying, "hey, we have to do these three scenes over again, sorry guys," because it's a tremendous waste of time and money. For the independant game designer, it is simply a waste of your most valuable resource: time.

I personally found that doing character design and plotwriting at the same time worked well. Others may not.

Once you've got your plot done, make out a list of things that need to be designed in detail: characters, places, spells, monsters, bad guys, etc. This way you can know, for example, that you have exactly twenty-five areas to design in detail, and you need to detail out twelve solid characters, good and bad. You don't need these details necessarily, just a quantity, as if you were filling out a purchase order, "OK, I need 403 different monsters, the power of which lies on a general bell-curve."

Again, I found it best to figure out my areas and monster quantities in detail. You can leave room for the addition of a monster or two, and minor tweaking, but having a list of everything you need to do is tremendously helpful, believe me.

Decide if you want music for your game. If so, are you going to write it, hire it out to a musician, or find some stuff you like and ask if you're going to use it.

You're also going to need sound effects, unless you want to limit yourself to whatever ships with Coldstone.

If you are doing your own artwork you can begin the monumental task of actually producing it. At the very least, you should have your art direction down pat. What is art direction? Style, animating principles, how to do cutscenes, etc. Make up your mind whether your characters are going to be limited in detail and animation (like Exile/Avernum, Realmz, Final Fantasy I-VI, etc), or well-animated (Fallout, later FF games). Animating takes a lot of time and effort (again, trust me, I know).

I'll see what info can be released about sprite formatting, but for now, you should have as much artwork as possible (land, objects, people, monsters) in as far of a stage as you can take it without actually making the sprite. For me, this would be have things modelled, textured, posed, and animated in my 3D program. Since I don't know how you're making the artwork, I can't offer any additional advice.

And that's all for now, I've got to get back to working on my game.

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People who claim the sky is falling obviously aren't aware the earth is falling, too.

yeah, an 'in the meantime' faq would be great. i follow you right through the post. i don't really understand what level of 3d modelling coldstone will support. Is this constructing full 3d landscapes, with 2d tiles (trees, special grass, etc) to decorate the basic scape? art direction needs to start somewhere, and it's no good creating strong ideas in the wrong format. also, has the coldstone licensing agreement been posted somewhere? no use waiting for the release if we end up deciding not to use it.

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Originally posted by druber:
i don't really understand what level of 3d modelling coldstone will support. Is this constructing full 3d landscapes, with 2d tiles (trees, special grass, etc) to decorate the basic scape?

Coldstone uses layered 2D sprites (stillframe or animation) for it's graphics engine. The sprites for my game are being rendered out of a 3D program I use. Basically, you want to think about your landscapes in terms of "This goes above the character, this is on the same level as the character, and this is below the character," even though you have more control than that.

Note that I would consider graphics, sound effects, and music production work. This means I think you should already have a plan for what you want to do with them. Heck, I'd even consider the sfx and music post -production work in that they should be done after your graphics and animations (it's much easier to sync up a sfx to an anim. than vice versa...).

Since my graphics are animation-heavy, I think it is much easier to spend the time to model and animate inside of a 3D engine than any other method.

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People who claim the sky is falling obviously aren't aware the earth is falling, too.

Excellent attention to detail and planning in your pre-production stage Sanehatter. Though it sounds like you've got everything very well plotted out,if you find yourself in need of another artist (conceptual to 3D animated models and everything between) drop me a line, I'd be happy to work with someone who has planned things out so well.

BTW: To the rest of you in "How do I start a dev team land" showing the level of maturity and thoroughness that Sanehatter has shown is an excellent way of attracting all sorts of creative people. People who are serious about getting something done will be immediatly attracted to those who can manage with precision. That's right, if you want competent people working with you, you've got to show a high level of competancy in your pre-production work and dev plans.

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Originally posted by Et'he:
**Excellent attention to detail and planning in your pre-production stage Sanehatter. Though it sounds like you've got everything very well plotted out,if you find yourself in need of another artist (conceptual to 3D animated models and everything between) drop me a line, I'd be happy to work with someone who has planned things out so well.

BTW: To the rest of you in "How do I start a dev team land" showing the level of maturity and thoroughness that Sanehatter has shown is an excellent way of attracting all sorts of creative people. People who are serious about getting something done will be immediatly attracted to those who can manage with precision. That's right, if you want competent people working with you, you've got to show a high level of competancy in your pre-production work and dev plans.**

I have absolutely no disagreement with what Sanehatter and Et'he have said...

But I must interject a word of warning. Sanehatter has a 'not-quite-complete' development team. One of the key players is missing and, when included down the road could throw the entire project back to a very early stage.

The missing team member is the 'programmer'. In this case a released, feature-complete Coldstone and a very good working knowledge of it. What it is capable of, how well (read fast) its product (your game) can handle your features, what features of your game that are supported poorly if at all.

Yes, do as Sanehatter does, but realize that you are going to have to learn a great deal about Coldstone once you have it in hand before you can actually produce a game.

It would behoove you to also be planning a game with very simple graphics and no animation that has an relatively deep plot with interesting storyline and quite a bit of 'action' for the player. Practice dialog, battle scenes, shops, sound effects, camping/resting, magic effects/items, types of weapons/armor--- All on a very elementary level. So that when you actually get Coldstone, you have something small to 'play' with and to discover its'/your limitations on 'coding' a game.

Then start on your Magnum Opus with all the bells and whistles. Get the 'programmer' involved before going too far!

Skip

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...it wasn't me...

having a baby rpg makes good sense to familiarize yourself with coldstone. someone's certainly got to know coldstone inside and out. storywriting is a long-term project. i've never gotten to work for ambrosia or any established software company, so i don't know how much can be effectively worked on at once. but the game'll never get done anyway if you just twiddle your thumbs. and i don't think that that's what you're advising. but there's no limiting your story because you aren't sure the engine can handle it. i'm the story guy. we'll work on bringing it to an engine later on.

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Quote

The missing team member is the 'programmer'. In this case a released, feature-complete Coldstone and a very good working knowledge of it. What it is capable of, how well (read fast) its product (your game) can handle your features, what features of your game that are supported poorly if at all.

Very true. FWIW, I'm not shy of programming concepts; I actually have a bit of experience with Basic, Pascal and Perl. Of course, the question is, will I be able to implement what I want to do in Coldstone? But more of that will come in a post to the beta list tomorrow.

I know what you mean about doing a small, simple project first. In fact, A Silent Fall was my 'small, easily-implementable' game until I started pushing it into a more interesting idea than the one I was saving for later (A Gothic-Steampunk Comedy, believe it or not, still on the backburner). Maybe I need another small project; if nothing else I learned in art school to never try your special idea on a first project in a new medium.

Hm... methinks the idea I had earlier, "Quest for the Sparkly Hoojit," (the cliche-RPG to top anything Squaresoft has ever put out) might just make a good quickie first game after all... maybe ten hours of play time; very formulaic plot, maps, etc; it could use the shipping artwork (or create some SNES-style graphics); better yet, cheesy chip tune music ; and best yet, lots of Monty Python references.

Anyone want to form a team to get a superbasic CGE game done super quickly, so we can all get a production cycle under out belts? Email or AIM me, we'll talk.

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People who claim the sky is falling obviously aren't aware the earth is falling, too.

(This message has been edited by sanehatter (edited 01-20-2001).)