The fact that Crow T. Robot wants JacaByte on this team makes me less inclined to approve of it. But, I haven't made up my mind yet.

Edit:

@jacabyte, on 12 August 2012 - 10:04 AM, said in GTW 40:

I kind of like this proposal, except I think Crow is a traitor. But I also think he's the only traitor on this proposal.

Huh. I'll be putting in my vote later than usual this time around.

The fact that JacaByte is resistant to the idea makes it all seem even more bizarre. Does he just not want to be the one caught as a guaranteed sleeper agent? It makes sense he'd rather have the other sleeper agent on the team if it fails instead of himself, since people generally trust JacaByte more than say, darth_vader. That way when the mission fails, JacaByte would have a chance of being on the final team where only one fail is needed. That convinces me. I'll be rejecting this one. There's no reason why JacaByte wouldn't want to be on this mission if he was innocent.

Well sucks to be you, because I've decided to approve this proposal. Took an extra 20 minutes. Why? Becuase there's no way there can be more than 1 traitor on this mission. I was trying to figure out if Crow and retep998 could both be traitors, but this is impossible. Since I'm innocent we're guaranteed to win with this proposal.

Edit: in before Tech has a hissy fit about me being on this proposal.

This post has been edited by JacaByte : 12 August 2012 - 10:31 AM

Too late, you already outed yourself. You said it yourself, there was no reason to hesitate if you were innocent because there'd only be one bad guy. And yet you did. Why? Because it's not enough for you to fail this mission, you need to fail the next one too, and failing this mission makes you 100% a sleeper agent to everyone's knowledge.

So tell me why I didn't fail the second mission. Because if I am a traitor there was absolutely no reason for me to not fail the second mission. I could have easily framed you, you still wouldn't know who was innocent. I wouldn't leave the last missions up to chance.

I was trying to figure out why, if Crow really is a traitor, did he put himself on a proposal that did not include any other traitors? That gave me pause. But noooooo, you have to read all kinds of s*** into that post becaue you really like to over analyze everything. And that's going to lose you this game. Again, don't come crying to me.

@jacabyte, on 12 August 2012 - 10:38 AM, said in GTW 40:

So tell me why I didn't fail the second mission. Because if I am a traitor there was absolutely no reason for me to not fail the second mission. I could have easily framed you, you still wouldn't know who was innocent. I wouldn't leave the last missions up to chance.

I explained that way back when it happened. You were surprised when I voted against the proposal, and knew nobody would believe your frame job. It would backfire on you.

And then I explained why it wouldn't matter how you voted. And who said I had to frame you?

I'm just as innocent now as I was for the second and third missions.

This post has been edited by JacaByte : 12 August 2012 - 10:55 AM

I don't know, you're the one bringing up framing now as some kind of defense. And back then, you made a pretty big deal out of my vote at the time.

@mrxak, on 12 August 2012 - 12:43 AM, said in GTW 40:

I'll state the obvious. Either croc, Crow T. Robot, and Techerakh are the bad guys, or three who voted against this one are. Or a bad guy has some serious cojones and split, hoping to avoid such an obvious grouping (which would leave one good guy on the approve team), when the outcome of the next match turned out badly.

Anyway, certainly very interesting the way this came down, and who ended up on each side.

@jacabyte, on 12 August 2012 - 01:01 AM, said in GTW 40:

I want to wait and see what Crow does before making any immediate decisions about this round of voting, though I suspect at least one of the people who rejected the proposal is innocent, and at least one of the people who approved it is a traitor. Note that all three approve votes were from people who were currently on the proposal. If all three were traitors, we shouldn't have been able to get two fail votes on the third mission unless one of the innocents failed the mission as well.

Jaca's right that mrxak's first possibility is impossible, since we know that two of the traitors were on the previous round's team, and neither croc nor Crow were on that team.

However, I disagree with Jaca's suggestion that at least one of the people who approved the last proposal is a traitor. But more on why Jaca is suspicious later…

@mrxak, on 12 August 2012 - 01:07 AM, said in GTW 40:

Which is why somebody has some serious cojones.

Or, they predicted there'd only be four approval votes, which is not enough, and made the rational choice. We'll have to look at vote declarations and figure things out.

croc, Crow, and I all stated that we were for the proposal. mrxak is the only one who explicitly stated he was against it, though Jaca's arguments against it strongly suggested that he was as well. No one else said anything, but retep could have been expected to vote for the team, as per his standard policy. That he did not is noteworthy. SIB and darth gave no inclination whatsoever.

From this, I think it's extremely unlikely that a traitor decided there would be at most four approval votes.

The most likely scenario is that all three traitors voted against the last proposal.

@retep998, on 12 August 2012 - 01:28 AM, said in GTW 40:

So, just to remind everyone, our goal is to select a team comprising everyone who was NOT on the last mission and a single person who was. The last mission had 4 people, of which we know two must be traitors. Therefore the single person we need to choose from that mission has a 50% chance of being innocent. Now, suppose there were actually three traitors on the last mission, and one selected not to vote fail, then we're basically guaranteed to win, however this is quite unlikely. So basically, we need to pick the most innocent out of these four people:
darth_vader
JacaByte
Techerakh
SoItBegins

Feel free to offer proposals for how we should select the most innocent member. I'd prefer something akin to the hunger games.

Hey, thanks for finally showing up. This is exactly what I posted last round, and if you (and the other civ) had voted approve , we would have won the game already. But I'm glad to see you're finally on board.

@crow-t--robot, on 12 August 2012 - 06:27 AM, said in GTW 40:

Okay, here is the proposal I would like to submit.

Crow T. Robot
mrxak
JacaByte
croc
retep998

Swapped out Techerakh for JacaByte. Let see what you folks think.

I think this is a terrible idea. Of Jaca, SIB, and darth, of whom two are definitely traitors, Jaca is easily the most suspicious. If we put forward this team, and it fails, we will learn that Jaca is definitely a traitor, but we still won't know which of the Most Trusted Players (again, that's Crow, mrxak, croc, and retep) is guilty.

@mrxak, on 12 August 2012 - 10:30 AM, said in GTW 40:

Too late, you already outed yourself. You said it yourself, there was no reason to hesitate if you were innocent because there'd only be one bad guy. And yet you did. Why? Because it's not enough for you to fail this mission, you need to fail the next one too, and failing this mission makes you 100% a sleeper agent to everyone's knowledge.

mrxak is right; Jaca's initial hesitance over this proposal is totally damning. If he were innocent, he would know that this proposal would be a surefire win for the civs. That he had to consider at all means that other factors are at play (namely, he's a traitor).

Civs, don't support this proposal.

The big question to me right now, is which of the Most Trusted Players is the third traitor. I seriously doubt it's croc or Crow, after what happened last round. That leaves only mrxak and retep. mrxak is pushing hard against Jaca, who did just basically out himself. That leaves retep, who, again voted fail against a mission he was on because it was going to lose the game for the traitors.

Ladies and gentlemen, your traitors: Jaca, retep, (SIB/darth)

edit: inserting a quote of the mrxak post that I agree with

This post has been edited by Techerakh : 12 August 2012 - 11:30 AM

I love how Tech substituted himself with me when he lists this game's traitors.

If it makes you guys feel better, when I'm up next to propose names (hopefully this round, and not the last round), I won't include either of you :p.

@jacabyte, on 12 August 2012 - 12:08 PM, said in GTW 40:

I love how Tech substituted himself with me when he lists this game's traitors.

Right, because outing my teammates would make a whole lot of sense at this point in the game where the traitors still need TWO people on the next mission…

This is getting comical. My advice for you is just to stop posting altogether and hope for the best. It appears your comrade retep is just waking up to the fact that he might need to engage in substantive argumentation now if you guys are going to have a chance, so maybe he can take over for you in the PR department.

@mrxak, on 12 August 2012 - 12:11 PM, said in GTW 40:

If it makes you guys feel better, when I'm up next to propose names (hopefully this round, and not the last round), I won't include either of you :p.

You honestly still suspect me? Really? Search your feelings mrxak

Oh also, in the retep-is-guilty department, in addition to him voting against the last proposal without any justification (which is 100% damning itself, honestly), I think now is a good time to revisit retep's proposal back in round two, in which he simply added one person to the round 1 team (in order to get perfect intel on whether or not darth was also a traitor).

@techerakh, on 12 August 2012 - 01:12 PM, said in GTW 40:

You honestly still suspect me? Really? Search your feelings mrxak

I'm not going to repeat a rejected proposal.

@techerakh, on 12 August 2012 - 11:25 AM, said in GTW 40:

The big question to me right now, is which of the Most Trusted Players is the third traitor. I seriously doubt it's croc or Crow, after what happened last round. That leaves only mrxak and retep. mrxak is pushing hard against Jaca, who did just basically out himself. That leaves retep, who, again voted fail against a mission he was on because it was going to lose the game for the traitors.

Ladies and gentlemen, your traitors: Jaca, retep, (SIB/darth)

I voted fail because I was unsure over whether or not YOU were a civ. So I voted reject so we can get more arguing and voting information to determine who is innocent and who isn't, as we just did with JacaByte. Isn't getting more information what GTW is all about? But if you want to believe I'm a traitor, fine by me. I rather enjoy watching you guys argue and point fingers at each other.

EDIT: Damnit, by the time I finished this reply 5 posts already ninja'd me.

This post has been edited by retep998 : 12 August 2012 - 01:29 PM

At this point I'm certain that I'll never play another GTW game with Tech or mrxak. This is insane, a true sin to all global thermonuclear warfare, when it's the late game and we still don't know who's innocent. Screw Tech, screw darth_vader, screw retep998, but most importantly screw everybody else. If I have a chance to end this game with deadlock I will take it, I just want it all to be over so I can shake my innocent booty in front of everybody's face.

This post has been edited by JacaByte : 12 August 2012 - 01:38 PM

"Gentlemen, please! You can't fight in here! This is the War Room!"

This post has been edited by SoItBegins : 12 August 2012 - 02:08 PM

@mrxak, on 12 August 2012 - 01:22 PM, said in GTW 40:

I'm not going to repeat a rejected proposal.

Understandable, though of course the circumstances in which the original proposal was made are different from the current circumstances. I bet that same proposal would get more votes this time around.

I am interested to see what you're gonna put forth.

@jacabyte, on 12 August 2012 - 01:36 PM, said in GTW 40:

At this point I'm certain that I'll never play another GTW game with Tech or mrxak. This is insane, a true sin to all global thermonuclear warfare, when it's the late game and we still don't know who's innocent.

A tremendous loss to be sure.

To be honest I think ths civs are in a pretty good position. It's only round 4 and we've already won two missions. We know that two of the four people from the last mission were traitors (one of which was you, it seems). We can assume that all three traitors were among those who rejected the last proposal. That really whittles things down.
You want to know who's innocent? I'm innocent. Croc's innocent. Crow's innocent. mrxak is probably innocent. Is that enough info for you?

No, because you're definitely not innocent.

And this is exactly why I continue to reject proposals.

@jacabyte, on 12 August 2012 - 01:36 PM, said in GTW 40:

At this point I'm certain that I'll never play another GTW game with Tech or mrxak. This is insane, a true sin to all global thermonuclear warfare, when it's the late game and we still don't know who's innocent. Screw Tech, screw darth_vader, screw retep998, but most importantly screw everybody else. If I have a chance to end this game with deadlock I will take it, I just want it all to be over so I can shake my innocent booty in front of everybody's face.

Woah, dude. It's just a game, man. Try not to take it so personally. People accuse me of all sorts of stuff. When I'm innocent, when I'm not, when I'm the intelligence agent, whatever. It really doesn't matter.