@eugene-chin, on Mar 15 2008, 03:23 PM, said in GTW Round 20:

I have to concur with this.

As I said before, what got to me was the attempt at deception re: Bait-and-switch Hypochondriac vote.

You chose to be deceptive about that. You chose to lash at everyone who voted against you (lemonyscapegoat included).

How can you be so surprised to find that your own actions are what cast the rest of your argument into doubt?

The moment lemony outed me as an IA, I knew the terrorists would be on my ass until I was dead and stayed dead. From there, I decided to do everything possible AT ALL that could possibly make someone vote for Hypo, because he was the only person I had a real reason to kill. So, I went crazy, doing all I could to possibly trick someone into seeing Hypo as suspicious. I'm done. If I get resurrected, I'll be nightkilled again tomorrow. So, as I said, I'm putting Hypo's and Eugene Chin's names out there as terrorists. I can't save myself, but I could effectively use the good old "suicide bomb" that I believe someone got to use (or didn't end up being able to use, but did have as an ability) earlier in this game, but the public opinion version of it-- make everyone hate me and kill me, but I'm dying anyway, if they will bring down Hypo with me, all for the better.
Did it work? No. But if through that I made people go for Hypo, I'm happy. I was dying anyway, as people saw the nightkill came before the lynching, and would have happened either way.

@jrsh92, on Mar 15 2008, 08:26 PM, said in GTW Round 20:

<snip>

Stop talking. You're dead.

@rickton, on Mar 15 2008, 08:48 PM, said in GTW Round 20:

Stop talking. You're dead.

That's just another example of the man trying to keep me down.

@jrsh92, on Mar 16 2008, 02:47 AM, said in GTW Round 20:

That's just another example of the man trying to keep me down.

Although xander never made it an explicit rule in Game 1, he did ask that players not to try and influence the vote once they were dead.

It is one of the central concepts to games inheriting from the structure of Mafia/Werewolf.

And it has, mostly, been honored for twenty games here. We only ask that you do the same.

This post has been edited by Eugene Chin : 16 March 2008 - 12:47 AM

Rickton, did 1Eevee1 drop or did you just forget to add his name to the players vote list at the end of last round?

@manta, on Mar 16 2008, 03:15 AM, said in GTW Round 20:

Rickton, did 1Eevee1 drop or did you just forget to add his name to the players vote list at the end of last round?

Whoa. That's weird. I must have just missed his name when I selected the list of players. Huh.
No, he's still here.

Suddenly, jrsh92 walks back into the room. His head's a bit lumpy but otherwise he looks fine.

For the record, the remaining players are:

1Eevee1
darth_vader
egroeg
Eugene chin
GutlessWonder
Hypochondriac
jrsh92
kickme
Lemonyscapegoat
Manta
SoItBegins

He's a duck! I mean, a zombie!

puts Manta between him and jrsh

Wtf happened to my post? (and jrsh92s for that matter)

You may have noticed that the person who was Night-Killed at the end of last round was the very same person who was voted off. Some of you may be asking "Why did the Dictators kill the same person they were Lynching?"

We didn't.

As me and my compatriots were preparing to turn in for the night, we wrote a set of instructions for the Host, considering that we were unlikely to be present at the end of the round.

Since both the Intelligence Agent and the Necromancer had been outed to us in a single round, and since the I.A. was in a dead-heat with one of our own in the vote, we were not sure who was going to be lynched last night and we were not able to stay up all night to watch the turnout of the vote. So, we left instructions with the host to cover the possibility of the vote shifting. We labeled jrsh92 as the target in the event that he was not lynched, and we labeled egroeg as the target in the event that jrsh92 was lynched.

When we woke up and saw the results of the round (namely, that jrsh92 was both night-killed and lynched), we attempted to ask the Host why our instructions weren't followed, and it was then that we were informed that he was not allowing us to put our own conditions on our night kills. We would not have objected to this had we been informed of this at the start of the game. But, it is not something we were informed of at the start of the game and it is not in keeping with our understanding of what hosts have done in previous GTW games. So, we had no reason to believe that we couldn't place conditions on our night-kills.

At the same time that the Host informed us that we could not place our own conditions on night-kills, we were further informed of another rule he had in place, but did not inform us about, that if the night-kill target was lynched, then the person with the second-most votes is night-killed instead. While we are grateful that the Host did not exercise the rule this round on account of the fact that one of our compatriots had the second-highest vote total (and would normally have resulted in night-killing a terrorist), we do not appreciate the fact that we were not informed of this rule at the beginning of the game, as we feel that this is an even greater departure from what previous GTW hosts have done and has a significant impact on which strategies we employ.

We further contend that the Host did not make any attempts to inform us that these were issues. We received no messages prior to the end of the round to the effect of "Hey guys, I just got your PMs. You're not allowed to place your own conditions on your night-kills, so I will need you to make up your minds one way or the other as soon as possible. Please try to get back to me." Nor did we receive any messages to the effect of "Letting you place conditions on your night-kills seems overpowered to me. I'll need to confer with other GTW hosts on this and get back to you. In the meantime, please try to make up your minds one way or the other." We, in fact, received no messages at all that this might be an issue. If the Host had attempted to contact us as soon as possible before the end of the round and had to act on his own anyway because he couldn't get a response from us in time, then we might have been more willing to continue. As it stands, however, we were not contacted.

In conclusion, after conferring amongst ourselves, we, the dictators in this game of GTW, have decided that we no longer wish to continue participating in this game as we feel that the rules of the game have been changed on us unreasonably and without warning. We also realize that this action spoils the game for the other players, for which we deeply apologize, but we feel that it is necessary. We also apologize for springing this decision on Rickton without warning, but we do not feel that we can continue under the present conditions.

We thank the other players for their participation in this game of GTW. With the exception of the dispute as described above, we found this game to be a fun game and hope that it was also fun for everyone else thus far. We hope to see you all again in Game 21.

...

_Manta, Hypochondriac and Eugene Chin walk to the head of the chamber, pull explosives and guns from their jackets, and scream: "AAERU!!"

And then they explode._

@eugene-chin, on Mar 16 2008, 05:47 PM, said in GTW Round 20:

At the same time that the Host informed us that we could not place our own conditions on night-kills, we were further informed of another rule he had in place, but did not inform us about, that if the night-kill target was lynched, then the person with the second-most votes is night-killed instead.

Actually this isn't true at all. I said I considered it as an option but decided not to.

Also, way to be completely immature about this, guys. "The game isn't the way we like it so we're quitting and ruining it for everyone else." Reminds me of 3 year olds on the playground. Jeez.

This post has been edited by Rickton : 16 March 2008 - 05:13 PM

That was... interesting...

Um. I'll get ready for the next game, which I am hosting.

Well damn, Sorry Jrsh.

Eugene Chin said:

<long rant>

You know, I suspect Eugene put the other two up to this. In Game 17, right after Buffalo The Kid (the other terrorist) was killed, I had to talk Eugene out of quitting right there and then on the spot. This may have been why he was so dissatisfied by the ending (although the fact that he tried to change his move right after I had started typing the final round's story post, but got refused because he was too late, leading to everybody's death, may have also had something to do with it).

This post has been edited by SoItBegins : 16 March 2008 - 06:34 PM

I was watching from the side lines the entire game, and even though I made a few comments here and there and actually received some information from the terrorists, (I didn't sell this to anybody because nobody would let me participate in GTW ever again for sure.) I couldn't figure out what the heck was going on. I didn't know what roles there were, I did't know what the parties involved were aiming for, I didn't know much of anything.

All in all, that was a poor game.

The roles were:

1Eevee1 - Terrorist Radio - Knew who the terrorists were going to kill
darth_vader - Mafia Connections - Could remove a player from the game for ONE round ONCE
egroeg - Life Serum - Could bring someone back to life ONCE for a random number of turns
Eugene chin - TERRORIST
GutlessWonder - Virus - Could be used TWICE to block a player's vote
Hypochondriac - TERRORIST
jrsh92 - IA
kickme - Missile Redirection System - Could be used to redirect the terrorists' kill (actually he used this but then a bunch of crap went on with the terrorists so I forgot about it)
Lemonyscapegoat - Global Defense System - Stop the terrorist or lynching missiles ONCE regardless of target (if I were to do it again I wouldn't give them the ability to stop lynching because then they'll just use it to save themselves like lemony did)
Mackilroy - Wants Shlimazel dead (later changed to Life Serum when Shlimazel dropped out)
Manta - TERRORIST
mrxak - Suicide Bomber - Could kill someone, but also died at the same time
nfreader - Hacker - Could change a player's vote TWICE
prophile - Cake Delivery Service - Could stop a lynching ONCE
RJC ultra - Force Field - Could defend himself for a round, but only ONCE
Shlizamel - Life Serum - Same as egroeg's
SoItBegins - Thief - Could steal a player's role

Unfortunately, it seems that placing limits on the number of times a power can be used discourages players from actually using them, since almost nobody used their special powers during the game.
Of course, considering that a lot of the players didn't do anything at all most of the time maybe that's why.

This post has been edited by Rickton : 16 March 2008 - 07:00 PM

Yeah... Some interesting roles you have there, I might consider using some of them in my game.

I was thinking over which player's role I wanted to steal, then the terrorists blew themselves up.

@egroeg, on Mar 16 2008, 04:35 PM, said in GTW Round 20:

Wtf happened to my post? (and jrsh92s for that matter)

That's my fault, I accidentally deleted them, not realizing that he'd survived. My apologies.

@rickton, on Mar 15 2008, 05:44 PM, said in GTW Round 20:

Note to anyone planning on running GTW:
Don't put night kills before lynchings, the terrorists will bitch at you.

@rickton, on Mar 16 2008, 06:10 PM, said in GTW Round 20:

Actually this isn't true at all. I said I considered it as an option but decided not to.

Also, way to be completely immature about this, guys. "The game isn't the way we like it so we're quitting and ruining it for everyone else." Reminds me of 3 year olds on the playground. Jeez.

My brother was talking to me about this while trying to decide whether or not to quit the game. As the situation was presented to me, the issue wasn't "The game isn't the way we like it", but rather "The rules of the game were not explained to us in advance and seemed to change without warning."

Future GTW hosts will probably be perfectly fine with putting night kills before lynchings, as long as they explain in their rules at the start of the game that this is what they're doing. In fact, a rules summary for the new game posted at the start of the game might be a good idea, as the rules seem to change from host to host, and even from game to game run by the same host.

"At the end of each round of voting, the following happens:
1-The Intelligence Agent investigates someone and learns their role
2-The Terrorists night kill someone
3-Whoever was voted to be lynched gets lynched
4-Anybody who died during these steps is permitted one last post for other players to read before the start of the next round of voting.
There are secret special roles that might come into play before, after, and/or in-between any of these steps."

The strategies used under this ruleset will probably be different from the strategies used under a different ruleset like:

"At the end of each round of voting, the following happens:
1-Whoever was voted to be lynched gets lynched
2-The Terrorists night kill someone
3-If the Intelligence Agent is not dead during this step, then the Intelligence Agent investigates someone and learns their role
4-Anybody who died during these steps is permitted one last post for other players to read before the start of the next round of voting.
There are secret special roles that might come into play before, after, and/or in-between any of these steps. It is intentional that how these roles will affect gameplay will only be discovered during the course of play."

I did advise my brother that walking away from a game like this might be seen as immature and should only be done for a very good reason, but I also agreed with him that having the rules seemingly changed on him qualifies as a very good reason.