whoa, darwinian's dethroned.

@veritus-dartarion, on Jan 10 2007, 04:36 AM, said in Congratulations to Edwards, AGDenton, simX, and Edwards again!:

whoa, darwinian's dethroned.

No kidding. I would be really curious to know how it was done.

xander

As I do - I'll have Matt Slot check the time Just In Case™

Before I do my best non-100% time, I've trained by doing a 100% time run first because they won't be kept after I do a non-100% run. Better than last time (i.e. in the beta), but still no better than in darwinian's screenshot. Guess I need to train a little more for the real thing. Testing the last beta will be ideal for that.

And now, this is a minimalistic run (except, of course, for taking the "free" missile pack, so that I can complete the game), which takes less time than a 100% run, but more than a real best time run as the missing stuff makes you waste time (sometimes much time) in certain parts.

@zacha-pedro, on Jan 10 2007, 07:26 PM, said in Congratulations to Edwards, AGDenton, simX, and Edwards again!:

And now, this is a minimalistic run (except, of course, for taking the "free" missile pack, so that I can complete the game), which takes less time than a 100% run, but more than a real best time run as the missing stuff makes you waste time (sometimes much time) in certain parts.

82%!? What did you skip? The 300% sheild upgrad and a missle pack? How many missles do you end the game with?

xander

Exactly. Let me tell you, the End Boss battle is insanely hard when you only have 100% shields and can't waste missiles, I think I completed with 0 missile, and in general I've had to wait for a streak of luck (in the battle where I finally did it, I got three 25% life pickups, if I'm not mistaken; I died 66 times and I'm willing to bet half of them were in the final boss battle).
EDIT: heh heh, you just confirmed me (though I already had a pretty good idea from the description of stuff that would add time in 100%) what you take for your best time runs... Thanks for the info

This post has been edited by Zacha Pedro : 10 January 2007 - 02:47 PM

@zacha-pedro, on Jan 10 2007, 07:44 PM, said in Congratulations to Edwards, AGDenton, simX, and Edwards again!:

Exactly. Let me tell you, the End Boss battle is insanely hard when you only have 100% shields and can't waste missiles, I think I completed with 0 missile, and in general I've had to wait for a streak of luck (in the battle where I finally did it, I got three 25% life pickups, if I'm not mistaken; I died 66 times and I'm willing to bet half of them were in the final boss battle).
EDIT: heh heh, you just confirmed me (though I already had a pretty good idea from the description of stuff that would add time in 100%) what you take for your best time runs... Thanks for the info

Hey, I'm willing to share

In fact, here is my route:

Big Mama Flicker
King Crab
through the Wasteland to the Factory
The Core
through the Wasteland to the Volcano
Skull Tank
through the Wasteland to the RaceTrack
Super Pellets (skip the 200% sheild upgrade)
through the Wasteland and the Factory to the Ice Caves
Ice Beast (don't pick up the missles yet)
to the Factory
Guardian mini-boss, collect star 1
Forest Race (star 2)
Heart of the Forest
from the Forest to the Ice Caves
300% Sheilds
hit the three snowflakes (grab the misslses)
get star 3
get star 4
to the Factory
hit the blue switch
Ship III
hit the blue switch
to the Forest
get star 5
to the Wasteland
get star 6 (I also generally pick up 5 missles here, as the time spent getting them is easily compensated for during the final battle)
to the Volcano
get star 7
get star 8
to the small section of the Wasteland only accessible from the Factory
get star 9
to the Factory
get star 10
to the EndZone
defeat the final boss(es)

That's all there is to it

Oh, and I have defeated the final boss with only 10 missles and 100% sheilds, but it didn't really seem worth it, to me, as it took longer.

xander

This post has been edited by darwinian : 10 January 2007 - 03:39 PM

I detect an impossibility with your route, but otherwise it's similar to mine.

@zacha-pedro, on Jan 10 2007, 09:10 PM, said in Congratulations to Edwards, AGDenton, simX, and Edwards again!:

I detect an impossibility with your route, but otherwise it's similar to mine.

Where is that?

xander

@zacha-pedro, on Jan 10 2007, 02:10 PM, said in Congratulations to Edwards, AGDenton, simX, and Edwards again!:

I detect an impossibility with your route, but otherwise it's similar to mine.

If it's the one I think you're thinking of, that switch is just within culling distance when you reach the force field. You simply need to know where and what to shoot, and have the sound turned up.

Edwards

Then what's the point of having a force field? I say it's circumventing it. I'm sure Lars didn't intend us to do this without the third ship, though I could be wrong.

@zacha-pedro, on Jan 10 2007, 10:38 PM, said in Congratulations to Edwards, AGDenton, simX, and Edwards again!:

Then what's the point of having a force field? I say it's circumventing it. I'm sure Lars didn't intend us to do this without the third ship, though I could be wrong.

It is not a direct attack on the switch, but bouncing super pellets off of the wall. It may not be the intended method, but it is basically the same trick as in Factory. Also, unlike the "shoot through the wall" trick that takes advantage of culling, this is a 100% reliable method, and works without effort once the bugs in that little room are cleared. As Edwards said, it is all about knowing the correct angle to shoot, and how to bounce the pellets properly.

http://yozh.org/sket...tbounceshot.bmp

xander

EDIT: To answer the question of why there is a force field -- I had just assumed that it was an either/or . Either you need the third upgrade, or you need super pellets. If that is not an appropriate approach, feel free to delete my scores -- I can do almost as well without that trick

EDIT (again): Here... this is without using the trick of questionable legitimacy
http://yozh.org/sket...good_enough.png

This post has been edited by darwinian : 10 January 2007 - 10:54 PM

@darwinian, on Jan 10 2007, 11:55 PM, said in Congratulations to Edwards, AGDenton, simX, and Edwards again!:

It is not a direct attack on the switch, but bouncing super pellets off of the wall. It may not be the intended method, but it is basically the same trick as in Factory. Also, unlike the "shoot through the wall" trick that takes advantage of culling, this is a 100% reliable method, and works without effort once the bugs in that little room are cleared. As Edwards said, it is all about knowing the correct angle to shoot, and how to bounce the pellets properly.

http://yozh.org/sket...tbounceshot.bmp

xander

EDIT: To answer the question of why there is a force field -- I had just assumed that it was an either/or . Either you need the third upgrade, or you need super pellets. If that is not an appropriate approach, feel free to delete my scores -- I can do almost as well without that trick

EDIT (again): Here... this is without using the trick of questionable legitimacy
http://yozh.org/sket...good_enough.png

That's exactly what I was talking about (aww, why did you have to explain everything? It's funnier when you're cryptic! :p). No need to trash your scores, I don't think it saves you that much time, and anyway I could be wrong, especially as the "Tree" wall you're bouncing one has just the right orientation, guess I was upset that I did not find it myself. (by the way, I don't think bmp is the best suited format, your image weights nearly 1MB)

In somewhat related news, it seems nothing is wrong with Meses' time. So please all hail your new king... who got dethroned from the overall best time in the meantime, xander got it back. Hmm... I don't know if I'll end up beating this time after all, I don't have that much time to waste on this (yes, paradoxically making a best time run can be time consuming). I'll have a few tries first before I officially give up, though.

@zacha-pedro, on Jan 11 2007, 05:26 PM, said in Congratulations to Edwards, AGDenton, simX, and Edwards again!:

In somewhat related news, it seems nothing is wrong with Meses' time.

Wow! Now I really want to know how it was done. That 100% seems impossible...

xander

EDIT: How's this for a minimalist run? The death count should probably be quite a bit higher. I have been working on that game since yesterday, and quit several times when things got frustrating.

This post has been edited by darwinian : 11 January 2007 - 06:40 PM

Just ignore my last 99% time, this was beta testing.

Drat. You posted while I was uploading the image file. Ah, well.

xander

Hrm... It looks as though Meses has done it again. I would be really curious to know how he got those times with 100%... I've finished the game and gone back to the beginning to time routes through it with the third ship. Assuming that no more than 25 seconds are spent on each boss, I just don't see how it is possible to finish that quickly. I don't mean to give the appearance of sour grapes, but I would really like Meses to pop in and explain exactly what he is doing...

xander

This post has been edited by darwinian : 25 January 2007 - 01:43 PM

@darwinian, on Jan 25 2007, 06:42 PM, said in Congratulations to Edwards, AGDenton, simX, and Edwards again!:

Hrm... It looks as though Meses has done it again. I would be really curious to know how he got those times with 100%... I've finished the game and gone back to the beginning to time routes through it with the third ship. Assuming that no more than 25 seconds are spent on each boss, I just don't see how it is possible to finish that quickly. I don't mean to give the appearance of sour grapes, but I would really like Meses to pop in and explain exactly what he is doing...

xander

Not sure quite what you mean by 25 seconds on each boss - i.e. do you mean time to that boss from the previous + fight time or just fight time?

I have found I can kill most of the bosses except for the forest boss and king crab in well under 10 seconds on a good run...

@crono, on Jan 25 2007, 09:03 PM, said in Congratulations to Edwards, AGDenton, simX, and Edwards again!:

Not sure quite what you mean by 25 seconds on each boss - i.e. do you mean time to that boss from the previous + fight time or just fight time?

I have found I can kill most of the bosses except for the forest boss and king crab in well under 10 seconds on a good run...

Indeed. Basically, what I meant was about 20-25 seconds on the Crab Boss, 10 seconds on the Dragonfly, about 15 on the Core, a minute or a minute and a half on the last boss, &c. On average, it ought to come out to about 25 seconds, though that average is heavily weighted by the last boss. By the way, the Forest boss really shouldn't take more than 10 seconds -- about 3 seconds to blow each of the sheild generators, and not more than 4 to take out the boss. It was worded badly. Better to have said: Assuming that a minimum amount of time is spent on each boss, I just don't see how the game can be finished that quickly.

And, again, if the time really is legitimate, congratulations. I would still really like to know how it was done.

xander

I've not heard that there was anything wrong with that time either. I have noticed this for some time, but damnit! I wonder how I'll ever be able to beat this. However, that doesn't mean I'm not trying. In this last attempt of mine, I decided that the super shield was useless at the point I was getting it, so I did without it, taking two extra missile packs instead (to go through the End Boss battle more quickly, at least as far as it's possible to speed up this battle, in the drawing enemies part the pace is dictated by the Pen). After testing it, I found it to be a better strategy. Of course, YMMV.