Wow, it's been a long time since I made a post in this topic. It's pretty funny to see how I use to act, I'm surprised anyone put up with me back then.

Anyway, I noticed the topic and thought I'd step in to say hi and wish you well again. I found your observation about the number of ships probably using the hypergates and the estimated value of that trading to be pretty interesting, and there's some pretty cool ship descriptions in here. I have a bit of trouble with weapon and ship descriptions some times, I must confess.

Looking forward to your next update!

QUOTE (Shlimazel @ May 22 2010, 10:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, it's been a long time since I made a post in this topic. It's pretty funny to see how I use to act, I'm surprised anyone put up with me back then.

Anyway, I noticed the topic and thought I'd step in to say hi and wish you well again. I found your observation about the number of ships probably using the hypergates and the estimated value of that trading to be pretty interesting, and there's some pretty cool ship descriptions in here. I have a bit of trouble with weapon and ship descriptions some times, I must confess.

Looking forward to your next update!

Welcome back, Shlimazel.

I based my observation mainly on populations. Current estimates of the UGF's population (and only the UGF, this doesn't count the five other major star nations, independent stellars, or minor independent factions) put it at upwards of 983 trillion sentients from over five million different species. With all those people, the number of interstellar ships using the hypergate system is bound to be extremely high, so I just threw out a number I thought reasonable, and combined it with the fact that the UGHGA isn't a normal government agency, but rather a publicly-traded corporation with the Galactic government as the majority stockholder. (Not in the way General Motors is at the moment, but the way the US government owns Amtrak.) Put together, the two facts provide enough funding to keep hypergate fees low.

Here's a tip: as far as ship descs go, I find it helpful to combine what the ship is capable of (its stats) with things like historical facts (the Depression forced a lot of companies, including Sigma Shipyards and Kurt Channing Enterprises, out of business), the ship's name and builder (the Shinobi fighter, Samurai gunship, and Shogun cruiser are all built by New Japan Shipyards), and often what the ship looks like (the Kangaroo light freighter, which I haven't shown yet, is meant to look vaguely similar to a kangaroo).

This post has been edited by StarSword : 24 May 2010 - 09:51 AM

I don't have any images to show off today, but instead I'll start listing some pirate ships.

In EVN:UGF, any ship that has "Pirate" in its classification originated at Black Rose Station, a battlestation cum shipyard in deep space owned and operated by the Rosenberg crime syndicate. The Rosenbergs officially call themselves "La Famiglia Rosenberg," and are a Mafia that seems to have its hands in half the tills and illegal enterprises in the northwest Milky Way. They also operate a piracy fleet.

Originally they were a minor mafia family on Earth, the Salvatore Famiglia, but then one generation of the Salvatore family produced all girls. The eldest daughter married an offworld-born Salvatore enforcer named Xavier Rosenberg, who became the padron's protege due to both his intellect and his marksmanship (family legend has it that he never missed no matter what gun he used, and that he once killed a UPL organized crime cop from a kilometer off with a bent scope). After vastly improving the famiglia's fortunes as a lieutenant, Rosenberg became head of the famiglia in 5 GSD and quickly took the organization into space. Their first good shipwright was a student of Owen Greylock and Olaf Greyshoulders, and married one of Rosenberg's sons.

The Rosenbergs are considered enemies by everyone except the other pirate factions, and ships of companies whose designs they've altered will go out of their way to attack them.

• Pirate Dynacross: The ThrensinCorp F-40 Dynacross isn't half bad as an interceptor; in fact at one point it was the staple craft of the United Galactic Fighter Corps. Since then it has been displaced by faster and better armed fighters, but the Dynacross is still pretty popular in the defense fleets and security forces of Galactic member worlds. Certain pirate factions have also been known to use it, and the Rosenberg family of pirate shipwrights has put their own sinister spin on this classic.
• Pirate Starhawk: Republic Naval Systems designed and built this masterpiece of a fighter craft using components from several different companies. The HF-3 Starhawk is built to fly aggressively and can take on craft several times its size with an impressive payload for a ship of its class. It shows up in criminal hands even more often than the Dynacross, and the Rosenberg shipwrights, tinkerers all, recently produced this modified version.
• Pirate Carrack: New Netherlands Spaceworks' classic Carrack-class Light Freighter is one of the most popular models around. Modification is made easy by its modular construction, and its range enables it to carry large cargoes quickly and safely to all corners of the galaxy. Of course, historically carracks were a type of warship, and the Rosenbergs remembered this when they took the basic design and put their own deadly spin on it. Sadly, much of the NNS Carrack's original trim lines have been destroyed (some would say "perverted") in this model.
• Pirate Chevron: The CR-28 Chevron-class Cruiser is the crown jewel of the Merlin Starcraft civilian starship line. Originally designed by Kurt Channing Enterprises, the production line was bought up by MSC after Channing filed for Chapter 11 during the Depression. What is less well known is that Channing was secretly a scion of the Rosenberg family of pirate shipbuilders. As many have since guessed, Channing hated his Chevron's new builders so he stole the plans and took them to his parents on Black Rose Station. The so-called "Pirate Chevron" has been a menace ever since.
• Pirate Shogun: Named for the samurai overlords of feudal Japan, the Shogun-class cruiser by New Japan Shipyards is one of the most dangerous ships on the market. It carries two bays' worth of Shinobi-class fighters and a formidable arsenal of turbolasers and ion cannons that make it among the greatest starships ever built. For obvious reasons it is popular with criminal captains. Due to its price, the "Rosenberg Special" is a rarity, but this is largely believed to be a good thing.

Will pirate versions of ships look any different from their standard counterparts, besides possibly darker colors? I mean certain sections of the ship have been removed to stick in other stuff, or compartments added to the outside for whatever reason. Anything like that?

QUOTE (DarthKev @ May 24 2010, 03:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Will pirate versions of ships look any different from their standard counterparts, besides possibly darker colors? I mean certain sections of the ship have been removed to stick in other stuff, or compartments added to the outside for whatever reason. Anything like that?

The Pirate Carrack will for sure; not certain about the others.

More pirates. Again, they're built by the Rosenbergs.

• Pirate Kestrel: In its early days in the post-Bureau Federation, Merlin Starcraft Corporation bought the blueprints and technical readouts for the Kestrel from Matt Burch. The young company's engineers then took those readouts and tweaked them to make this new model, the CR-72 Kestrel -class Cruiser that carries a full squadron of Starhawks. Merlin has been making Kestrels for the civilian market ever since. The firm zealously guards its pride and joy against undesirables, but several older secondhand Kestrels have wound up in the hands of the Rosenbergs.
• Pirate Spitfire: Republic Heavy Engineering created the Spitfire -class Patrol and Attack Ship for law enforcement during the Meridian Star Republic, but it was made infamous as the ship of choice for the Kamir family of bounty hunters. It's believed that Leonard Rosenberg himself selected the keel for his family's skilled hands, having a taste for irony. Who would have thought that the stigma of flying a "pig ship" would prove to be such a minor concern?
• Pirate AG-4400: If there's one thing Cronus Engineering Systems is good at, it's cargo ships. The first ship Cronus ever brought to market, the AG-4400 is a classic, a decently armed light freighter with good range and a roomy cargo bay. It's also fast and agile, and has a relatively low price tag. Well-placed access panels and modular parts make it easy to repair. Pirates and smugglers frequently make use of the AG-4400; the Rosenbergs needed little impetus for tinkering, and supplying the base ships for the job is a simple matter.
• Pirate AM-3500: Following the runaway success of their debut freighter, the AG-4400, Cronus Engineering Systems released the AM-3500 medium freighter. The slim primary hull and powerful engines offset the extra weight of the bays, though its length makes it difficult to maneuver. Nevertheless, pirate matriarch Juno Rosenberg took a liking to the "thirty-five" and, partly to show off to her brother Leonard, fiddled with the design for over a year to produce this ship, one that frequently shows up in the Rimward areas of both the Milky Way and Andromeda Galaxies.
• Pirate AG-2550: The newest member of Cronus Engineering Systems' AG class has the smallest cargo bay, but its performance easily makes up for that. Though its odd shape doesn't look remotely spaceworthy, the AG-2550 Series Light Freighter has earned a reputation for screwballing the most elaborately laid trap. Smugglers often use it for a blockade runner, as it can easily outrun Galactic Anaconda -class destroyers. The Rosenbergs reserve most of their "Rosenberg Twenty-Fives" for their own highly illegal supply runs, but freqently sell off older models to the highest bidder.

This post has been edited by StarSword : 30 May 2010 - 10:05 AM

The Kestrel? My God, I think I've just died from the sheer amount of awesome.

This is starting to shape up to be a VERY awesome TC - can't wait to see this in its finished state.

R.I.P., Warlord Mike.

Here's the last four piratized ships.

• Pirate Corvette: Lodge's World Design Systems, though a minor player in the starship market, has earned a reputation for skilled craftsmanship, and their Corvettes show it. Despite the relatively large crew required to man it, the old CR90-3A is a common sight in planetary defense fleets, and its large cargo bay makes this combination freighter and light warship a popular choice among private captains as well. Needless to say, it was a tempting target for the Rosenberg family of pirate shipwrights. Sadly much of the beauty of the original is destroyed, but this price is paid off in full by the additional armament.
• Pirate Enforcer: ThrensinCorp is best known for its classic F-40 Dynacross, but it also builds several other light attack craft. The F-56 Enforcer Space Superiority Fighter is frequently used by system security forces. However, United Galactic Fighter Corps pilots have been known to deride it as a "flying tin can": though the Enforcer has good ECM, decent range, and can fly circles around most ships, its hull is quite weak, and it has no room for an astromech for in-flight repairs. Taking this as a cue (and appreciating the irony of pirating a security ship), the Rosenbergs more than doubled the power of the engines to offset the weight of denser hull plating and more powerful shields.
• Pirate Halberd: In comparison with the Enforcer that spawned it, ThrensinCorp's B-3 Halberd is an example of a quality gunship. With four heavy lasers on the bow, twin rear-facing turrets for defense, and Striker and Corona missile launchers for brute firepower, the Halberd can outfight most ships that cross its path. The Rosenbergs love making security people look like idiots; this version is Leonard Rosenberg's pride and joy.
• Pirate Saladin: The Terran Engineering Corporation DS-30 Saladin -class Destroyer is the third-most recent destroyer keel used by the UGN, after the discontinued Galaxy -class. Though relatively outdated, TEC still sells them since many poorer worlds cannot afford newer capital ships. TEC does background checks of would-be buyers as a matter of course, but the Saladin's age means there are second- or even third-hand ships on the market, some of which have been acquired by the Rosenbergs and souped up.

I should make one note: a ship called the Saladin -class destroyer appears in SFA as well, but this is a coincidence. My Saladin is named for the Crusades-era Muslim warlord, not for Star Trek's Saladin.

Before I cut out the copyrighted stuff, the Enforcer and Halberd were actually TIE ships built by Sienar, the TIE Enforcer and TIE Striker.

There are several other civilian ships that don't have pirate versions. The Superstar -class bulk freighter and Nebula -class starliner don't really lend themselves to conversion, the Kangaroo light freighter is wimpy in combat and doesn't have enough weapons mounts, and the Shinobi, Samurai and Foxfire are deemed fine as-is. The other five ships are the Starchaser and Ranger scout-ships, the hypergate tender and mining ship, and the Corsair (which probably should have a pirate version, but I ran out of ideas).

This post has been edited by StarSword : 30 May 2010 - 10:06 AM

Technical question:

In this plug, the IFF and density scanners always come as a unit, a "sensor suite" outfit that may or may not also include interference and/or murk reduction. I'm trying to write it so that you can only have one at a time. Since I haven't used b0 for anything yet, I had the idea to set the OUTF's Availability to !b0, OnPurchase to b0, and OnSell to !b0. Is this sufficient, or do I also need to add this to the SHIP resources, in order to prevent the player from adding an extra suite to a ship that comes with one?

(If anyone wants me to clarify this, please ask.)

I know a better way. Use the Oxxx test bit. It checks to see if the player has an outfit whose ID is 'xxx'. For example, say you have four different sets of sensor packages. Their IDs are 414, 415, 416, and 417. For 414's availability, set !o415 !o416 !o417. This way, players can't buy it if they have any of the others. Do the same for the other three, but add in !o414 and take out the one that corresponds with their own ID.

Alternatively, you can have each suite delete the others upon purchase. The benefit of this is that the player can always change their chosen suite. Say a player has Suite 416 from the above example. The get somewhere and find that Suite 414 is actually better, but Suite 416 isn't sold there, so they have to go find somewhere to sell of Suite 416 before they can install Suite 414. By having suite delete other suites upon purchase, players won't have that problem.

QUOTE (DarthKev @ May 30 2010, 05:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know a better way. Use the Oxxx test bit. It checks to see if the player has an outfit whose ID is 'xxx'. For example, say you have four different sets of sensor packages. Their IDs are 414, 415, 416, and 417. For 414's availability, set !o415 !o416 !o417. This way, players can't buy it if they have any of the others. Do the same for the other three, but add in !o414 and take out the one that corresponds with their own ID.

Alternatively, you can have each suite delete the others upon purchase. The benefit of this is that the player can always change their chosen suite. Say a player has Suite 416 from the above example. The get somewhere and find that Suite 414 is actually better, but Suite 416 isn't sold there, so they have to go find somewhere to sell of Suite 416 before they can install Suite 414. By having suite delete other suites upon purchase, players won't have that problem.

Huh.

Either one would work. I'll probably go with the first one and make it so you can sell sensor suites anywhere.

EDIT: Ok, it's fixed. I wrote out the following string and attached it to all the Availability fields:

QUOTE

!o173 !o174 !o246 !o302 !o330 !o350 !o392 !o393

This post has been edited by StarSword : 31 May 2010 - 12:15 PM

When I had to do something similar, I simply had it dxxx all other outfit IDs for that item type when bought. That way, when you buy it it automatically rids you of all other outfits of that type. I also gave all of them negative mass, so you always have an item of that type.

QUOTE (Shlimazel @ May 31 2010, 01:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When I had to do something similar, I simply had it dxxx all other outfit IDs for that item type when bought. That way, when you buy it it automatically rids you of all other outfits of that type. I also gave all of them negative mass, so you always have an item of that type.

Negative mass? :huh: What effect does that have?

I've seen the trick you mention in one other place: SFA's "command crew" hiring/firing situation, wherein to alter a ship's performance you hire new officers for your command crew, and can change them out (but can't have 2+ of the same kind at a time).

The downside of your idea is that you don't get money back for Dxxx'd outfits. The idea with the sensor suites being salable anywhere (but only buyable in some places) is to have the old suite defray the cost of installing the new one (like trading in a starship). And the idea is for almost every ship to come with some type of sensor suite preinstalled (the exception being the totalitarian Balcrusian People's Republic, wherein the sensor suite is only sold to government officials).

This post has been edited by StarSword : 31 May 2010 - 01:10 PM

Shli, I'm also missing the point of negative mass. Please enlighten.

StarSword, I see your point in the player 'getting their money back', so to speak. I guess for the situation, it would be best.

Regarding the BPR not giving civilians sensors, will there be other differences between civilian ships and government ships other than that? For example, I'm guessing the Balcrusians don't trust civilians to deliver sensitive military/government data/supplies/munitions. However, diverting a warship to transport something like that wouldn't be feasible, or only just so. So they must use government-run freighters for transport duties, right?

Basically, I'm asking if you're going to make (at least) two versions of each Balcrusian freight vessel, one for civilians, and one for the military that has the extra upgrades. If you're doing this, what other differences might there be other than sensors?

QUOTE (DarthKev @ May 31 2010, 03:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Shli, I'm also missing the point of negative mass. Please enlighten.

StarSword, I see your point in the player 'getting their money back', so to speak. I guess for the situation, it would be best.

Regarding the BPR not giving civilians sensors, will there be other differences between civilian ships and government ships other than that? For example, I'm guessing the Balcrusians don't trust civilians to deliver sensitive military/government data/supplies/munitions. However, diverting a warship to transport something like that wouldn't be feasible, or only just so. So they must use government-run freighters for transport duties, right?

Basically, I'm asking if you're going to make (at least) two versions of each Balcrusian freight vessel, one for civilians, and one for the military that has the extra upgrades. If you're doing this, what other differences might there be other than sensors?

You're correct in guessing that the Balkies (which, by the way, you should never call a Balcrusian to his face if you want to keep your own; it's like calling an African-American a n****r) use government-run freighters for sensitive cargoes. The BPR's "public security" restrictions extend in-game to blocking off everything but the lowest rung of outfits (chiefly Dagger-class plasma cannons, micromissiles, and "Blade-Cutters," a unique Balcrusian weapon which is essentially a spray of flak).

So yes, I am going to make 2+ versions of the two Balcrusian freighters.

The BPR has some free market money (it relies on defense contractors to build its armaments, for instance), but for all intents and purposes, it's a police state where the average citizen lives in fear (even if they're card-carrying Party members).

This post has been edited by StarSword : 31 May 2010 - 10:24 PM

So, more or less China in space?

You can't sell an item which has a sufficiently large negative mass, ensuring you will always have one.

Oh, I see. Every ship will come with a sensor outfit which gives a few (or several) hundred tons of free mass, at least enough that it would give more mass than the ship would have total if you sold off everything else on it. When you buy a new set, that gives you enough mass to sell the old one.

This post has been edited by DarthKev : 01 June 2010 - 11:29 AM

QUOTE (krugeruwsp @ Jun 1 2010, 10:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, more or less China in space?

Kinda, except more malevolent. And they (the Balcrusian government, mind you, not the average citizen) don't like the UGF at all.

QUOTE

Oh, I see. Every ship will come with a sensor outfit which gives a few (or several) hundred tons of free mass, at least enough that it would give more mass than the ship would have total if you sold off everything else on it. When you buy a new set, that gives you enough mass to sell the old one.

Eh? Er... if you're talking about the method I was using, no, that's not it.

The item has a very large negative mass, so you can't sell it (and, of course, you can only have one of that item). If you buy another item of the same type (For example, if you have a class A sensor and buy a class B sensor) then the old item will be deleted and you will have one of the new item. You won't be able to just sell the item and not have any of it, though, because of the negative mass.