On the sheet metal and rivets thing, I would imagine that it would be more for armoring against cosmic anomalies, such as radiation and micro-meteorites, rather than providing an air tight pressure vessel. To provide protection against the vacuum of space, NASA engineers used a type of aluminum foil on the lunar lander. I say, given this, rivets and sheet metal are entirely plausible for use in space travel.

QUOTE (Male_Valkyrie @ Jun 25 2010, 09:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Qaanol, that's a useful link (I think I new of its prior existence, but it didn't come immediately to mind).

I assume you're referring to the (at this point, only 3) ships I intend to insert into the game as pre-Override vessels? In which case, I have names already, and what are designation codes?

You are welcome. I am referring to the 6 ships that Peter Cartwright, creator of EVO, has listed as existing pre-Override. One that you ought to be aware of already is the Light Freighter that was converted to become the UE Destroyer.

QUOTE (PAC <abridged by Qaanol>)

Ship long names: These are just some details on the conventions used in the long name feature.

General: First should come the name of the organisation (or species) and of the shipyard where this model of the design originates (often unknown in the case of Crescent designs). Then the code, if used (see below). Then the 'brand name' of the ship class (if any). Then the full name of the ship class.

Human conventions: The code is formed from one or two letters, then a dash, then the number of the model, then an optional 'special' model letter in brackets. Thus: X(Y)-###((Z)) (the square brackets indicating optional elements). For example: S-747 (modern shuttle), DS-11 (UE Destroyer).

Once a letter or pair of letters is in use for a ship type, that set is reserved, and can't be used for any other design (even one of the same sort and even if the first ship type goes entirely out of service). So, the old Override freighter used 'F', so any new freighter can't use that. But as long as a ship is the same base design (however refined or altered) it can use the same letters.

Sometimes, even though a new ship model is based on an existing design, it will use new letters anyway (typically because the changes are so radical). One case is the (never seen) FL light freighters, which were refitted to become the DS destroyers. The design is still principally the same to this day (but it would be a bit embarassing to have an FL-designated warship!).

Small ships typically see many more models come and go (larger model numbers) than big ones.

Examples of full human ship names:
United Earth New England shipyards DS-11 destroyer
Craftsmen's Guild Iothe Prime shipyards TC-121 Helian class clipper
United Earth New Taranto shipyards PC-1 patrol cruiser (Note that this is PC-1 because it is the first model from the design. All new ships should be -1, for the most part.)

Voinian conventions: Voinians do not list shipyard of origin (all ship classes were first built at Borb Station anyway), and do not feature a code.

All Voinian ships do have a 'brand name' (which you would never know about if you didn't buy one).

Examples of full Voinian ship names:
Voinian Svass class supply ship
Voinian Demon class heavy fighter
Voinian Vengeance class dreadnought

In addition to the Light Freighter, there are 5 more Human ships that PAC specifies as pre-Override. If you want, I can tell you their names and designation codes, and also provide the list of all reserved designation codes. The list is comprehensive, so if you are striving to follow the official EVO timeline, these are the models that existed.

That would be most excellent. One of the changes I am making is regarding the U.E. Destroyer; it already exists at the start of the game. But like I said, I'd like to stick to dogma, as it were, as much as possible, so that information would be very useful.

QUOTE (Male_Valkyrie @ May 14 2010, 12:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Being a bit of a history geek, I'm interested in making a large-scale plugin to basically place the player right at the beginning of the Voinion War;

This is so weird. I've been wandering around here looking for missions help because I've started a very similar project. 'Origins' would be based on the Nova graphics, but would start characters off in Sol system without the benefits of hyperspace. Ping me if you want to chat....

Just wanted to let everyone watching this thread (all three of you ) that while work has stalled on this project, it is not vaporware. I haven't had a chance to work on it, between my real job, rehearsal for the play I'm in, and looking for another job, but I do intend to finish it at some point. With any luck, I'll be able to get back into it this fall, when my employment situation resolves itself a bit.

I've started doing a little more work on this project, trying to get to the fun part (when I can really start writing the missions; editing descriptions, creating outfits and ships, etc, is not my forte, but I want to get all that done so I can avoid thinking about it while I'm writing).

I decided to change my original plan a bit, and make the UE Destroyer only available to the player by upgrading from a Light Freighter, to simulate how PAC said it came into existence. This, obviously, will require the player to purchase a Light Freighter, and then purchase an outfit to upgrade it.

My question is, how do I go about having the outfit transform the player's Light Freighter into a Destroyer? I want the Freighter to definitely not be a warship, and require a rather serious transformation to become a Destroyer (upgrades in speed, acceleration, armor, shields, etc., etc.). Should I have the outfit manually change every necessary aspect of the player's ship, or is there a way to have the outfit literally give the player a different ship?

The Exxx NCB will give the player a ship of xxx id type, retaining all of their old outfits and giving the player the default outfits of the new ship. The Cxxx command does the same thing, but the player only keeps their old outfits, not getting any new outfits. All you have to do is make an outfit and put one of those two NCBs in the When Purchased field. If your ship's ID is 311, for example, it would be E311 or C311. The outfit doesn't have to do anything else, except take the player's money.

Most excellent, thanks!

You may also want to consider the Hxxx NCB. It works the same as the two Shlimazel mentioned, but the player will lose any non-persistent outfits on their ship and be given everything that comes with the new ship. The Chrome Valkyrie Upgrade that upgrades the player from a Starbridge to a Mod Starbridge in EVN uses the Hxxx NCB.

Right after Shlimazel's post, I found the info he was referencing, including the Hxxx bit, which is the one I'm gonna use. Thanks again to both of you!

If a given pers has a ship which is only allowed to show up after a certain bit expression is met, will the pers show up before that bit is set anyway? (e.g., Pers X has a UE Carrier. UE Carriers only show up after b9 is set. Can Pers X show up before b9 is set?)

Edit: Another question; if a pers is set to show up in systems of a specific government, does it matter if systems of that government don't exist at the start of the game (i.e., will only show up later, depending on what the player does)?

This post has been edited by Male_Valkyrie : 16 September 2010 - 11:28 PM

Yes and no.

Yes, a përs ship will still show up even if the ship it flies isn't available to the player yet or even used by the AI yet. In fact, you could even make a përs ship that flies a completely unique ship that the player can never buy nor is seen under AI control except by the përs.

No, it does not matter if systems of a specific gövt exist or not at the beginning. The përs will simply show up in them later when the systems show up.

Update:

I'm still working on this project, for those two or three of you who may have been wondering if it was vaporware. I'm currently scripting the four primary-strings (the basic universe being, for all practical purposes, done. A few more pers and junk are probably all that's needed). While I'm doing this I'll write a bunch of generic missions and mini-strings, and plan to start scripting the handful of minor-strings sometime later.

This post has been edited by Male_Valkyrie : 06 November 2010 - 10:44 PM

Cool. Any possibility you could give us a preview of what's in store? What new ships have you added that become obsolete by EVO's time? Are there any new factions that are killed off/go bankrupt/join with other factions before the events of EVO?

Or do we have to wait till you release it before we find out more about it? Do I have to beg?

Hmm. Well, I suppose it's only fair if I share a little bit of non-vital info, and far be it from me to make anyone beg for it ;).

Here's the rundown on the new ships and the one new weapon I added; all of this is available at the start of the game, so only a couple spoilers are involved (I may well add more ships and/or weapons later, but they're not the priority right now). I've got a long morning here with not much to do, so I'll see if I can type up a brief overview of the current state of affairs, maybe a short history of the Space Age so far, and get that up before long as well.

UE Striker
From the desc: "The Striker was designed for police and patrol work at the behest of the Earth governments, when they realized piracy was becoming a problem in certain areas of the Galaxy. So far it has proven up to the task, being more heavily outfitted and faster than almost all civilian vessels; nonetheless some colonies in the southern parts of the galaxy have begun clamering for a larger, more powerful vessel to protect them from the growing renegade problem."

This is a decent ship, a medium-sized gunboat, and will likely be the first warship the Player gets his hands on. It's certainly not up the caliber of the UE Destroyer which will become available to the Player fairly early in two of the strings, and will be invented by the player in a third, but it's pretty much the best available in the early stages of the game, without pretty seriously retrofitting a civilian ship.

Guardian
From the desc: The Guardian is either a heavy fighter or a light gunboat, depending on which captain of one you ask. Originally produced as a police and patrol ship by one of the Earth governments, it was largely replaced in UE fleets by the Striker, and made available for civilian purchase. Now it is popular among freighter captains who want some extra protection in their convoys, and younger pilots who want an easily hotrodded ship.

The description pretty much says it all. This heavy fighter (doesn't really have the weapons space to be considered a gunboat, at least not in my mind) is dangerous in numbers, and not particularly troublesome otherwise. It'll mostly be seen guarding convoys and Independent worlds, and causing a certain amount of trouble for Renegades. Adventurous Players may wish to try it out, but it's not as powerful as the Striker and when the UE Fighter is invented it'll be completely obsolete. This is as good a place as any to note that no Human ship at the beginning of the game, UE or civilian, is a match for any Voinian ship, and the Player will likely spend a hefty percentage of his early encounters with them running away.

Voyager
From the desc: The explorer-class ships were among the first built for hyperspace travel, intended to seek out new planets ripe for colonization; they were outfitted with large fuel tanks and not much else. Once colonization of known worlds became more interesting to Earth governments than discovering more, the original explorers became less popular, and new models, with cargo bays capable of assisting the colonization process, were moved into production. The Voyager model is the newest of these.

Essentially an early model of the Scoutship, with good range, a decent cargo bay, and enough speed and maneuverability to get out of sticky situations (which I mentioned before, will be valuable when dealing with Voinians). Not much more to say.

Light Freighter
From the desc: A very early design by New England shipyards, the Light Freighter was one of the first class of ships to be mass-produced and sold at a reasonable price. It remains one of the most popular designs in the Known Galaxy, and is the backbone of many a freighter captain's fleet.

Probably everyone knows this, but this is the ship design which becomes the UE Destroyer. Until then, it's just an ordinary competent freighter, with little to distinguish it.

D.A.R.T. Missile Launcher, and D.A.R.T. Missiles
From the desc: Making use of a simple propulsion system employed by Humanity for several thousand years, and turreted to compensate for a complete lack of a guidance system, the Davian Armaments Repel Target Missile Launcher (popularly called the D.A.R.T. Launcher) comes standard on most UE vessels, and many civilian captains have chosen to install one on their ships as well.

From the desc: Davian Armaments Repel Target (D.A.R.T.) missiles were developed soon after Humanity reached for the stars, initially intended for destroying or redirecting astroids which might collide with large, less manueverable spaceships (hence their turreted firing platform). While this is still their most common use, they've also been found useful in dealing with the small number of renegades at large in the Galaxy. While not particularly powerful, they can be carried in large enough numbers to make a difference in battle.

Essentially Needle Missiles with no guidance system, these are the only secondary weapons available to the Player at the start of the game. Their disadvantages are obvious (they're weak and unguided, no match for Heavy Rockets or even Hunter Missiles), but they do have some advantages; they don't take up any weapon space, they're fully turreted, and they're dirt cheap.

This post has been edited by Male_Valkyrie : 07 November 2010 - 10:51 AM

Oooops...

This post has been edited by Sp3cies : 09 November 2010 - 05:16 PM

Oooh, sounding good. Seems like you put a lot of thought into what you have so far. I like that.

Excerpts from A Brief History Of Space Travel, by Edward Miers and Ho Chen Lihn

From Chapter Two: The Next Frontier
"... After this second failure to colonize Mars, many Earth governments wrote off the idea of interplanetary colonization entirely. The sudden invention of hyperdrive technology by scientists based out of Geneva changed this, though; suddenly the possibility of exploring planets outside our own Solar System existed, and the zeal to explore, discover, and colonize was rekindled..."

"... and the encouragement of global conglomerates like Google International. These early colonizations were a success, and encouraged the spread of humanity through the stars. Independent organizations, individuals, and businesses began commissioning starships and organizing groups of hopeful colonists; some in the spirit of discovery, some for financial gain, still others for personal or religious reasons (see Chapter Eight: The Church Versus The Heavens for more on this subject). By September of the year 2039 A.D. on the Earth calendar, five separate worlds had been colonized, and plans were well underway by various parties to establish settlements on another six."

From Chapter Five: Government In The Space Age
"Were a student from the early part of this century to look at a political map of Earth today, he would probably not notice any substantial differences. The countries he knew in his day are all still marked on the map, as if they were still the political entities they once were. But in many cases, this is due largely to tradition, and a political map of Earth today does not very accurately represent the actual present political situation on Mankind's home planet..."

"... which, when ratified by the requisite twenty-seven nations, created the single European political entity we know today as the European Alliance. Politics on Earth now revolved around three superpowers, each of them paying little more than lip-service to the notion that the nations from which they were composed retained some degree of autonomy."

"Many political scientists have mourned the consolidation of political power on Earth, and warned of the dangers inherent to vesting too much authority in too few hands. The many countries not formally affiliated with any of the superpowers have protested what they see as a usurpation of influence over world events by a relatively small number of nations. But the fact remains that the age of exploration and colonization we are now in would not have been possible without the unified support and investment of dozens of nations, which in turn was greatly facilitated, if not entirely made possible, by the creation of the European Alliance, the Democratic Republic Of Asia, and the American Confederacy. Their respective investments in colonization efforts, and their recent cooperation in creating the United Earth police force, has, for better or worse, created the Space Age we now live in."

From the Epilogue
"So what awaits Mankind in the coming generations? This question will have to be answered by later historians, but we can provide some conjecture. The Independent worlds in the South are faced with what all accounts describe as a growing menace from renegades based out of the Proxima Nebula; the United Earth police will have to make a decision to either commit more resources to that region of the Galaxy, or else inform the Independent worlds that they are truly on their own..."

"...as yet, and no new hyperlinks have been created in the far East or North of the Known Galaxy, so further exploration will almost certainly focus on the West; the recent creation of colonies such as Atlantia and Kalo seem to confirm this. What lies beyond these systems is the next great mystery for Mankind to solve. Will further exploration reveal yet more planets ripe for colonization and exploitation, or is there little more than barren rock left to find? Will Humanity's push Westward lead to the discovery of other intelligent life, or will it confirm that, for the moment, we are alone in our Galaxy?
Whatever the answers to these questions prove to be, it seems certain that the drive to explore and discover, the persistence to push forward in the face of adversity, and the ingenuity to make our dreams reality - in other words, the traits which have distinguished the Human Race since the invention of the wheel - will see us forward into the future, and help us make our mark on this brave new galaxy before us."

This post has been edited by Male_Valkyrie : 09 November 2010 - 03:32 PM

QUOTE (Male_Valkyrie @ Nov 7 2010, 10:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

D.A.R.T. Missile Launcher, and D.A.R.T. Missiles
<snip>

Essentially Needle Missiles with no guidance system, these are the only secondary weapons available to the Player at the start of the game. Their disadvantages are obvious (they're weak and unguided, no match for Heavy Rockets or even Hunter Missiles), but they do have some advantages; they don't take up any weapon space, they're fully turreted, and they're dirt cheap.

This just made me wonder—and of course you have no obligation to answer, indeed it will probably be more fun for me to find out when you release your game—but it made me wonder what plans you have for the humans stealing/copying Heavy Rocket technology.

I know you mentioned that Hunter Missiles might be invented during the course of the game, and I remembered that Heavy Rockets were copied directly from Voinian designs, probably very early after the first Voinian/Human battle. And for that matter, Space Mines were copied/stolen as well, and used by both sides until their ban by treaty.

Also, I’m really hoping for early versions of the Miranu Courier, which are fully circular, to show up very rarely in flight, perhaps as a përs.

This post has been edited by Qaanol : 09 November 2010 - 10:47 PM

Well.. for now, suffice it to say that what I said about the D.A.R.T.s is true; at the start of the game, they're the only secondary weapon available to the player.

For the rest, just know that I am trying to be guided by PAC's descriptions of how things happened and approximately when. So that might give you some pretty big hints regarding events in First Contact. But I don't want to say too much.

Will keep y'all updated, but I don't expect to get a lot done over the rest of this week or weekend (or much of next week, for that matter); in the middle of Hell Week for a show, and time spent not on stage is being spent sleeping and trying not to get sick.