@zacha-pedro, on Apr 7 2007, 01:35 PM, said in [ANN] MissionComputer 3.3.3 Now Released:

(btw, is "programme" a Canadianism?)

Britishism, like cheque (it's check kthx).

Very happy to see an upgrade to the Galaxy editor. Also glad to see OS9/X.0-2 is being dropped (hopefully will make development easier and faster). Looks like 4.0 will be quite the upgrade; I look forward to it.

In truth I think even the developmental versions are already more useable than 3.3.3 in most respects; I want to at least finish the ship editor and do some other polishing before I release the first preview, though.

That galaxy editor is much closer to the way I hoped it would evolve. For instance; dragging in place where the systems will be. I'm very excited about the galaxy editor = very useful!

New in the latest build of MissionComputer 4.0 is a fully-functional editor for EV Nova ’s shďp resources:

Unfortunately, I had to put a few of the fields into tabs, as I want to maintain 1024x768 compatibility for this version.

Looking nice

Indeed! I can't wait for MC 4!

Having windows that size (Ship Editor) somewhat hurts the ability to efficiently have multiple windows open at once. Albiet, it is better than before. Having multiple resource windows open at once means windows would be smaller and fields distributed into tabs catagorized by their general use. This allows the developer to focus directly on the piece of data they are working on at the time; and have similiar resources open alongside. Both concepts have their advantages/disadvantages; however I point it out just for your consideration.

@trinix, on Apr 21 2007, 12:59 PM, said in [ANN] MissionComputer 3.3.3 Now Released:

Having windows that size (Ship Editor) somewhat hurts the ability to efficiently have multiple windows open at once. Albiet, it is better than before. Having multiple resource windows open at once means windows would be smaller and fields distributed into tabs catagorized by their general use.

I’ve thought about that sort of thing, but it’s only rarely that the fields go together in a way that makes for meaningful tab divisions, to say nothing of the work involved in maintaining a tab panel; as screens get larger, large windows are less of a nuisance, and I do provide a Window menu and support for Command-` as an alternative way of handling them.

Through a lot of trial and error, I've come up with a meaningfully organized tabbed division for an EV editor. Gosh, it took me days of continous re-organization to make something that looked good and made sense. Harder than it looks!

I like having multiple ships windows open along with other resources to quickly compare stats and to make fine adjustments on a field by field basis between them. At most, one would be-able to compare 3 ships if they had 3 monitors. I don't think most people are even running a dual-monitor setup; although - I don't know for sure, I know I only use one 17" monitor. For ship resources, I would like having about 3-4 open at once + other resource windows. The design I came up with allows for 5-6 to be open comfortable on a 17" monitor. I may be on the odd side perhaps having so many resources viewable on one screen at once, idk how other developers feel about that though. I'm not a big user of the Window menu, I like to use Apple Expose.

PS: Will that double "Help" menu be gone in MC4? Was that caused by OS9 compatibility?

@trinix, on Apr 21 2007, 04:05 PM, said in [ANN] MissionComputer 3.3.3 Now Released:

Harder than it looks!

Indeed — just updating the old mďsn editor to work with my new frameworks was an incredible amount of work, as was adapting it to support EV Nova back in MissionComputer 2.0.

@trinix, on Apr 21 2007, 04:05 PM, said in [ANN] MissionComputer 3.3.3 Now Released:

At most, one would be-able to compare 3 ships if they had 3 monitors.

On the other hand, if they were in tabs, you would have to constantly move back and forth to see everything, and to have the same information in each window. I think the disadvantages of tabs outweigh the advantage of a smaller window, especially once you count the disadvantages that I face as developer.

I can fit two ships on my mid-size Cinema HD — the edges of some of the labels are cut off, but it’s easy enough to guess what ‘uel/energy’ does.

@trinix, on Apr 21 2007, 04:05 PM, said in [ANN] MissionComputer 3.3.3 Now Released:

I'm not a big user of the Window menu, I like to use Apple Expose.

I don’t use the Window menu much either — Exposé is much more convenient — but it’s there for anyone who finds it helpful. Command-` I find very useful.

@trinix, on Apr 21 2007, 04:05 PM, said in [ANN] MissionComputer 3.3.3 Now Released:

Will that double "Help" menu be gone in MC4? Was that caused by OS9 compatibility?

With MissionComputer 4.0, I’ve ported the entire code base over to REALbasic 2007, so the second Help menu, the resource-loss problems, and all of the other REALbasic 3.5.2 annoyances are gone. It’s barely distinguishable from the Cocoa-based editor on which I was working at one point, with the added bonus that it’s actually going to be finished.

@david-arthur, on Apr 22 2007, 09:46 AM, said in [ANN] MissionComputer 3.3.3 Now Released:

I think the disadvantages of tabs outweigh the advantage of a smaller window.
...
Command-` I find very useful.

Agreed and agreed. If people really want to see half a dozen resources on screen at once, perhaps you could keep the RDL editors and have the option of using those instead (like in ResEdit where you could open with template or open with hex editor)?

One small request: allow arrow keys to move items in DITLs (have I already requested that?)

I'm just curious, when can we expect an "MC 4 Development" thread in this forum, or are just gonna use this one, cause I'm hoping that you'd be willing to add in some static information and stuff so they can act as quick reference guide. Things like what bits and resource IDs are used

@guy, on Apr 21 2007, 06:42 PM, said in [ANN] MissionComputer 3.3.3 Now Released:

One small request: allow arrow keys to move items in DITLs (have I already requested that?)

You haven’t, but I’ll add it to the list.

@coraxus, on Apr 22 2007, 06:10 PM, said in [ANN] MissionComputer 3.3.3 Now Released:

...I'm hoping that you'd be willing to add in some static information and stuff so they can act as quick reference guide. Things like what bits and resource IDs are used

I haven’t settled on exactly what content will be included, but I have implemented a new HTML-based help system for MissionComputer 4. My main plans are for detailed adaptations of the bible entries for each resource type specifically keyed to MissionComputer’s editors, and perhaps some sort of general introduction, but I wouldn’t be absolutely averse to including some information about the standard scenario if someone were to compile it.

@guy, on Apr 21 2007, 06:42 PM, said in [ANN] MissionComputer 3.3.3 Now Released:

One small request: allow arrow keys to move items in DITLs (have I already requested that?)

and implemented.

I also have a question for everyone: I’ve shown you the massively-revised star map editor, which I think is significantly more useable than the old 3.x version, but at the moment the editor for individual systems is still more or less the same as in 3.3.3, apart from the modifications to support multiple editors open at once. A few people have mentioned suggestions already — the ability to zoom in and out, and having the Add Planet button always enabled rather than requiring that you select a slot first — but does anyone have any other requests that they think would make it more useful or useable?

@david-arthur, on Apr 22 2007, 05:24 PM, said in [ANN] MissionComputer 3.3.3 Now Released:

...but I wouldn’t be absolutely averse to including some information about the standard scenario if someone were to compile it.

There was a app I think that compile the Nova mission and bits in XLS format, and what I did was to color code them awhile back (though it's a lil' incomplete), would that help?

Enable it to show planet sprites from any file in Nova Files or Plug-ins, rather than only the current plug-in.

Another thing that would help in some circumstances (though I'm not sure if this is plausible) would be to have an option of showing spöbs' weapons ranges in the s˙st editor.

This next suggestion doesn't involve the system editor, but it would be nice to be able to search for an NCB kind of like you can in the EVN Mission Viewer, except it would also be able to search cröns and other resources, not just mďsns.

@david-arthur, on Apr 21 2007, 11:10 AM, said in [ANN] MissionComputer 3.3.3 Now Released:

New in the latest build of MissionComputer 4.0 is a fully-functional editor for EV Nova 's shďp resources:

Unfortunately, I had to put a few of the fields into tabs, as I want to maintain 1024x768 compatibility for this version.

That does look very nice. I'd think that shield/armour/etc could be set in tabs with armaments, energy could be moved from the defence section to movement, and it might be appropriate to have the image controls shifted to a menu. I'm no interface designer, though, and the improvements are amazing.

@nil-kimas, on Apr 23 2007, 05:54 PM, said in [ANN] MissionComputer 3.3.3 Now Released:

Enable it to show planet sprites from any file in Nova Files or Plug-ins, rather than only the current plug-in.

I’m wary about this sort of thing; I can see the benefits, but it creates problems for anyone who wants to create a plug-in that doesn’t refer to the standard scenario, and I don’t want MissionComputer to be a programme that needs a great deal of configuration before it can be used.

@nil-kimas, on Apr 23 2007, 05:54 PM, said in [ANN] MissionComputer 3.3.3 Now Released:

Another thing that would help in some circumstances (though I'm not sure if this is plausible) would be to have an option of showing spöbs' weapons ranges in the s˙st editor.

This is interesting — I’ll give it some thought.

@nil-kimas, on Apr 23 2007, 05:54 PM, said in [ANN] MissionComputer 3.3.3 Now Released:

This next suggestion doesn't involve the system editor, but it would be nice to be able to search for an NCB kind of like you can in the EVN Mission Viewer, except it would also be able to search cröns and other resources, not just mďsns.

This isn’t really a resource editor function, but I’ll consider the possibility of offering something along these lines through the Utilities menu.

@aelran, on Apr 24 2007, 04:27 AM, said in [ANN] MissionComputer 3.3.3 Now Released:

I'd think that shield/armour/etc could be set in tabs with armaments, energy could be moved from the defence section to movement, and it might be appropriate to have the image controls shifted to a menu.

I’ve placed energy along with shields and armour because it works the same way. Since it’s used for multiple purposes (jumping, afterburner, cloaking, outfits, and weapons) it would also be confusing to group it with just one of them.

My general policy is not to use the menu bar for anything that’s specific to particular editors, since menus operate on the application level. I’m removing the instances where 3.x already does this (which are left over from when the map editors were a separate programme called Cartographer) and would prefer not to add any new ones.

@david-arthur, on Apr 25 2007, 04:33 AM, said in [ANN] MissionComputer 3.3.3 Now Released:

I'm wary about this sort of thing; I can see the benefits, but it creates problems for anyone who wants to create a plug-in that doesn't refer to the standard scenario, and I don't want MissionComputer to be a programme that needs a great deal of configuration before it can be used.

Could it simply be a preference that is disabled by default? Optimally, I'd like the ability to select which files the program was drawing from for these purposes, but I can completely understand if such things were not incorporated in Crusoe.

@david-arthur, on Apr 25 2007, 04:33 AM, said in [ANN] MissionComputer 3.3.3 Now Released:

I've placed energy along with shields and armour because it works the same way. Since it's used for multiple purposes (jumping, afterburner, cloaking, outfits, and weapons) it would also be confusing to group it with just one of them.

Ah. Yes, that makes sense.

Quote

My general policy is not to use the menu bar for anything that's specific to particular editors, since menus operate on the application level. I'm removing the instances where 3.x already does this (which are left over from when the map editors were a separate programme called Cartographer) and would prefer not to add any new ones.

Sorry, I was unclear. I've probably used the wrong term, and, thinking further, it wouldn't be appropriate. The description and picture buttons take up an amount of space that is probably not proportional to the time a developer would be using them. I would expect that, when dealing with shďps, we spend more time on modifying handling than the graphics or in-game descriptions, as they don't need to be play-tested.

As it looks like the buttons in question will open other windows, it might be reasonable to integrate these into a single effective editor - this might be technically difficult, but I can't tell. One could then shift the inherant AI/government controls to that section of the screen*, as it seems connected to description - I acknowledge that in practice, this is only partially the case, but I think the link might be strong enough for the context to make sense. The upshot of all this is that the window's vertical height can be reduced by one line, and the interface would have less empty space and fewer generally unused buttons.
As regards the star map editor, the only thing I'd like is a keyboard command for shifting between functionalities. I don't recall whether this function is current.

• The government control seems a bit long - I understand that government names may be long, but that seems excessive. Is there some way of handling labels that exceed the menubar length?

EDIT: – issues (for that, I entered "–")

This post has been edited by Aelran : 24 April 2007 - 05:54 PM