EV: Genesis is looking for cool picts.

Okay here is the deal. EV: Genesis is reforming. We have lost alot of our team and need some enthusiastic graphics peeps to get the TC kick started again. We have gotten one so far and we probably need three more. The more flexible the better. A laudry list of graphics we need are all new ship graphics, outfit graphics, and planet graphics. We especially need the planet graphics. We would also like to license some premade stuff if possible. Simply because there is no reason to reinvent the wheel when there is already one in the corner collecting dust. So if you have a repitoire of unused graphics that is also welcome. You will answer to Darth Eddy as he is the head of the graphics side of the plug.

As a side note I would be willing to take one writer...as that is my department. I would be doing the big writing like the huge storyline material and extensive race relations stuff. What I need another writer for is descriptions and small stuff. Basically a ghost writer. I give the general outline...you fill in the details. We'll get you up to speed on the story as fast as possible. We already have the bit department covered.

Go ahead and apply on this thread if you are interested. I'll send you a more formal application when I get some interest. DE will have his own system for selecting a couple noteworthy graphics guys. Notoriety helps however as does previous work we can pin down. Thanks everyone.

Swithich, on Jan 8 2006, 09:33 PM, said:

What I need another writer for is descriptions and small stuff.

That's not the small stuff. The hardest and most tedious part of Nova writing was working on the planet and bar descriptions. There were hundreds of them, and they were all fairly long.

Urgh.

Dave @ ATMOS

pipeline, on Jan 9 2006, 01:39 AM, said:

That's not the small stuff. The hardest and most tedious part of Nova writing was working on the planet and bar descriptions. There were hundreds of them, and they were all fairly long.

Urgh.

Dave @ ATMOS
View Post

YOu'd probably know better then myself, but writing 100 paragraphs...one at a time seems easier then writing a ten page behemoth storyline and preamble. Sure the descs may be longer in reality, but putting 10 pages of coherent and pertinent material into a story seems much harder to me. To each his own I guess.

Swithich, on Jan 9 2006, 11:03 AM, said:

YOu'd probably know better then myself, but writing 100 paragraphs...one at a time seems easier then writing a ten page behemoth storyline and preamble. Sure the descs may be longer in reality, but putting 10 pages of coherent and pertinent material into a story seems much harder to me. To each his own I guess.
View Post

Heh.

Swithich, on Jan 9 2006, 12:03 PM, said:

YOu'd probably know better then myself, but writing 100 paragraphs...one at a time seems easier then writing a ten page behemoth storyline and preamble. Sure the descs may be longer in reality, but putting 10 pages of coherent and pertinent material into a story seems much harder to me. To each his own I guess.
View Post

To tell a story you need a point of view to follow, if not necessarily narrate from, that the reader can identify with.

For instance, The Lord of the Rings is the story of Gandalf's work to effect the fall of Sauron. Both Gandalf and Sauron are immortal Maiar spirits, but the story is told from the perspective of a few Hobbits. Hobbits, being simply farmers and not larger-than-life players in world politics, are easy for the reader to connect with and understand. The Lord of the Rings perhaps glosses over some of the more intricate things going on, either because the hobbits don't see or don't understand them, but it gains far more than it loses by having a cohesive storytelling device.

The Silmarillion, on the other hand, has no such way for the reader to enter the world, and consists mainly of pages and pages of descriptions of people (and elves, Maiar, Valar, and other characters,) places (either in the world or outside of it,) and events that, while they tell the whole story and set up the world of Middle Earth, are very difficult to read.

Therefore, I would suggest to you, Swithich, that, if you don't already have one, you find a method of writing that makes the story you're trying to convey easy to follow and fun to read, minimizing the fact that it's a "history lesson" as much as possible.

Outfit, ship, planet, and bar descriptions, as well as hail and comm quotes, escort comments, message buoys, and junk cargo names, each have to tell a story in themselves. Not a whole story, of course, but they have to be perfect reflections of the people who would use them. It is important that the universe should feel alive, and the vital parts of it come from the suggestions that many people in many places are doing many things on their own, either for profit, for pleasure, or for politics.

One of the best examples of a well-integrated story never actually told is that of Saalian Brandy in EV Override. First there's Saalia, with its description and bar, as well as its commodity exchange. Then there's Freeport, and that one mission to smuggle the brandy. And finally, what really makes clear just how powerful the drink is, there's that one bar off in the crescent (I can't remember which planet) that mentions the brandy, and how no matter where one goes one can always find a glass of it. You can't actually get the commodity there, but just the idea that somebody has brought some halfway across the galaxy really drives home the point that it's a game about free enterprise.

To that end, the writer of such minor descriptions should strive not merely to describe, in a passive voice, the situation at hand, but should bring it to life by inserting references to things not seen, things not doable, that reflect the underlying principles of the scenario.

Hmm I might be interested in writing. I'll apply for it.

Be certain to tell your writer what crucial events took place, where they occurred and how long ago it was in relation to the current timeframe. Put the story on the map and then extract the pieces from it that you want to tell.

This post has been edited by Shrout1 : 09 January 2006 - 04:53 PM

pipeline, on Jan 9 2006, 04:39 AM, said:

That's not the small stuff. The hardest and most tedious part of Nova writing was working on the planet and bar descriptions. There were hundreds of them, and they were all fairly long.

Urgh.

Dave @ ATMOS
View Post

I quite enjoy that part, actually.

Qaanol, on Jan 9 2006, 12:03 PM, said:

To tell a story you need a point of view to follow, if not necessarily narrate from, that the reader can identify with.

For instance, The Lord of the Rings is the story of Gandalf's work to effect the fall of Sauron. Both Gandalf and Sauron are immortal Maiar spirits, but the story is told from the perspective of a few Hobbits. Hobbits, being simply farmers and not larger-than-life players in world politics, are easy for the reader to connect with and understand. The Lord of the Rings perhaps glosses over some of the more intricate things going on, either because the hobbits don't see or don't understand them, but it gains far more than it loses by having a cohesive storytelling device.

The Silmarillion, on the other hand, has no such way for the reader to enter the world, and consists mainly of pages and pages of descriptions of people (and elves, Maiar, Valar, and other characters,) places (either in the world or outside of it,) and events that, while they tell the whole story and set up the world of Middle Earth, are very difficult to read.

Therefore, I would suggest to you, Swithich, that, if you don't already have one, you find a method of writing that makes the story you're trying to convey easy to follow and fun to read, minimizing the fact that it's a "history lesson" as much as possible.

Outfit, ship, planet, and bar descriptions, as well as hail and comm quotes, escort comments, message buoys, and junk cargo names, each have to tell a story in themselves. Not a whole story, of course, but they have to be perfect reflections of the people who would use them. It is important that the universe should feel alive, and the vital parts of it come from the suggestions that many people in many places are doing many things on their own, either for profit, for pleasure, or for politics.

One of the best examples of a well-integrated story never actually told is that of Saalian Brandy in EV Override. First there's Saalia, with its description and bar, as well as its commodity exchange. Then there's Freeport, and that one mission to smuggle the brandy. And finally, what really makes clear just how powerful the drink is, there's that one bar off in the crescent (I can't remember which planet) that mentions the brandy, and how no matter where one goes one can always find a glass of it. You can't actually get the commodity there, but just the idea that somebody has brought some halfway across the galaxy really drives home the point that it's a game about free enterprise.

To that end, the writer of such minor descriptions should strive not merely to describe, in a passive voice, the situation at hand, but should bring it to life by inserting references to things not seen, things not doable, that reflect the underlying principles of the scenario.
View Post

Okay first of all...I know how to write. I'm in college and I've been in honors/ap/accelerated writing for three years now. So I think I can handle writing the big stuff. Second, I've read the LOTRs in its entirety, and parts of the Silmarillion (as you suggest I use it like an index when I need to look stuff up). Third, realize exactly what both jobs entail and I don't have any delusions about what I need to do. In fact the reason I am doing it this way is because we have had lots of problems with writing in the TC. Basically we had five writers who all had great ideas, but never got much down on paper. Thus I am going sith style...one apprentice and one master. It should move along much smoother.

Mackilroy, on Jan 9 2006, 12:27 PM, said:

Hmm I might be interested in writing. I'll apply for it.
View Post

Okay I'll wait a week or so and if we don't get anyone else you can have it. I already know you are a pretty good writer. I we get somemore applicant I'll need a sample. I'd prefer a nova like mini story.

Shrout1, on Jan 9 2006, 12:53 PM, said:

Be certain to tell your writer what crucial events took place, where they occurred and how long ago it was in relation to the current timeframe. Put the story on the map and then extract the pieces from it that you want to tell.
View Post

My writer will know everything I know. But we will have different spheres of influence on the story. This should streamline the process. No arguments about what should and should not be there.

Okay, I don't need any more advice thank you. We need to get back to the business at hand of hiring graphics people and writers. I got one writer applicant.

This post has been edited by Swithich : 09 January 2006 - 07:52 PM

Swithich, on Jan 8 2006, 10:33 AM, said:

Okay here is the deal. EV: Genesis is reforming. We have lost alot of our team and need some enthusiastic graphics peeps to get the TC kick started again. We have gotten one so far and we probably need three more. The more flexible the better. A laudry list of graphics we need are all new ship graphics, outfit graphics, and planet graphics. We especially need the planet graphics. We would also like to license some premade stuff if possible. Simply because there is no reason to reinvent the wheel when there is already one in the corner collecting dust. So if you have a repitoire of unused graphics that is also welcome. You will answer to Darth Eddy as he is the head of the graphics side of the plug.

As a side note I would be willing to take one writer...as that is my department. I would be doing the big writing like the huge storyline material and extensive race relations stuff. What I need another writer for is descriptions and small stuff. Basically a ghost writer. I give the general outline...you fill in the details. We'll get you up to speed on the story as fast as possible. We already have the bit department covered.

Go ahead and apply on this thread if you are interested. I'll send you a more formal application when I get some interest. DE will have his own system for selecting a couple noteworthy graphics guys. Notoriety helps however as does previous work we can pin down. Thanks everyone.
View Post

**To be quite and brutally honest with you, I think you've got the wrong approach here, one that I see (and have seen before) as being destined for failure. The reason? Quite simply, the fact that you're going to all the trouble to have an "application process" with "writing samples" makes me wonder if maybe you haven't lost sight of the bigger picture here. It's a game plug-in, the work is going to suck, and the easy solution to this problem is not to find somebody else to do the work you don't want to do. The main issue being with this is that if you're unwilling to really grind it out and do the things you really have to do, your plug-in has no chance of success. It'd be nice if plug-in making was all grandiose, high flying, epic government histories and preambles and star maps, but it isn't. Those are valuable parts of the design process, but ultimately meaningless if never put to any use.

Also, I think you're a bit misguided here if you think anybody who has 'notoriety' or is 'noteworthy' will want to be your bar and planet description peon, you, an unproven plug-in maker, you've really lost grip of the reality of this particular situation. Someone who wants something to do to break into plug-ins, maybe, but don't expect Martin Turner to be banging down your door with writing samples.

I'm sorry if you take what I wrote as a personal attack on you, it isn't. I think its more of a general frustration with developers these days; everyone seems to be of a lot of talk and little action. There are some extremely talented people on this board, but no projects ever seem to come to fruition. I think maybe its about time people that were serious about making a complete scenario stop writing preambles and making game trailers and actually get down in the trenches and start working.

Again, that last bit wasn't aimed at you, Swithich, just a general statement.

_bomb

**

Just a clarification- when you say planet pics, do you mean LunarCell-style planets? Or Terragen renders? Or both?

If you have reference pictures, I might be able to do a few (I have little time) ships. If you want to see what I can do check out my entry in the "Arrow v Striker" graphics contest.

Would it be a problem if I have absolutely no idea how to do anything more then make a textured model? (like, I don't know how to turn a model into a sprite, with running lights and all that)

Bomb, on Jan 9 2006, 07:22 PM, said:

**To be quite and brutally honest with you, I think you've got the wrong approach here, one that I see (and have seen before) as being destined for failure. The reason? Quite simply, the fact that you're going to all the trouble to have an "application process" with "writing samples" makes me wonder if maybe you haven't lost sight of the bigger picture here. It's a game plug-in, the work is going to suck, and the easy solution to this problem is not to find somebody else to do the work you don't want to do. The main issue being with this is that if you're unwilling to really grind it out and do the things you really have to do, your plug-in has no chance of success. It'd be nice if plug-in making was all grandiose, high flying, epic government histories and preambles and star maps, but it isn't. Those are valuable parts of the design process, but ultimately meaningless if never put to any use.

Also, I think you're a bit misguided here if you think anybody who has 'notoriety' or is 'noteworthy' will want to be your bar and planet description peon, you, an unproven plug-in maker, you've really lost grip of the reality of this particular situation. Someone who wants something to do to break into plug-ins, maybe, but don't expect Martin Turner to be banging down your door with writing samples.

I'm sorry if you take what I wrote as a personal attack on you, it isn't. I think its more of a general frustration with developers these days; everyone seems to be of a lot of talk and little action. There are some extremely talented people on this board, but no projects ever seem to come to fruition. I think maybe its about time people that were serious about making a complete scenario stop writing preambles and making game trailers and actually get down in the trenches and start working.

Again, that last bit wasn't aimed at you, Swithich, just a general statement.

_bomb

**
View Post

That is a bit like saying people like you are ######s, but I'm not speaking directly about you. Once again. I know what I'm doing, but the fact is making a total conversion with three people is a little hard. So I thought I might enlist some help. I recall that is what this board is for. And can you please read the post above. I don't need anymore lectures I just want to see if people would like to work on our plug. If not...then I'll take your path and do it all myself. The thanks I get for trying to involve other people and get a quality product out

Hamster, on Jan 9 2006, 07:43 PM, said:

Just a clarification- when you say planet pics, do you mean LunarCell-style planets? Or Terragen renders? Or both?
View Post

Both if you could.

Trah, on Jan 9 2006, 10:32 PM, said:

If you have reference pictures, I might be able to do a few (I have little time) ships. If you want to see what I can do check out my entry in the "Arrow v Striker" graphics contest.

Would it be a problem if I have absolutely no idea how to do anything more then make a textured model? (like, I don't know how to turn a model into a sprite, with running lights and all that)
View Post

Great! That is Darth Eddy's departmant, but I think we can use you.

Bomb, on Jan 9 2006, 10:22 PM, said:

**There are some extremely talented people on this board, but no projects ever seem to come to fruition.
**
View Post

Amen.

Trah, on Jan 10 2006, 01:32 AM, said:

If you have reference pictures, I might be able to do a few (I have little time) ships. If you want to see what I can do check out my entry in the "Arrow v Striker" graphics contest.

Would it be a problem if I have absolutely no idea how to do anything more then make a textured model? (like, I don't know how to turn a model into a sprite, with running lights and all that)
View Post

I haven't textured any of the ship's yet but some of the ship's I have made are posted herehttp://photobucket.c...378/Darth_Eddy/ Most of those are just preliminary ideas that I have improved upon. I might post some more of my improved ships at some point. You don't have to worry about the sprite and the running lights yet and I'm pretty sure that I can make that stuff when the time comes.

I can churn out LunarCell planets like there's no tomorrow. I have limited Terragen skills.

Give me a size, a vague description, and I'll give you a bunch of planet sprites.

Ooh, and if you need help with sound effects, I do that too. As in, making new effects instead of re-using old ones.

Darth Eddy? The scourge of the KRF has his own department...
I'm not enlisting, but just asking a question: Last I remembered, Genesis was taking a break over the summer holidays (presumably because no one wants to work over the summer holidays). Did the group slowly tear apart in the same, waterlogged piece of paper fashion most projects seem to encounter these days? Or, ah, did Darth Bob started firing you all?

In any case, it would (in my opinion) better influence other people if you mentioned a site/forum/progress log one could tune in to. Also give a general background of the project, who's in it, what you currently have, your future plans, etc. I remember you guys had a decently planned update website. Is the Kontik Research Front (originally the name of the project in the first place, no?) still your main forum? Well, I guess the question to ask here is "Is it still maintained?"

My 2 cents.

Darth Eddy, on Jan 10 2006, 05:18 PM, said:

I haven't textured any of the ship's yet but some of the ship's I have made are posted herehttp://photobucket.c...378/Darth_Eddy/ Most of those are just preliminary ideas that I have improved upon. I might post some more of my improved ships at some point. You don't have to worry about the sprite and the running lights yet and I'm pretty sure that I can make that stuff when the time comes.
View Post

PM or e-mail me with details/instructions/anything of that sort.

domu, on Jan 11 2006, 12:39 AM, said:

Darth Eddy? The scourge of the KRF has his own department...
I'm not enlisting, but just asking a question: Last I remembered, Genesis was taking a break over the summer holidays (presumably because no one wants to work over the summer holidays). Did the group slowly tear apart in the same, waterlogged piece of paper fashion most projects seem to encounter these days? Or, ah, did Darth Bob started firing you all?

In any case, it would (in my opinion) better influence other people if you mentioned a site/forum/progress log one could tune in to. Also give a general background of the project, who's in it, what you currently have, your future plans, etc. I remember you guys had a decently planned update website. Is the Kontik Research Front (originally the name of the project in the first place, no?) still your main forum? Well, I guess the question to ask here is "Is it still maintained?"

My 2 cents.
View Post

I don't think it is proper to say all that has happened. Just that...yes, for the most part the thing just slowly unravelled. School has consumed most of the people's time (including a huge part of my own) and so we are looking for new faces. Kontik Research Front was the name of the team before the whole deal with Steelix which is a whole matter in its self that I would rather not go into. The TC still has a lot of hope. We just need to get moving on it.

Bomb, on Jan 9 2006, 10:22 PM, said:

To be quite and brutally honest with you, I think you've got the wrong approach here, one that I see (and have seen before) as being destined for failure. The reason? Quite simply, the fact that you're going to all the trouble to have an "application process" with "writing samples" makes me wonder if maybe you haven't lost sight of the bigger picture here. It's a game plug-in, the work is going to suck, and the easy solution to this problem is not to find somebody else to do the work you don't want to do. The main issue being with this is that if you're unwilling to really grind it out and do the things you really have to do, your plug-in has no chance of success. It'd be nice if plug-in making was all grandiose, high flying, epic government histories and preambles and star maps, but it isn't. Those are valuable parts of the design process, but ultimately meaningless if never put to any use.

Oh I don't know, searching for new talent is not always a bad thing. Sure a lot of new people come around here with no plan no story no nothing and ask for people to help with their project, but not everybody that is searching for new talent falls into that category.

Quote

Also, I think you're a bit misguided here if you think anybody who has 'notoriety' or is 'noteworthy' will want to be your bar and planet description peon, you, an unproven plug-in maker, you've really lost grip of the reality of this particular situation. Someone who wants something to do to break into plug-ins, maybe, but don't expect Martin Turner to be banging down your door with writing samples.

In reality nearly every plugin project going right now is being made by unproven plugin makers. It would be highly unfair to judge a project on that basis. There are some wonderful projects that began in ways that would be laughed at around here today. Example.

Quote

I'm sorry if you take what I wrote as a personal attack on you, it isn't. I think its more of a general frustration with developers these days; everyone seems to be of a lot of talk and little action. There are some extremely talented people on this board, but no projects ever seem to come to fruition. I think maybe its about time people that were serious about making a complete scenario stop writing preambles and making game trailers and actually get down in the trenches and start working.

I agree somewhat, preambles and trailers are alright but sometimes it seems like there are an awful lot of them around. That said I don't get the feeling that the serious projects are spending too much time on pubic fanfare and not enough time on real work. These things are just extremely big, and the people working on them have real lives.

If somebody really wants to see all these plugins finished all they have to do is pay some salaries and the projects will get done quickly

This post has been edited by Ragashingo : 11 January 2006 - 05:50 PM