Quote

Originally posted by Zacha Pedro:
**I knew part of it, especially the package thing... (so, OSX can theoretically run off a flat (i.e. supporting only one fork per file) filesystem? Impressive, but I suppose there isn't any Classic support then). Thanks for the info.

**

Classic (IE: OS9) is a dead OS. Theres no 'offical' support for any os other than ten.

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.
(This message has been edited by The Cheat (edited 04-12-2004).)

You'd be suprised how many people still use OS9.

Entarus,

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"Don't wait for your life to happen , find something you are happy with and do it"
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Oh? There are problems between windows and the mac plugs converting?

-me has been out of the loop a long time.

As for lack of TCs, i'ld have to say its due to people A) lacking drive to see a project through, Getting what I call a REAL LIFE, and C) lack of organized group work on plugs.

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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-Albert Einstein

(This message has been edited by Skyfox (edited 06-07-2004).)

One of the things that daunts many plug developers (or at least me) is the amount of planning envolved. Say you have an idea for a cool mission and you start up ResEdit and you see all these dialog boxes and you realize that before you can make a mission you need to make ships, weapons, systems, fleets, on and on... There's really no good place to start because everything is so interconnected. I think a step by step guide of which resource to make first in a TC would be really helpful.

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"I paid for that woman and I want all the parts!" ~Horace Vandergelder, Hello, Dolly

Quote

Originally posted by Zacha Pedro:
I knew part of it, especially the package thing... (so, OSX can theoretically run off a flat (i.e. supporting only one fork per file) filesystem?

Yes, it sure can.

Quote

Impressive, but I suppose there isn't any Classic support then).

No, not on a flat file system. You can choose to format Mac OS X disks as UFS, for example.

Look, for what it's worth, while HFS+ is capable of supporting multiple forks on one file, it runs very happily with no forks. It's just a file system. I have at least one machine here where there are no resource forks whatsoever.

best always,

Dave @ ATMOS

Why HTML? Why not PDF? I find it a much better format. It retains its cross-platform compatibility, images(for use in examples) can be embedded in it, and all that jazz.

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Und kein Engel singt für mich.

Quote

Originally posted by Admiral Benden:
**Why HTML? Why not PDF? I find it a much better format. It retains its cross-platform compatibility, images(for use in examples) can be embedded in it, and all that jazz.

**

'e's got a point there.

Matrix

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"Interestingly, according to modern astronomers, space is finite. This is a very comforting thought -- particularly for people who can never remember where they have left things." - Woody Allen

(url="http://"http://htf.mondominishows.com/valentine/main.asp?seed=7375&serial;=214877")The funniest valentine I've ever gotten.(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by Admiral Benden:
**Why HTML? Why not PDF? I find it a much better format. It retains its cross-platform compatibility, images(for use in examples) can be embedded in it, and all that jazz.

**

Primarily because Acrobat is reasonable expensive. (That and Adobe Reader is a hunk of junk.)
I'm surprised that no one has brought up Rich Text Format (.rtf)
RTF's have worked cross-platform fine for me and they have the advantage of being a standard that almost every text editor can read.

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Have you ever wondered what a spanner-driver is?

Quote

Originally posted by Admiral Benden:
**Why HTML? Why not PDF? I find it a much better format. It retains its cross-platform compatibility, images(for use in examples) can be embedded in it, and all that jazz.

**

PDF is indeed nice, but not everyone has Acrobat reader, and if your plug happens to be downloaded by someone that does not have it, he can't even know he needs it. That said, it's a nice format if you wish to use the options it provides, but two things:
-First, it's not for every plug dever. PDF-making programs are usually not free (though they can be easily done on OSX as instead of priting we can export what would be printed in PDF), and not necessary for readmes, better for things like your plug manual or preambles.
-second, the readme might be the only thing the guy is able to obtain (if he unstuffs with Stuffit 8, for instance), and is likely to be read not at first, but only if the guy isn't able to get the plug working or meets a problem. Therefore, it must be available rightaway for everyone as easily as possible. It can then contain instructions on how to properly unstuff, how to read the PDFs you provided, how to properly (convert and) install the plugs, that the guy needs to have Nova registered, etc... Remember your plug can be downloaded by people for which it is the first plug, and they may be completely clueless as how use them.

I'll investigate rtf, seems nice.

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The (url="http://"https://secure.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/store/hazel.cgi?action=serve&item;=breakdown.html&BREAKDOWN;_SKUID=1480")Ambrosia Mac CD(/url) with other registrations - 5$. Paying for (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/evn/")EV Nova(/url) as it's such a great game - 30$.
The (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/evn/tshirts.html")1337 EV Nova T-shirt(/url)(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/webboard/Forum25/HTML/000003.html#ZachaPedro05-18-200409:42AM") (/url) - 22$. The (url="http://"http://w00tware.ev-nova.net/")NovaTools(/url) by wOOtWare to tinker with your Nova - FREE!
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There are things money can't buy or that are free, for everything else, there's indeed Mastercard.

Quote

Originally posted by pipeline:
**I have at least one machine here where there are no resource forks whatsoever.

best always,

Dave @ ATMOS**

How ironical when all plug deving depends on resource forks.

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The (url="http://"https://secure.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/store/hazel.cgi?action=serve&item;=breakdown.html&BREAKDOWN;_SKUID=1480")Ambrosia Mac CD(/url) with other registrations - 5$. Paying for (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/evn/")EV Nova(/url) as it's such a great game - 30$.
The (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/evn/tshirts.html")1337 EV Nova T-shirt(/url)(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/webboard/Forum25/HTML/000003.html#ZachaPedro05-18-200409:42AM") (/url) - 22$. The (url="http://"http://w00tware.ev-nova.net/")NovaTools(/url) by wOOtWare to tinker with your Nova - FREE!
The feeling you're a Nova geek - priceless.
There are things money can't buy or that are free, for everything else, there's indeed Mastercard.

Quote

Originally posted by AceBlack:
**One of the things that daunts many plug developers (or at least me) is the amount of planning envolved. Say you have an idea for a cool mission and you start up ResEdit and you see all these dialog boxes and you realize that before you can make a mission you need to make ships, weapons, systems, fleets, on and on... There's really no good place to start because everything is so interconnected. I think a step by step guide of which resource to make first in a TC would be really helpful.

**

Bomb has (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum;=Bomb|APO|s+Plug-in+Guide&number;=31#10")some info about this(/url), it's a shame it's not more advertised.

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The (url="http://"https://secure.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/store/hazel.cgi?action=serve&item;=breakdown.html&BREAKDOWN;_SKUID=1480")Ambrosia Mac CD(/url) with other registrations - 5$. Paying for (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/evn/")EV Nova(/url) as it's such a great game - 30$.
The (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/evn/tshirts.html")1337 EV Nova T-shirt(/url)(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/webboard/Forum25/HTML/000003.html#ZachaPedro05-18-200409:42AM") (/url) - 22$. The (url="http://"http://w00tware.ev-nova.net/")NovaTools(/url) by wOOtWare to tinker with your Nova - FREE!
The feeling you're a Nova geek - priceless.
There are things money can't buy or that are free, for everything else, there's indeed Mastercard.

I can't remember and don't have time to test it this morning:

Is there a rich text command for images? Or does the "text" in RTF mean no images?

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Und kein Engel singt für mich.

Okay, I just found and posted in this, (url="http://"http://support.aladdinsys.com/techsupport/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6031")Aladdin wonders why people need the cross-platform tab(/url). I think I've explained the thing well enough, add your two cents there if you don't think so.

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The (url="http://"https://secure.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/store/hazel.cgi?action=serve&item;=breakdown.html&BREAKDOWN;_SKUID=1480")Ambrosia Mac CD(/url) with other registrations - 5$. Paying for (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/evn/")EV Nova(/url) as it's such a great game - 30$.
The (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/evn/tshirts.html")1337 EV Nova T-shirt(/url)(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/webboard/Forum25/HTML/000003.html#ZachaPedro05-18-200409:42AM") (/url) - 22$. The (url="http://"http://w00tware.ev-nova.net/")NovaTools(/url) by wOOtWare to tinker with your Nova - FREE!
The feeling you're a Nova geek - priceless.
There are things money can't buy or that are free, for everything else, there's indeed Mastercard.

(This message has been edited by Zacha Pedro (edited 06-08-2004).)

Quote

Originally posted by Admiral Benden:
**I can't remember and don't have time to test it this morning:

Is there a rich text command for images? Or does the "text" in RTF mean no images?

**

Nope. RTF, as you figured out by yourself, does not in itself support images. However RTFD's do. That's basically a package that includes images; there's some more technical specs on that, but who cares, really?

Anyone have any comments on that (url="http://"http://www.evula.org/infernostudios/downloads/binandzip.zip")encoding/compression package(/url) I threw together?
~ SP

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Fear the SpacePirate,
He made a (url="http://"http://www.evula.org/infernostudios/search.html")plug-in search page(/url)...
And he'll board your ship! -mrxak
(url="http://"http://www.evula.org/infernostudios/")InfernoStudios(/url) was last updated 06 June, 2004.

(This message has been edited by SpacePirate (edited 06-08-2004).)

Quote

Originally posted by SpacePirate:
**Anyone have any comments on that encoding/compression package I threw together?
~ SP

**

Awfully sorry, I intended to react a few hours ago (just after my reaction to the topic about mission making), but Internet in our school suddenly stopped working.

I'm stuck on a PC right now, so I can't say anything yet about the operation of this stuff, but I read the readmes and such, and I have this to say:
-first, you should clearly tell, before people download it, that it is only for Mac, only on a Mac can a .bin plug be created.
-second, tell in your readme that all files that are edited by plug editors should be binned, and only those ones, as a consequence not the intro music if there's one nor movies. I think I've heard that PC Nova needs the mp3 extension for its intro music, but will that prevent MacNova from playing it? I didn't try, but if that does not prevent MacNova from running it, you should also tell to add the .mp3 extension to make one less thing to do for the PC guy.
-third, warn people never to try and zip a plug directly.

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The (url="http://"https://secure.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/store/hazel.cgi?action=serve&item;=breakdown.html&BREAKDOWN;_SKUID=1480")Ambrosia Mac CD(/url) with other registrations - 5$. Paying for (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/evn/")EV Nova(/url) as it's such a great game - 30$.
The (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/evn/tshirts.html")1337 EV Nova T-shirt(/url)(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/webboard/Forum25/HTML/000003.html#ZachaPedro05-18-200409:42AM") (/url) - 22$. The (url="http://"http://w00tware.ev-nova.net/")NovaTools(/url) by wOOtWare to tinker with your Nova - FREE!
The feeling you're a Nova geek - priceless.
There are things money can't buy or that are free, for everything else, there's indeed Mastercard.

(This message has been edited by Zacha Pedro (edited 06-09-2004).)

Quote

Originally posted by Zacha Pedro:
**Awfully sorry, I intended to react a few hours ago (just after my reaction to the topic about mission making), but Internet in our school suddenly stopped working.

I'm stuck on a PC right now, so I can't say anything yet about the operation of this stuff, but I read the readmes and such, and I have this to say:
-first, you should clearly tell, before people download it, that it is only for Mac, only on a Mac can a .bin plug be created.
-second, tell in your readme that all files that are edited by plug editors should be binned, and only those ones, as a consequence not the intro music if there's one nor movies. I think I've heard that PC Nova needs the mp3 extension for its intro music, but will that prevent MacNova from playing it? I didn't try, but if that does not prevent MacNova from running it, you should also tell to add the .mp3 extension to make one less thing to do for the PC guy.
-third, warn people never to try and zip a plug directly.

**

I took care of all of those, except the .mp3 extension. I'm still not positive if this is an issue or not. I can always, of course, add it in later. The files are the same, but I modified the readme: It is now in Rich Text format, has a bit of formatting, and a more logical layout. I also clarified some parts that were lacking, and added in the legalese that nobody reads.

If you look over it, and find it to your satisfaction, feel free to distribute it as you see fit (so long as it is within the guidelines set forth in the aforementioned fair use agreement, located in the readme of the package ;)). Basically, keep the docs with their apps.

~ SpacePirate

(edit: Duh, forgot link. Same as above, (url="http://"http://www.evula.org/infernostudios/downloads/binandzip.zip")http://www.evula.org...s/binandzip.zip(/url) .)
------------------
Fear the SpacePirate,
He made a (url="http://"http://www.evula.org/infernostudios/search.html")plug-in search page(/url)...
And he'll board your ship! -mrxak
.

(This message has been edited by SpacePirate (edited 06-09-2004).)

Space Pirate, I did not realise it at first, but you fell prey to the exact thing we're trying to prevent: it doesn't work because .zip provides no support for resource forks. And all classic and carbon apps use resource forks. only zippist works, as it is a bundle, not requiring resource forks. I think I can use a Dilbert strip to illustrate this (sorry, I don't know any place it's hosted, so you'll have only the text):

"Dogbert consults"
Dogbert: "I ran a financial projection of your company."
"I concluded that you're doomed. You spend too much money on consultants."
Boss: "But you're a consultant yourself!"
Dogbert: "Ironic, isn't it?"

Moral: .bin the three others, then only zip.

Zippost works well in OSX.

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The (url="http://"https://secure.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/store/hazel.cgi?action=serve&item;=breakdown.html&BREAKDOWN;_SKUID=1480")Ambrosia Mac CD(/url) with other registrations - 5$. Paying for (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/evn/")EV Nova(/url) as it's such a great game - 30$.
The (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/evn/tshirts.html")1337 EV Nova T-shirt(/url)(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/webboard/Forum25/HTML/000003.html#ZachaPedro05-18-200409:42AM") (/url) - 22$. The (url="http://"http://w00tware.ev-nova.net/")NovaTools(/url) by wOOtWare to tinker with your Nova - FREE!
The feeling you're a Nova geek - priceless.
There are things money can't buy or that are free, for everything else, there's indeed Mastercard.

Quote

Originally posted by AceBlack:
**One of the things that daunts many plug developers (or at least me) is the amount of planning envolved. <snip> There's really no good place to start because everything is so interconnected.
**

It depends... I'm currently building the universe (systems and spöbs, while taking into account some other factors like gövts etc.). After that, I'll start working on the ships and outfits/weapons, of which I have a (not yet too detailed) list... Then I'll go back to the universe and implement techlevels etc... OK, there is indeed a lot of planning involved, but it's doable, and setting the stage seems like the most logical place to start when building a TC.

(by the way - to those who thought the Hyperion plug had died again: you're wrong. To those who think it'll never get finished during their lifetime: uhh... well, let's just say you might turn out to be right. We'll just have to see )

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"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere, the ceremony of innocence is drowned..."
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Quote

Originally posted by Skyfox:
**As for lack of TCs, i'ld have to say its due to people A) lacking drive to see a project through, Getting what I call a REAL LIFE, and C) lack of organized group work on plugs.

**

Only your Point A is valid. I have B which doesn't interfere with A, and I've never needed C. But A is the only thing keeping me going.

That and lots of ego strokes.

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Bunnies -- bunnies -- it must be bunnies... or maybe midgets

Some more comments about the .bin.zip package: the philosophy would be to have a distibution that works flawlessly and easily for just about everyone, and .bin.zip is just the heart of that. We determined here that RTF and HTML are reliable, cross-platform, can be opened by just about everyone, and can be made by just about everyone, therefore you should also give instructions to have the readme (and have the distribution have a readme at all!) in one of these formats (for RTF, tell that TextEdit and WordPad can save in this format, for HTML give my instructions); maybe adding a PDF on top of the readme if the dever wants to have images in his manual, but still have the readme, especially to tell the guy he needs Acrobat Reader (in our case). It should also be stated that the readme should not assume the guy is using one platform or another, and give instructions for plug install for both platforms. The distribution should not only be cross-platform, but assume it's the first plug the guy is downloading (experienced plug users know that they already know most of what the readme tells).

When this package is complete and tested, you, Space Pirate, should email Andrew or TomWoozle and tell them to modify the (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/evn/addons.html")upload dialog(/url) (I can't actually link to there, just click "submit a file") to tell to upload their plugs in .bin.zip, with instructions and everything necessary included in (url="http://"http://www.evula.org/infernostudios/downloads/binandzip.zip")this package(/url).

By the way, I've tested, and there's no way MacNova accepts the intro music with the .mp3 extension, PC people will have to add it themselves (and that too should be told in the readme, so your instructions should tell to tell it if ever there's an alternate intro music).

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The (url="http://"https://secure.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/store/hazel.cgi?action=serve&item;=breakdown.html&BREAKDOWN;_SKUID=1480")Ambrosia Mac CD(/url) with other registrations - 5$. Paying for (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/evn/")EV Nova(/url) as it's such a great game - 30$.
The (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/evn/tshirts.html")1337 EV Nova T-shirt(/url)(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/webboard/Forum25/HTML/000003.html#ZachaPedro05-18-200409:42AM") (/url) - 22$. The (url="http://"http://w00tware.ev-nova.net/")NovaTools(/url) by wOOtWare to tinker with your Nova - FREE!
The feeling you're a Nova geek - priceless.
There are things money can't buy or that are free, for everything else, there's indeed Mastercard.

(This message has been edited by Zacha Pedro (edited 06-14-2004).)