where is this info?

What bits does the Nova scenario use in the Contribute/Require fields? Is there somewhere that this data can be found? It isn't in the EV bible...

First of all, take a good look at the "All the important links you'll ever need" topic in the EVDC. Memorise the links you'll find there.

If you don't find the answer to a question in that topic, use the "Search" feature.

If you still don't find the answer, try again, using different terms.

Once again, try again with different terms if you still can't find it.

Ask here only once you have done all the steps described above

(sorry if it seems offensive, but "old devs", people who have been here for a while, don't take too kindly to people who post three topics in a row, especially if two out of three are questions to which the answers are easy to find)

Yeah, yeah. I guess I should have worded my question differently. In the default Nova scenario, what do EACH of the USED BITS actually represent? I know that 16 of the 64 are used, but what are each of those 16 bits used to do? I see them on the Contribute/Require fields of certain ships and I wanted to know WHY they used that bit and what impact it has.

The only place this info can be found is in the Nova Data resource files.
Here's a brief summary of Contribute-Require Flag bit (CRF) usage in the default Nova scenario.

The overview is that CRF-0 uses 0x000003FF and CRF-1 uses 0xC0000071
The breakout is:
CRF-0 0x00000001is set by Heavy Weapons License and tested for by Federation heavy weapons outfits
CRF-0 0x00000002 is set by Missile Weapons License and tested for by Federation missile weapon outfits
CRF-0 0x00000004 is set by Fighter Bay License and tested for by Federation fighter bay and fighter outfits
CRF-0 0x00000008 is set by Protective Technologies License and tested for by Federation shield and armor outfits
CRF-0 0x00000010 is set by several licenses and ranks but never tested by anything
CRF-0 0x00000020 is set by several licenses and ranks but never tested by anything
CRF-0 0x00000040 is set by Capital Ships License and tested for by Federation capital ships
CRF-0 0x00000080 is set by Capital Warships License and tested for by Federation capital warships
CRF-0 0x00000100 is set by Exotics Licenses(3), Federation Ambassador rank, and Director of BII rank and tested by two weapon outfits
(note1: the Exotics Licenses(3), Federation Ambassador rank, and Director of BII rank set the 9 bits CRF-0 0x000001FF)
(note2: the Federation Commander rank sets the 6 bits CRF-0 0x0000007B)
CRF-0 0x00000200 is set by several weapon outfits but never tested by anything
CRF-1 0x00000001 is set by all all physical (i.e. non-telekinetic) ships and tested by virtually all physical outfits
CRF-1 0x00000010 is set by all Leviathan ships and tested by Sigma bulk cargo missions
CRF-1 0x00000020 is set by all Pegasus ships and tested by Sigma bulk cargo missions
CRF-1 0x00000040 is set by all StarLiner ships and tested by Sigma charter flight missions
CRF-1 0x40000000 is set by a subset of civilian Valkyrie ships and tested by Valkyrie ship upgrade outfits
CRF-1 0x80000000 is set by a subset of civilian Starbridge ships and tested by Starbridge ship upgrade outfits

As an aside, this is all easier to perceive when the Nova resources involved are converted to a spreadsheet format.
Why did the ATMOSians choose these particular bits? I haven't a clue. Probably just a series of arbitrary choices shaded with common sense.

(edit) oops, forgot the Fed Cmdr rank (/edit)

This post has been edited by Arturo : 10 May 2005 - 07:27 PM

Thank you, sir! Just what I was after.

Good thing - it matches my observations on these bits and my calculations on which ones are used. I'll try to put them in my Contribute/Require guide once I put it in Bomb's plug-in guide.

For those of you who wondered where I've been, it's simple: spring break. To places with no or very little Internet access at all. Other than learning PowerPC assembly, I've not done much during this time. Work is being resumed on my stuff at Bomb's plug-in guide.

Quote

(sorry if it seems offensive, but "old devs", people who have been here for a while, don't take too kindly to people who post three topics in a row, especially if two out of three are questions to which the answers are easy to find)

Why should it seem offensive for an "old dev" to flame a newb for asking a question in a forum designed for that purpose?

This is why I've waited so long to join this forum. It is NOT , as was intended, for people to come and ask questions (and thereby gain knowledge) so much as a chance for people to belittle others for doing so. I am a graphical designer by trade. I have created what I believe to be some awesome ships ( including Andromeda Ascendant) for the Nova engine, using some of the most cutting edge software available. I was one of the graphical designers involved in making "Matrix; Revolutions". However, according to my # of posts, I would be classified as a "newb".

I've created several plugs which I believe people would find fun and entertaining. However, I have not submitted a single one for posting on the add-ons page. God forbid I get accused of stealing someone's idea. I WILL NOT submit a plug until I feel confident that it will be evaluated on it's merits, by a slightly less hostile group of individuals than I have seen in this forum to date.

I don't wish to sound ungrateful. The Ambrosia team have created a great game engine, as well as a plug development system that balances power and ease-of-use nicely. I approve of this forum, as it was intended. However, seeing it used by "old devs" to slam those of us who are (ahem) "new" to grapical and plug design makes me believe that this is not the venue that it could be.

While I'm sure that the answer to this question could be found by spending hours researching the old posts, I, for one, am grateful to Arturo for his post. I found it quite informative and of much greater use than a primer in research techniques.

I read this forum daily (usually), and hope the day arrives when I can share my work in a supportive and mature environment.

Flyboy, on May 11 2005, 09:47 PM, said:

Why should it seem offensive for an "old dev" to flame a newb for asking a question in a forum designed for that purpose?
View Post

A few months ago, the "All the important links you'll ever need" was created after many people on the EVDC decided something of the like was needed. The reason behind the creation of this topic was to centralise all the most basic (and some advanced) knowledge because developers wanted the EVDC to become more of a discussion place (where one can do very constructive developments) than one where people with no plug-in experience come ask all their beginner's questions, questions that filled more than half the EVDC at times. Many EVDC members sadly think the Nova board should be the place for "n00b questions".

Since the creation of this topic, such others have been created, among others on the Nova board. Once again, the idea is to stop hearing the same questions over and over again. Because that's what caused massive numbers to leave the Nova board entirely, and less big flocks to leave the EVDC. If nothing happens but "EV 3D?" or "I'm a newb and need help" topics, you get sick of it real fast.

The EVDC is about people developing, not just stating "do this, do that". If you want someone to be able to develop correctly, give him/her a firm basis (the "All the important links you'll ever need", and then he/she can experiment. Use the Nova Data files to learn. Read Zacha Pedro's guides to know how to use this program or that one. But if a developer just comes to get fed information, then that developer will never progress much (I'm not talking about anyone in particular). On top of it, that person will be considered more of a parasite than someone useful to the community (as in someone who helps, who develops something great, who finds work-arounds, or anything else).

I'm not an "old dev" (I haven't even been present on the forum for a year, though my plug-in making is older than that), but there are a few such people, and I have already seen enough "newbie questions" to be a little irritated when people do post a row of them.

Give a man a fish, he will eat for one day. Teach him to fish, he will eat all his life.

Flyboy, on May 11 2005, 09:47 PM, said:

While I'm sure that the answer to this question could be found by spending hours researching the old posts, I, for one, am grateful to Arturo for his post. I found it quite informative and of much greater use than a primer in research techniques.
View Post

I have realised (after seeing how badly I answered purple1's question, and I apologise for that) that that precise information can indeed not be found directly, but in Zacha Pedro's Contribute/Require/Scanmask Guide (which is listed in the "all the important links you'll ever need" topic), you get a very good introduction to them, and you can find which ones are used (but not for what exactly). Afterwards, it's up to you to search, to spread out your wings and fly on your own.

and yet....... (This quote is taken verbatum from the EV Nova forum)

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U.F.S. Indigestion May 2 2005, 11:03 AM
Post #8

Thank you pikeman for your help. now returning to the topic, where can I learn how to create plugs for escape velocity nova? a website or walkthrough would be fine. thank you for any further replies or help.

and, two posts later, comes the response:

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Fnoigy May 2 2005, 11:18 AM
Post #10

Junior Member

Group: Members
Posts: 938
Joined: 21-October 03
Member No.: 11,134

That's a question for the EV Developer's Corner.

Hmmm. Seems the people over at the "other forum" get a little irritated at the "newbie questions" too.

therefor, my question to you sir is this: Where should a newbie ask such questions? I would suggest an entirely new forum specifically for them, but alas, that's been tried............

Quote

Give a man a fish, he will eat for one day. Teach him to fish, he will eat all his life.

Get everyone in the village to tell him to find another stream to fish in, and he will STARVE.

Flyboy, on May 12 2005, 09:46 AM, said:

therefor, my question to you sir is this: Where should a newbie ask such questions? I would suggest an entirely new forum specifically for them, but alas, that's been tried............
View Post

That's the whole point of pinned topics. People are ideally meant to read them before posting, especially if they are titled "All the Important Links You'll Ever Need" or "Member-Run FAQ"

Of course, we could get mrxak or another moderator to make a "EVDC Rules - Read before posting" topic in which we would put "Read the pinned topics!", but then we'd have 6 pinned topics. That's even more than the EVN board!

(oh, and by the way, I hang around the "other forum" just as much and maybe even more, just in case the wrong impression comes out (that I despise it, ))

I understand your point of view Pace, I truly do. I also understand your irritability at seemingly simple and redundant questions. (try explaining a complex special effect to an asst. director who doesn't understand the concept.)

My misgivings are, and remain, this: Purple1 didn't come here looking for a handout. He(she?) wasn't asking a developer to write a plug for him (give him a fish). He came seeking knowledge on how to write his own plug (teach him to fish). We have all been there at one point or another.

We have an opportunity to impart some of our wisdom and experience to those striving to walk the same path, thereby sharing our creativity and passion for the art. If those whom we looked to for guidance were willing to help us, should we not be willing to help those who follow? How sad that, in the role of teacher, our best response has become "There are books on the subject. Go look it up."

I'm incited to break my cover and give you ...

An Alien's Perspective:
Humans are the embodiment of contradiction, they love to try to solve problems and answer questions, even when they do not know the solution or answer.
Of course I do not have that particular attribute since I am an alien, but I digress (and in public too).
Is not the purpose of this forum a sharing of knowledge and wisdom?
Knowledge exists in many forms; books, bibles, stickies, threads, raw data, etcetera, etcetera.
Wisdom, on the other hand, can only be achieved through direct experience.
I have consumed multitudinous gigananoseconds acquiring knowledge of the Novaverse through perusal of megawads of raw data.
Based on my experience, it is clear to me that improvement of the developer species can best be served by sharing any and all accumulated knowledge.
In this partiicular instantiation the specific information that was queried did not exist except as raw data.
Having already summarized that subset of data for my own purpose (ShipyardUpgrades106), I saw it as my responsibility to share my acquired knowledge in order to engender interest and foster developmentationitis.
It is my perspective that those that know should share.
Those that don't know should STFU (unless of course they are, as you humans so quaintly express it, "kicking around ideas").
But that is just me, and I am only an alien (specie Cognoscerio).

Yes, Flyboy, I agree with what you've said.
I love teaching, giving advice, , in all kinds of matters (though I don't think I would want to be a teacher, even if today again I was explaining Roman Law to a friend). I've made a point of always trying to help. But now that another kind of help has been pre-arranged, I feel it might be good to give it a purpose.

I have to say that if I had been the first to answer purple1's very first question, I would have both given him the answer and shown him the place to find such answers in the future, but since he had already asked another beforehand, I was hoping someone had already shown that place to him. Reading the first answer he got, I see purple1 did not yet know about the pinned topics.

So what I would learn from this (and I think it is true to some extent to all developers on this forum) is that one should not only feed information when it is asked for, but also teach the person asking where to find such information in the future.

Flyboy, thank you for pointing out the attack I was making, and thanks for showing your point of view.
May this be a lesson to us all.

I was a little upset about your comment, but I can be forgiving. I frequent the GameFAQs board where utter n00bs post stupid questions when the answers are usually "www.google.com". Some times the stuff they ask is stupid. Like, "how much does this game cost?" We all point to www.bestbuy.com or www.ebgames.com or whatever. I have to deal with dumb questions too, so I only ask a question if I believe it is difficult to find (also my bad, my original question was poorly worded - I wasn't specific enough) or much easier to explain in a conversation. ZP's contribute/require field guide did not have what I was looking for, so I figured somebody else might know. Turns out that the material that was provided should be added to a guide somewhere for reference. After all, that is why the Nova Reference Plus spreadsheet was created, right? To prevent people from manually searching the Nova Files.

Just my two cents. I'm just glad that we aren't killing each other and I can get whatever small tidbits I need to make a silly useless plug. I'm not that interested in control bits or any of this technical junk.