Well, I recently took a CAD graphics class, and found the 3D part to be very enjoyable. I want to look into getting a 3D drawing application. I downloaded the demo of C4D, and enjoyed it, but it is expensive. After fiddling around, I was able to produce (url="http://"http://zoxler.net/pics/table3d.jpg")this.(/url) I know it is incredibly simple, but, I have only had this demo for about 3 hours. Basically, I am wondering what people use to make all those awesome images on the EV image gallery, and what is the best program for someone with virtually no experience? Cost is a bit of an issue, but I think I can convince my parents to help me pay, up to a point. Thanks in advance.

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(url="http://"http://zoxler.net")Zoxler.net(/url)
We in the U.S. require a new shrubbery.

I'm just going to wait for what_is_the_matrix to post his generic post on this one I personally use Strata 3D for basic modeling, texturing and rendering and Wings 3D (free) for the most of my modeling. Textures I make in Photoshop and Fireworks.

Just so this post is not completely useless its worth noting that if you are eligible, you can get some great deals on these programs through student discounts...

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'It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames'
- Harry Hill

Quote

Originally posted by Jules:
**I'm just going to wait for what_is_the_matrix to post his generic post on this one:p I personally use Strata 3D for basic modeling, texturing and rendering and Wings 3D (free) for the most of my modeling. Textures I make in Photoshop and Fireworks.

Just so this post is not completely useless its worth noting that if you are eligible, you can get some great deals on these programs through student discounts...

**

I did do a search, but I didn't find anything quickly that I felt answered my question.

For the student discount, do you know if that is only for university students? I am still in High School. Also my dad is a professor at a university, so could the discounts be for education as well?

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(url="http://"http://zoxler.net")Zoxler.net(/url)
We in the U.S. require a new shrubbery.

(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/ubb/search.cgi")http://www.ambrosias.../ubb/search.cgi(/url)

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.
(This message has been edited by The Cheat (edited 04-12-2004).)

Quote

Originally posted by The Cheat:
**http://www.ambrosias.../ubb/search.cgi

**

Take a hint from the nova board and don't just post a search link.

Also take the time to read my post:

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Originally posted by Trah:
I did do a search, but I didn't find anything quickly that I felt answered my question.(/B)

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(url="http://"http://zoxler.net")Zoxler.net(/url)
We in the U.S. require a new shrubbery.

Quote

Originally posted by Jules:
**I'm just going to wait for what_is_the_matrix to post his generic post on this one:p
**

Well okay...

Quote

POV-Ray (free), Wings 3D (free), Blender (free), Alias Maya 5.0 Personal Learning Edition (free - not full featured w/ watermarks), Softimage XSI Experience - PC and Linux only ($19.95 - not full featured w/ less obtrusive watermarks than PLE), Eovia Carrara Studio 3 ($399), Maxon Cinema 4D 8.5 ($595), Strata 3DPro 3.9 ($695), Eovia Amapi 7 Pro ($799), Rhinoceros 3.0 - PC only I think ($895), Softimage 3D 4.0 - PC and Linux (and SGI, but not many people have these) only ($1495), Newtek Lightwave 3D 8.0 ($1595), Softimage XSI - PC, Linux, and SGI only (no price quoted, but probably more expensive than Lightwave), Alias Maya Complete 6.0 ($1999), Discreet 3D Studio Max 6 - PC only ($3145), Alias Maya Unlimited 6.0 ($6999)

That's about all I can think of for right now. Note that Alias Maya 5.0 Personal Learning Edition and Softimage XSI Experience are watered down (or in many cases, crippled) versions of the full packages. If you already have Maya 4.5 or Maya 5, upgrades to 6.0 Unlimited or Complete are significantly less expensive. Also, be aware that the most expensive program is not necessarily the best program, especially if it cannot do the job that you specifically bought it for. On the image gallery, Wings 3D, Strata, Infini-D (not for PC, but is a precursor to Carrara), Cinema 4D, Strata 3D, and Lightwave are the most popular programs. Lightwave is the program that ATMOS used to make EV Nova, and is my personal favorite program both as a modeler and as a still renderer. What is a renderer, you ask? After you finish making your 3D model, the only way you can output it as an image is through a process called rendering. A good renderer can with the right ingredients make photorealistic images.. Wings 3D, while gaining popularity, does not come bundled with a renderer and requires another program (POV-Ray and Blender are two preferred renderers) to render final images.

There you go... Generally speaking, as long as you can show proof that you are enrolled in the current quarter or semester at your school, then you will be eligible for student discounts. Try (url="http://"http://www.journeyed.com")www.journeyed.com(/url) for programs like Maya, Max, Lightwave, Soft, Strata, and Cinema.

Matrix

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"Interestingly, according to modern astronomers, space is finite. This is a very comforting thought -- particularly for people who can never remember where they have left things." - Woody Allen

(url="http://"http://htf.mondominishows.com/valentine/main.asp?seed=7375&serial;=214877")The funniest valentine I've ever gotten.(/url)

Quote

Originally posted by what_is_the_matrix:
**
<snip>
**

wow... so many options...

Anyone know if there is a demo for Lightwave? I couldn't find one on the website. I don't want to buy a $800 program to find it is too complicated for me.

So there is no clear-cut program for beginners? The thing I want to do is design ships for the Nova image gallery.

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(url="http://"http://zoxler.net")Zoxler.net(/url)
We in the U.S. require a new shrubbery.

I use C4d...as do some others. It´s easy to learn, and very powerful. Though it´s not quite up to par with lightwave in modeling. I think teh animation part is better. And it´s catching up on the plugin side too.

Lightwave is difficult to learn...probably not worth the prize or the time it takes to learn it. Especially if you just want to make images for the gallery.

If i were you I would try to get Strata. Unless you have lots of money lying around.

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And then there were silence.................

I would suggest a combo of (url="http://"http://www.wings3d.com")Wings(/url) and (url="http://"http://www.strata3d.com")Strata(/url) because together theyre almost as powerful as LightWave, Use wings for modeling and Strata for texturing and rendering.

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(url="http://"http://www.eternallightstudios.com")Eternal Light Studios(/url) | (url="http://"http://thecheatslair.cjb.net")The Cheats Lair OF DEATH!!(/url) | (url="http://"http://blog.evula.net/TheCheat/")Ma Blog (Hosted by EVula(/url)
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(This message has been edited by The Cheat (edited 04-12-2004).)

Quote

Originally posted by The Cheat:
**
I would suggest a combo of Wings and Strata because together theyre almost as powerful as LightWave, Use wings for modeling and Strata for texturing and rendering.**

For me at least its a good combination, but as with everything its up to everyone's individual styles and preferences. I've produced some fairly reasonable results with the combination.

Here are some examples of what I've managed. All of the following were done for the most part in free programs. The only things that weren't were the textures, but Im sure that they could be done in free programs also.

(url="http://"http://www.macfire.net/fe/starcraft-2.jpg")Unfinished model of the Starcraft Wraith(/url)
(url="http://"http://www.macfire.net/fe/views.jpg")Another unfinished model - Mars Frigate for the upcoming TC: Final Eclipse(/url)
(url="http://"http://evula.org/ewan/asw_pics/freightc_textured.jpg")Yet another unfinished model - remod of the EVO Freight Courier(/url)

Most of those models are finished/almost finished now but I don't have pics online.

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'It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames'
- Harry Hill

(This message has been edited by Jules (edited 06-05-2004).)

Being a C4D-user, I can tell you that this table is not even a shadow of what you can create in C4D if you happen to learn it. However, I understand that it is expensive.
Cheetah is a C4D-based 3D-application for MacOS X. In case you're operating this system, go to the link below to find out more. In case you don't, ignore this post.
(url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/mwengenm/Cheetah3D/index.html")http://homepage.mac....ah3D/index.html(/url)

Fixed my link. Sorry, don't know why this happened. I used UBB-code, but for some reason, there was this “a href” stuff. I guess that's HTML, but whatever it is, I didn't write it there.

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“He who knows does not speak! He who speaks does not know!”
Believe me, when you hear this phrase often enough and as an answer to just about every question you ask, you'll all but kill the guy who said this.
(url="http://"http://starlightdev.freewebpage.org")STARLIGHT DEVELOPMENT(/url)

(This message has been edited by Arion (edited 06-08-2004).)

(This message has been edited by Arion (edited 06-08-2004).)

Quote

Originally posted by Arion:
**Being a C4D-user, I can tell you that this table is not even a shadow of what you can create in C4D if you happen to learn it. However, I understand that it is expensive.
Cheetah is a C4D-based 3D-application for MacOS X. In case you're operating this system, go to the link below to find out more. In case you don't, ignore this post.
<A HREF="http://homepage.mac.com/mwengenm/Cheetah3D/index.html" TARGET=_blank>http://homepage.mac.com/mwengenm/Cheetah3D/index.html(/URL)</A>

Oh, and Jules, your link to the Freight Courier leads to the Wraith.**

Fixed - you need to fix yours now

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'It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames'
- Harry Hill

How did he manage to screw up his link to such a point that it does not look like anyting (but works) when we reply to it?

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The (url="http://"https://secure.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/store/hazel.cgi?action=serve&item;=breakdown.html&BREAKDOWN;_SKUID=1480")Ambrosia Mac CD(/url) with other registrations - 5$. Paying for (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/evn/")EV Nova(/url) as it's such a great game - 30$.
The (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/evn/tshirts.html")1337 EV Nova T-shirt(/url)(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/webboard/Forum25/HTML/000003.html#ZachaPedro05-18-200409:42AM") (/url) - 22$. The (url="http://"http://w00tware.ev-nova.net/")NovaTools(/url) by wOOtWare to tinker with your Nova - FREE!
The feeling you're a Nova geek - priceless.
There are things money can't buy or that are free, for everything else, there's indeed Mastercard.

Quote

Originally posted by Zacha Pedro:
How did he manage to screw up his link to such a point that it does not look like anyting (but works) when we reply to it?

Don't know... Looks like he tried to incorporate HTML into it (or the board system did) and something buggered up. Should be easy to fix though

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'It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames'
- Harry Hill

there used to be demos of Lightwave. I don't know if you can still find them. You download the whole program, but it needs a "dongle" to work in regular mode - otherwise it just runs in demo mode.

no offense to people, but Wings and Strata together don't equal Lightwave or Maya. It's true that you can produce very, very good stuff using Wings and Strata, and very crappy stuff in Lightwave - that depends on skill level. But eventually (in my opinion) it's nice to have more - especially in the texture/render/animation area.

But since you're just starting, I would definetly suggest starting out with the Wings/Strata combo. I learned in Strata, and it's a great way to get into 3D, and you can certainly do high quality work in it. I wouldn't start with Lightwave, it has a very steep learning curve if you haven't done other 3D before.

Most of these programs are a lot cheaper at academic pricing.

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(url="http://"http://www.adventuredog.net")Adventure Dog(/url): Everyone's favorite little black and white dog.
(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/webboard/Forum9/HTML/005135.html#")Walkthroughs for 3D space scenes and objects(/url) - please feel free to add your own methods to the thread.

Quote

Originally posted by sparky:
no offense to people, but Wings and Strata together don't equal Lightwave or Maya. It's true that you can produce very, very good stuff using Wings and Strata, and very crappy stuff in Lightwave - that depends on skill level. But eventually (in my opinion) it's nice to have more - especially in the texture/render/animation area.

I'm quite aware of that, hence my ongoing battle trying to learn Lightwave Strata of old definitely couldn't match lightwave, but I've been looking at the stuff produced by the new edition (CX) which looks really amazing compared to the old ones. Looking at a few of the Strata gods ((url="http://"http://www.stratacafe.com/profiles/profile_detail.asp?profileID=1249")Chris Tyler(/url), (url="http://"http://www.stratacafe.com/profiles/profile_detail.asp?profileID=5153")Chris Szetela(/url), (url="http://"http://www.stratacafe.com/profiles/profile_detail.asp?profileID=174")Steven Richards(/url), et al) on the stratacafe gallery really shows off the new edition's potential. I think that CX could easily rival, if not surpass, lightwave in many respects. I particularly like (url="http://"http://www.stratacafe.com/image.asp?imageID=6231&artistimages;=1&killnext;=0")this image(/url) by Chris Tyler.

Obviously Wings 3D and a 5 year old implementation of a (very) feature reduced version of Strata aren't going to match up to lightwave by any stretch of the imagination, but for nothing, its as good as you're going to get. I'm sure if you were comparing Stuff made in Wings and Strata CX to Lightwave made by people of the same standard in each program, the difference would be unnoticeable.

Still, I want to move over to lightwave as it has a more industry standard implementation for textures, etc. I'm still a huge fan of Strata however. You wouldn't know of any good tutorials on the web would you Sparky?

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'It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames'
- Harry Hill

Quote

Originally posted by Jules:
**Still, I want to move over to lightwave as it has a more industry standard implementation for textures, etc. I'm still a huge fan of Strata however. You wouldn't know of any good tutorials on the web would you Sparky?

**

Well I'm not sparky, but...
(url="http://"http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/tutorials/")http://www.newtek.co...wave/tutorials/(/url)
(url="http://"http://members.shaw.ca/lightwavetutorials/Main_Menu.htm")http://members.shaw....s/Main_Menu.htm(/url)

Matrix

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"Interestingly, according to modern astronomers, space is finite. This is a very comforting thought -- particularly for people who can never remember where they have left things." - Woody Allen

(url="http://"http://htf.mondominishows.com/valentine/main.asp?seed=7375&serial;=214877")The funniest valentine I've ever gotten.(/url)

(This message has been edited by what_is_the_matrix (edited 06-05-2004).)

I'm actually using a combination of Maya and LightWave these days.

Dave @ ATMOS

Quote

Originally posted by pipeline:
**I'm actually using a combination of Maya and LightWave these days.

Dave @ ATMOS**

Really? I've been trying to figure out how I'd use the two in concert as of late - I'm considering building characters in Lightwave and transferring to Maya for animation and rendering w/ mentalRay. I'm curious what you're doing with them.

Matrix

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"Interestingly, according to modern astronomers, space is finite. This is a very comforting thought -- particularly for people who can never remember where they have left things." - Woody Allen

(url="http://"http://htf.mondominishows.com/valentine/main.asp?seed=7375&serial;=214877")The funniest valentine I've ever gotten.(/url)

Thanks for all the replies.

I think I'm going to go for C4D. I like the demo, and since people here use it, and it has good reviews on the net, I think it is best for me. I was really looking for people to say either, "heh no one uses C4D, only an idiot would buy it" or "no no, that is a terrible program for beginners, program X would be far better." Money isn't that much of an issue, as my dad can get education discount

Just a side note, is the name C4D just supposed to be an shortening of Cinema 4D, or is it also supposed to be "1337" for Cad?

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(url="http://"http://zoxler.net")Zoxler.net(/url)
We in the U.S. require a new shrubbery.