Work on my Firefly TC is still progressing, although it has slowed down a bit. At present, I've got 116 stellar objects, and the same number of systems (when there's more than one spob in a system, I use the extra syst ID for an empty system).

What are your feelings about what would make a good number of systs for a TC? I'm not looking to make this huge, just big enough to serve as an arena for the story.

I don't think its possible I'll go over 150 systems, but I might make it to 130 or so.

What would you consider the minimum number of systs to make a TC worth playing?

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(joking)At least two. Then two governments can fight each other and actually own their own seperate systems, declare war, and etc. (/joking)

It really depends on what sort of feel you are going for, and how ambitious you are. I can imagine a TC that is some sort of gladiator/arena thing and only has ~20 systems. You should have enough systems for your storyline, and then some extras to give the necessary ambience needed, then extra easter egg systems, like ones that sell bottled water or toothbrushes, or the star in Frozen Heart (or was it Femme Fatale?).

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"The difference between theory and reality is often quite great..."

Yeah, it really depends on what you want. I always like impossibly large maps, but never get around to finishing them. Especially since I have yet to find a Nova map editor I like. I want to make one now that would be at least a thousand, but I most likely won't start.
(edit: blasted smilie thingie.... /edit)
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I am ME hear me roar!
Meeoowwwww

(This message ha... no it wasn't......)

(This message has been edited by Meaker VI (edited 03-24-2004).)

The most obvios thing to do is to have at least as many systems as the game you making the plugin for. Although, it is possible to have lots fewer, (miners for instance.) I'm about half way through a small TC that had five systems fewer than EVC, which is the game it is for. My other TC is for Override and will have a universe that is larget than the original. Generaly the size of the universe depends on how many governments you have, how large those governments are, how much unexplored space you have. Also, a large universe is more likely to appeal to your player.

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Cmon people, the (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number;=20&SUBMIT;=Go")Chronicles(/url) are worth looking at.

Quote

Originally posted by Lindley:
**What are your feelings about what would make a good number of systs for a TC? I'm not looking to make this huge, just big enough to serve as an arena for the story.

I don't think its possible I'll go over 150 systems, but I might make it to 130 or so.

What would you consider the minimum number of systs to make a TC worth playing?

**

As people have said, it really does depend on the TC and story. My TC is currently looking to be around 450 systems, maybe more, but then it's going to have quite a large story. I wouldn't decide how good a TC is on the amount of systems, it would have to be how playable it is.

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Just once, I'd like to go to a party without being set on fire.

(This message has been edited by Deathmatch (edited 03-24-2004).)

Quote

Originally posted by Meaker VI:
Yeah, it really depends on what you want. I always like impossibly large maps, but never get around to finishing them. Especially since I have yet to find a Nova map editor I like. I want to make one now that would be at least a thousand, but I most likely won't start.:p
(edit: blasted smilie thingie.... /edit)

Having over a thousand's not all that great. Trust me -- I know whereof I speak (razzum fragga spöb dëscs...)

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Quote

Originally posted by Lindley:
**Work on my Firefly TC is still progressing, although it has slowed down a bit. At present, I've got 116 stellar objects, and the same number of systems (when there's more than one spob in a system, I use the extra syst ID for an empty system).

What are your feelings about what would make a good number of systs for a TC? I'm not looking to make this huge, just big enough to serve as an arena for the story.

I don't think its possible I'll go over 150 systems, but I might make it to 130 or so.

What would you consider the minimum number of systs to make a TC worth playing?

**

**I don't think there should be any minimum number- in the case of a TC the number of systems is actually fairly arbitrary; one scenario could boast 1,200 systems filled with worlds that are all clones of one another; i.e "a cold and desolate world"- whereas a well constructed scenario with less than a hundred systems could be infinitely more rich and detailed. Personally, I'd prefer the second, only because putting real depth (and change, too) into the scenario is so much more important than jumping from useless planet to useless planet.

_bomb

**

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Quote

Originally posted by Bomb:
(b)I don't think there should be any minimum number- in the case of a TC the number of systems is actually fairly arbitrary; one scenario could boast 1,200 systems filled with worlds that are all clones of one another; i.e "a cold and desolate world"

Course UT's SFA TC (woo hoo! three acronyms!) has 1000+ spobs and they're not all copies of each other. I'd hate to be in his shoes...

Matrix

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"Interestingly, according to modern astronomers, space is finite. This is a very comforting thought -- particularly for people who can never remember where they have left things." - Woody Allen

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Not less than one, at least to begin with - later on in the game you can reduce the number using visbits.

Seriously, I'm pretty sure that one day someone really clever is going to come up with a TC which only has one system and no Spobs.

There was a very good episode of Voyager where the ship is trapped inside a nebula or area of space which has no planets and which it is (almost) impossible to escape from. Other ships trapped there have been raiding each other for stuff to live off and fight with, but Janeway hatches a plot to form a collaborative which enables them to escape.

Back in the glory days of EV, someone came up with the idea of a plugin (the term 'TC' had not been coined) which began with just Earth's system and then expanded as galactic travel was discovered. I would personally love to play a TC that grew in that way.

There was a flood of enormous game expanders for EV which added hundreds of systems. I have to say I never really got on with them — I didn't want to explore loads of fairly similar systems, I wanted to find one system that really captivated me.

Ultimately for Nova you have to make as many systems as there are in Nova, otherwise Nova systems will start appearing randomly in your plugin. Most people seem to opt to make placeholder or null systems which then don't appear in the game.

Emotionally, I find the proportion and distribution of the systems makes an enormous difference to a plugin's ambience. Nova is quite sparse in some parts, and you spend a lot of time exploring empty systems or systems where you aren't (initially) allowed to land. EV was much more generous in this respect — there weren't any really long chains of uninhabited systems except on the rim. EVO was between the two — in places you could go a long way and find nothing, or at least nothing you were allowed to land in. I'm pretty certain that with the proper forethought you could layer a plugin into different ambiences where you made the player feel lonely, cosy, warm, cold, under threat, safe, hurried or languid just by sorting out the proportions.

Re your original question — how long is a piece of string? Most plugins I've ever played really only had 25 interesting systems plus lots of filler worlds. How many worlds can you make which are distinctive from each other? If you can keep making the magic happen for yourself, then there's no reason to stop creating a new world every session you write, as a way of preparing yourself for mission writing.

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The thing is, I'm taking submissions from other Firefly fans for worlds. I rewrite most of them to make the tone fit with the rest, but I usually keep the ideas.

For myself, I'm not terribly good at coming up with planet descs. I can do some, but I can feel them all starting to become to uniform, which is why I'm winding down on this stage. Right now, I'm just trying to fill in the gaps in the galaxy map.

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Quote

Originally posted by Martin Turner:
**Seriously, I'm pretty sure that one day someone really clever is going to come up with a TC which only has one system and no Spobs.
**

That would be tricky... you'd have to have a bigger system than you currently have.

Quote

**
Back in the glory days of EV, someone came up with the idea of a plugin (the term 'TC' had not been coined) which began with just Earth's system and then expanded as galactic travel was discovered. I would personally love to play a TC that grew in that way.
**

I wanted to do that once... But for nova... I think I actually tried to make a map, but trying to get the planets rotating drove me insane. (I'm better now :p)

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I am ME hear me roar!
Meeoowwwww

Spobs can be really hard to name and do descs for, as I'm finding out. I think I'll copy your idea Lindly.

Another factor would be just how inhabited your universe is. Lindly says she has the same number of spobs and systems. That has got to be one crowded section of inhabited space.

Nova had large dense sections of inhabited systems, then huge sections of empty systems.
Override was similar, but with smaller sections of empty systems. EVC had uninhabited systems on the edges.

If your TC is for Nova I certainly suggest at least matching the number of systems in Nova. Otherwise people may find your plugin boring.

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Cmon people, the (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number;=20&SUBMIT;=Go")Chronicles(/url) are worth looking at.

Quote

Originally posted by Captain Phillips:
**Spobs can be really hard to name and do descs for, as I'm finding out. I think I'll copy your idea Lindly.

Another factor would be just how inhabited your universe is. Lindly says she has the same number of spobs and systems. That has got to be one crowded section of inhabited space.

Nova had large dense sections of inhabited systems, then huge sections of empty systems.
Override was similar, but with smaller sections of empty systems. EVC had uninhabited systems on the edges.

If your TC is for Nova I certainly suggest at least matching the number of systems in Nova. Otherwise people may find your plugin boring.

**

Its he, actually.

And I've kept the same number of spobs and systems the same intentionally, so I can match up the ID#s better. After I've decided I have enough spobs, I'll just fill in systs. For now, I only add a no-spob syst after I add a two-spob syst, and the like.

Nova has over 500 systs. Sorry, there's just no way I'm going to have that many. I'll be lucky to break 150. This is my first attempt at a TC, though....well, the first attempt that's likely to get anywhere.

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Quote

Originally posted by Lindley:
**Its he, actually.

This is my first attempt at a TC, though....well, the first attempt that's likely to get anywhere.

**

:redface: oops, for some reason Lindly sounded like a girl name.

A person's first attempt is likely to be their last, especially for nova if you are doing totally new ships. There is someone who did lots of TCs, Kauther (Tim). he's done like five. Although he didn't do entierly new universes and ships for those. I can't think of anybody else off hand though.

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Cmon people, the (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number;=20&SUBMIT;=Go")Chronicles(/url) are worth looking at.

Quote

Originally posted by Captain Phillips:
**here is someone who did lots of TCs, Kauther (Tim). he's done like five. Although he didn't do entierly new universes and ships for those. I can't think of anybody else off hand though.

**

kauthor and Tim are entirely different people... Tim has made five or six TCs, while kauthor just likes to poke his nose into other people's TCs.

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He is not a fundamentalist jew
As hard as that is to believe

(quote)Originally posted by Mazca:
**kauthor and Tim are entirely different people... Tim has made five or six TCs, while kauthor just likes to poke his nose into other people's TCs.:redface:
thats the second dumb thing I've said on this thread. need to be more carefull. Oh well, I meant Tim.

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Cmon people, the (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number;=20&SUBMIT;=Go")Chronicles(/url) are worth looking at.
**

Believe me, I know how difficult TCs are. That's why I'm doing the spobs, systs, and spob descs first. That's what tripped up my last attempt at a TC (based on Babylon 5). And that's also what tripped up my attemt at an expansion to EVO.

I figure if I get the infastructure of the universe in place first, the outfits, weapons, and especially the storylines will be much easier to deal with.

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Quote

Originally posted by Captain Phillips:
**:redface: oops, for some reason Lindly sounded like a girl name.

A person's first attempt is likely to be their last, especially for nova if you are doing totally new ships. There is someone who did lots of TCs, Kauther (Tim). he's done like five. Although he didn't do entierly new universes and ships for those. I can't think of anybody else off hand though.

**

Exactly what is a TC that doesn't have a new universe and ships?

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Quote

Originally posted by Martin Turner:
**Exactly what is a TC that doesn't have a new universe and ships?

**

Didn't you yourself coin the term quasi-TC for such endeavours, or am I thinking of someone else?

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I'm afraid it was someone else - I only endorsed it.

I just thought it was kind of funny saying 'x has made five TCs — of course, they didn't change everything'. Even funnier when it's 'sorry, it wasn't x, it was y'.

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