Is There a way to Blind the player?

Zzap212

I want to make a system where the player cannot see where he is going, cannot hyperspace out, cannot see the starfield, cannot follow targeted ships and cannot follow autopilot to a stellar (being the hypergate that'll get him out of the system).

cannot see where he is going: murk field set at 100%
cannot hyperspace out: small ships with a pict of a single black pixel with tons of mass and tractor beams
cannot see the starfield: a really bright background
cannot follow targeted ships: no clue
cannot follow autopilot: no clue

The only thing I can think of to make spobs so that you can't select them is to make them higher than the preset select keys (1-4), but that leave the problem of filling slots 1-4, doesn't it, or can I enter the spob as like the 16th stellar in the system? (Now that I think of it, it works with the Heerani wormhole, doesn't it?)

I can't think of any way to make common ships flying around (my anti-jumping tractor buggies would have a super cloak) untargetable (not being able to home in on them) is to either: a) elimenate them from that system, to give them all cloaks as well (which necessitates more shďps or përs or to c) ask you guys and hope there is some obscure feature that can help me here.

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When viewing a Terrapin for the first time, I realized that anything flies-if you throw it hard enough!

Cunjo

Quote

Originally posted by Zzap212:
**I want to make a system where the player cannot see where he is going, cannot hyperspace out, cannot see the starfield, cannot follow targeted ships and cannot follow autopilot to a stellar (being the hypergate that'll get him out of the system).

cannot see where he is going: murk field set at 100%
cannot hyperspace out: small ships with a pict of a single black pixel with tons of mass and tractor beams
cannot see the starfield: a really bright background
cannot follow targeted ships: no clue
cannot follow autopilot: no clue

The only thing I can think of to make spobs so that you can't select them is to make them higher than the preset select keys (1-4), but that leave the problem of filling slots 1-4, doesn't it, or can I enter the spob as like the 16th stellar in the system? (Now that I think of it, it works with the Heerani wormhole, doesn't it?)

I can't think of any way to make common ships flying around (my anti-jumping tractor buggies would have a super cloak) untargetable (not being able to home in on them) is to either: a) elimenate them from that system, to give them all cloaks as well (which necessitates more shďps or përs or to c) ask you guys and hope there is some obscure feature that can help me here.

**

you can use murkiness to obsure the starfield as well,
if you make the hypergate a wormhole instead, you will not be able to target it unless you are very close.
100 interferance will stop your radar.
you can copy and then adjust the ship rescources of the ships you want in-system, and make the new version so that they cloak, (of couse it will be easier the fewer ship classes you want) but then again, if you Don't want to see them, and you Don't wnt to target them. why have them? they really wouldn't even exist anyways. (the tree that falls in the forest)
instead of ships with tractor beams, just don't make any hyperspace routes out of the system. (i think you can still make ones into it but i am not sure, maybe someone else can tell you if that is possible.)

i think that will cover it.
anything else you need?

EDIT: fixed typo
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A warrior can shape himself to suit anything in the universe.
A master can shape the universe to suit himself.

(This message has been edited by Cunjo (edited 02-07-2004).)

Zzap212

1. I wasn't sure if every negative value simply blanked the star system's field out or if it calculated murkiness without starfields as well.

2. That is not really how it works. I've done some experimentation. In S7evyn, for example, the wormhole "Link" is listed either first or second in the RESEDIT fields. In Heeran (which has 3 stellars, plus the wormhole), the wormhole is listed as far back (#16) in the "navigational defaults" fields as possible. This is so that 1-4 keys don't work. That's how they get those to work.

3. Not really sure where I asked anything about that, but yes, I know this. I was experimenting with this earlier, to see if it was possible. It works.

4. Well, I don't really want them cloaked, because that requires separate ships with cloaking built into them. I really want to have them, however, because I want the player to have to try to find his way around while other ships fly around trying to find their way around as well. I'm not sure, but I'm almost positive that all AI's flock to the system's stellars (this hypergate being the only one), so I don't want the player to have the ability to simply target these ships and autopilot over to them. I want them to be stranded as well.

5. Thank god this is not so!!! When working in Mission Computer's graphical galaxy editor, linking 1 system to another will cause a one-way-link when you close and reload the galaxy. I've spent countless hours fixing up 2478(my unofficial TC in progress)'s hundreds of one-way links. While it serves no real value, it clears up the debuglog. When there is a one-way link, the debuglog reads "assuming implicite one-way link between system xxx and system xxx" or something not dissimilar. So no matter what you do, a one-way link is assumed by the Nova engine as a two way link. The last thing I need after spending hours programing star systems and linking them are the hundreds of "assuming implicite one-way links" that I get with the debugger. It's bad enough that every single missions and just about every spöb (I've only done a few so far) are listed as "ignoring reference to nonexistant spöb" or "spöb xxx is not present in any system" are listed there as well. When I'm trying to debug something, I have better things to do than to scroll through thousands of assumptions and ignorings by the engine (sorry 'bout that little rant).

So in short, I am probably going to have to drop the idea of having ships other than the tractor buggies in this system...

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When viewing a Terrapin for the first time, I realized that anything flies-if you throw it hard enough!

Cunjo

it is true about the murkiness setting working only one way or another, however, you CAN use a cron to activate a hidden outfit that will adjust the murkiness to hide ships and stellars, used in conjunction with a negative murkiness setting in the system, it may be possible to have both. (assuming they don't cancel eachother out)
do you NEED to have a hyperspace route into the system? or can you make do with just not having ANY hyper routes?
AIs do NOT flock to hypergates or wormholes however, unless their government is flagged to do so.

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A warrior can shape himself to suit anything in the universe.
A master can shape the universe to suit himself.

(This message has been edited by Cunjo (edited 02-07-2004).)

Zzap212

1. I have a little trouble seeing as to how this would work (remember, I only want this for a few systems).

2. Yes, I need hyperspace routes. How else could I lure the unsuspecting player into my deathtrap and leave him/her to die???

edit:
3. didn't see your edit. I was under the assumption that without any other stellars in a system, the ai's would simply flock to the only one available, even if it was a wormhole and/or a hypergate.

Let me give you a little background. Alien race: the Mazon. Big Nebula: The Mazon Nebula. Get more than 1 jump into it and you can't jump out, "disturbances" act as tugs on your hyperdrive core and whittle at your shields. Special devices called "lighthouses" are scattered throughout each of these systems that randomly spit you out in either GUPA or Mazon space. You have to find them yourself first, however, before my little tractor buggies whittle your ship down to dust.

This should explain my slightly crazy request.

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When viewing a Terrapin for the first time, I realized that anything flies-if you throw it hard enough!

(This message has been edited by Zzap212 (edited 02-07-2004).)

Cunjo

Quote

Originally posted by Zzap212:
**1. I have a little trouble seeing as to how this would work (remember, I only want this for a few systems).

2. Yes, I need hyperspace routes. How else could I lure the unsuspecting player into my deathtrap and leave him/her to die???

Let me give you a little background. Alien race: the Mazon. Big Nebula: The Mazon Nebula. Get more than 1 jump into it and you can't jump out, "disturbances" act as tugs on your hyperdrive core and whittle at your shields. Special devices called "lighthouses" are scattered throughout each of these systems that randomly spit you out in either GUPA or Mazon space. You have to find them yourself first, however, before my little tractor buggies whittle your ship down to dust.

This should explain my slightly crazy request.

**

indeed it does.

and to get the cron to work, have it activate only when in those systems.

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A warrior can shape himself to suit anything in the universe.
A master can shape the universe to suit himself.

Zzap212

rushes through 2478's crons

I don't see how you can get a cron to activate only in a certain system.

Mind enlightening me? I may remember the exact RESEDIT fields for most of the Nova resource types and I may know how everything links together (to a basic degree) but the concept of crons having anything to do other than... counting... still eludes me. How do I get this to activate only when I'm in a certain system???

edit:
I still don't see how it'll only work in certain systems, but the concept does work. I laugh in glee as my tiny viper mounting "weapon" gets hopelessly lost in the Sol system, not relying on autopilot. I shudder to think the absolute nightmare it will be (eventually) when stranded players must find a hidden "lighthouse" with no visual orientation, not even the starfield (they can't tell which direction they're going). Oh, it will be pure horror. Enough, in fact, to make people either read the flavour text or uncheck strict play.

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When viewing a Terrapin for the first time, I realized that anything flies-if you throw it hard enough!

(This message has been edited by Zzap212 (edited 02-08-2004).)

Neon Soldier

I have a feeling the ships with tractor beams will majorly screw with the engine, like the player will try to jump out but get stuck, and either jump out anyway or have to force quit the game because he can't do anything. Isn't there a way too make a weapon drain fuel from its target? And can't you just make the ships untargetable, or uncloak only when right next to you, like the wraith? I think that would give you the effect you want.

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Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
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Zzap212

I'm trying to test the tractor buggy concept now in the standard Nova scenario. I'm pretty sure that you can fly around once your jump is interupted by the tractor beam though.

edit:
Update: I've gotten the tractor buggies into the game and cleared everything else out of Sol, but for some reason, their tractors don't keep me from jumping... I can hear the warning klaxons, but I can't get them to hold me in a system...
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When viewing a Terrapin for the first time, I realized that anything flies-if you throw it hard enough!

(This message has been edited by Zzap212 (edited 02-08-2004).)

slouch

Try using an invisible mission which places a special ship in one of these systems with a special ship goal of observe. In the On ShipDone field, have it grant an outfit of mod type 23 (hyperspace distance mod) and a value of 32767. (You may also need to abort it in this field). This should prevent the player from jumping out of the system.

I've done similar things for granting fuel scoop negating outfits when the player ventures outside of the 'heliosphere'. Might be worth a shot.

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Cunjo

I quite honestly don't know how exactly it is done, i just know it works, because nova uses it in the vellos, or was it the polaris? storyline to simulate an attack from the krypt mind. technically it should work for other purposes too. (if you want an example to reverse-engineer, and find out how it works, look for a cron that has a name that has something to do with the krypt, and an outfit called "krypt mind attack". the two work together to drain shields and energy while in certian systems.

you can also use this to make an outfit that constantly drains fuel while in those systems.
------------------
A warrior can shape himself to suit anything in the universe.
A master can shape the universe to suit himself.

(This message has been edited by Cunjo (edited 02-08-2004).)

Cunjo

Quote

Originally posted by slouch:
**Try using an invisible mission which places a special ship in one of these systems with a special ship goal of observe. In the On ShipDone field, have it grant an outfit of mod type 23 (hyperspace distance mod) and a value of 32767. (You may also need to abort it in this field). This should prevent the player from jumping out of the system.

I've done similar things for granting fuel scoop negating outfits when the player ventures outside of the 'heliosphere'. Might be worth a shot.

**

hmm, that might work too. but what if the player hypers through the system too fast? will the ship goal have time to implement? i soppose even if it didn't you could make it so that the system is a dead-end or one way corridor to a dead-end, without maps available in nearby systems, that way you couldn't reveal a hyperspace route out of the system until you are stuck there.

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A warrior can shape himself to suit anything in the universe.
A master can shape the universe to suit himself.

mrxak

A really fast fuel-sucking outfit will prevent you from leaving.

Cunjo

i guess, now that i think about it, CAN you make an outfit that sucks fuel without you telling it to do something? (like cloak, fire a weapon, etc...)

EDIT: i take that back, make it a energy capacity and recharge mod, that adds a negative energy capacity, and a negative recharge.
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A warrior can shape himself to suit anything in the universe.
A master can shape the universe to suit himself.

(This message has been edited by Cunjo (edited 02-08-2004).)

Zzap212

these are all great, but how do I get it to activate only in certain systems??? Can I make a single ship (for a mission) with a self-destruct type weapon? Make the objective to destroy the ship? The second you jump in, the ship destroys itself firing at you and you get the magic anti-jump outfi?

Make the "lighthouses" into normal spobs and give them missions that remove the anti-jump outfit and randomly move you to a specified location on either side of the border? Does the random operator bit work for the "move" bit (Mxxx)?

Or can I make the nebula's onexplore field grant this anti-jump outfit? Once again, make the lighthouse remove it? Would this work?

The problems I run into are:
getting this outfit to the player only in certain systems
and getting rid of this outfit when in the other systems

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When viewing a Terrapin for the first time, I realized that anything flies-if you throw it hard enough!

Cunjo

as i have stated before, i know that it works somehow, and you CAN use the editor to find out how, just take a look at the outfit, nebule, and cron rescources. look for a nebula that exists in vellos/krypt space, a cron that has to do with the krypt, and the "krypt mind attach" outfit. study them and you should be able to figure it out.

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A warrior can shape himself to suit anything in the universe.
A master can shape the universe to suit himself.

Zzap212

Herein lies the problem. Either my version of Nova is damaged (likely, because Matt Burch's përs file was corrupted) or the Krypt Mind Attack was removed from 1.0.7.

I can't find "Krypt Mind Attack" anywhere in the outfits and there is nothing in the cröns relating to the Vellos other than the continuous map crons.

I know that it was there in previous versions (or undamaged versions...) because I remember the description for it was something like "MY BRAIN HURTS".

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When viewing a Terrapin for the first time, I realized that anything flies-if you throw it hard enough!

Neon Soldier

Quote

Originally posted by Cunjo:
**as i have stated before, i know that it works somehow, and you CAN use the editor to find out how, just take a look at the outfit, nebule, and cron rescources. look for a nebula that exists in vellos/krypt space, a cron that has to do with the krypt, and the "krypt mind attach" outfit. study them and you should be able to figure it out.

**

If you said it once in the topic already, you don't need to say it again.

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Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
(url="http://"http://www.livejournal.com/~rootski")Rootski's Blog(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/games/evn/addons.html")Free Stuff That's Still Overpriced(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame1.html")Webboard Personality Test(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.evula.com")World Domination HQ(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.joecartoon.com")Yield to Immaturity(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.newgrounds.com")Prepare to be Offended!(/url) | (url="http://"http://macaddict.com")A Better Machine, a Better Magazine(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.maximonline.com")Sex, Gear, Sports, Entertainment, More Sex(/url) | (url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/neonsoldierx/PhotoAlbum3.html")Sephil Saga(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.theonion.com")Because Turnips Suck(/url) | (url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/neonsoldierx/.Pictures/studmuffin.jpg")Neon's Mug Shot(/url)

Azratax2

Quote

Originally posted by Zzap212:
**Herein lies the problem. Either my version of Nova is damaged (likely, because Matt Burch's përs file was corrupted) or the Krypt Mind Attack was removed from 1.0.7.

I can't find "Krypt Mind Attack" anywhere in the outfits and there is nothing in the cröns relating to the Vellos other than the continuous map crons.

I know that it was there in previous versions (or undamaged versions...) because I remember the description for it was something like "MY BRAIN HURTS".

**

Hehehe! The desc for the K.M.A is... interesting. I think one of the developers was tired of writing descs.
Outf 339 - it should still be there.
-Az

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It is here. EVNEW Public Beta (url="http://"http://www.aznt.com/EVN/EVNEW")www.aznt.com/EVN/EVNEW(/url)
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Zzap212

Quote

I think one of the developers was tired of writing descs.

You think???

I see the outfit. It is made to work, Cunjo, by missions, not cröns. Exactly the same way stated before. The shipdone field.

Thanks. Now how do I get it to work before the player jumps out?

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When viewing a Terrapin for the first time, I realized that anything flies-if you throw it hard enough!

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Is There a way to Blind the player?