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Originally posted by UE_Research & Development:
**Very few of us would be able to gain access to acceptable vocal talent either...
**
I dunno... I'm a pretty good baritone, UE. Should we have a bit of an opera number to start the plug?
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"Oh no! Oh no! It is the RAZA!"(bar.) "What shall we do!?" (sop.) "It is time (it is time), it is time (it is time) time, to call <PN>." (both)
You can sing the soprano bit. 
~A~
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"How can I make it go faster?" -Me-
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Originally posted by UE_Research & Development:
**Very few of us would be able to gain access to acceptable vocal talent either...I just don't find video game music recorded with nothing but guitar and keyboard very compelling, anyways.)
**
J: I want U2 to record my plugin music for me. Can someone arrange it? I can only wait until next week. U2 will get a PERS, and a mention in the credits. I will also accept the White Stripes, Busted or Avril Lavigne, but only if they let me check the stuff first.
(Irony=off)
As it happens
I recorded the music for Frozen Heart with just a guitar, a cheap effects board, and a very cheap keyboard that somebody gave me about ten years ago.
People seemed to like the music at the time. It took about ten minutes to compose and record, using free software from the internet.
There's much better free stuff available now. ProTools Free is an 8-track to die for on OS9. Remember that it is a not-very-stripped-down version of ProTools, which is the big, big daddy of recording studio software - the main difference is that you don't get the ProTools hardware. You can download midi-loops for the drums which you can turn into audio using Audio Hijack. You can program your own bass lines using ProTools' sequencer, and use Audio Hijack again to audiofy them. Obviously at some point you'll want an actual, real instrument, but you don't have to play it yourself. Everybody (except the guy in Greenland) must know at least one musician.
Off topic BTW: a musician joke
An accordian player and a banjo player are booked to do a gig at a New Year's Party in a restaurant. The restaurant owner is so impressed with them that he says:
"Can I book you guys for next New Year's Eve."
The banjo player looks at the accordian player and the accordian player looks at the banjo player.
"Sure. Absolutely. You bet." They say. "Is it ok if we leave our stuff here?"
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M A R T I N Β T U R N E R
(url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evo&category;=plugins&display;=downloads&file;=FrozenHeart104.sit.bin")Frozen Heart(/url)
(url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evo&category;=plugins&display;=downloads&file;=FemmeFatale.sea.bin")Femme Fatale(/url)
(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/vftp/dl-redirect.pl?path=evo/plugins&file;=Frozen Heart - the No.hqx")Frozen Heart - the Novel(/url)
I liked FH's musical content...it's more of the 'landing music' that I'm worried about. (Although that opera number to start the plug wouldn't be a bad idea ;)). I suppose someone with a decent synthesizer and enough skill could probably fake something orchestral. Or they could risk the precomposed pieces and hope nobody notices. Not to mention weapon sounds, etc.
Do you really think .rez could become a popular file-pirating format?
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(url="http://"http://www.geocities.com/ue_rd")Fatal Alliance- an upcoming quasi-TC for EVN.(/url)
Secret Project: Nearing Completion. (No links available)
Visit the (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number;=20&SUBMIT;=Go")Chronicles(/url) today! Be sure to read the short story ' (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/ubb/newsdisplay.cgi?action=topics &number;=20&forum;=*EV/EVO+chronicles&DaysPrune;=100&article;=000262&startpoint;=")Fiery Descent(/url)'!
(url="http://"http://www.cwssoftware.com")Sephil Saga(/url): An upcoming TC, visit the web page today.| || Both the best and the worst plug-in editor for Windows! (url="http://"http://www.aznt.com/EVN/EVNEW")EVNEW(/url)!
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Originally posted by Artanis:
Orca, thanks, I completely missed that expression.
You're welcome. Hey, that's why we're here (well, most of us...), right?
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Originally posted by UE_Research & Development:
Do you really think .rez could become a popular file-pirating format?
Not likely. Remember that over 90% of the world uses Windows, and so far I know of only one way to hear said music on Windows: by running EVN.
Suffice to say, you can indeed convert it to a different sound type with a Macβusing but two free applications (you could run RezConv on it and use SoundApp to convert it to a System 7 Sound, for instance.
Of course, any Windows user who has registered has merely to remove all except one spob and any other necessary things from the Data Files temporarily (or permanently) and make a plug-in that changes this spob so it plays sound with your sound ID, all using EVNEW. Then the player has but a short wait until they may listen to their song as many times as they wish.
One drawback, however, is the quality of the sound. It must be taken into consideration that EVN uses 11kHz sound, and we are very far past that nowadays.
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Originally posted by Martin Turner:
I will also accept the White Stripes, Busted or Avril Lavigne, but only if they let me check the stuff first.
Avril? Do you seriously want people to hear songs about skater boys and damn cold nights and making things complicated? 
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I recorded the music for Frozen Heart with just a guitar, a cheap effects board, and a very cheap keyboard that somebody gave me about ten years ago.
So, are you saying I could do it with the keyboard my grandfather often used to play at night clubs (which I inherited)? Damn, I feel stupid...
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The programmer's code of entomology: there's always another bug.
Windows users: stop asking for plugins. (url="http://"http://www.aznt.com/EVN/EVNEW/")Make one yourself.(/url)
Sure, why not? If your grandad was good enough on that keyboard for people to listen to him again and again, then the keyboard is good enough to record. Loads of recordings are done using hard to find 'vintage' instruments. A lot of them are hard to find because people were busy chucking them away in the 80s to make way for the latest 'hot' sounds from the first polyphonic synths that you could actually buy without a new mortgage. Now even some of those are 'vintage'. Remember the classic DX7?
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M A R T I N Β T U R N E R
(url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evo&category;=plugins&display;=downloads&file;=FrozenHeart104.sit.bin")Frozen Heart(/url)
(url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evo&category;=plugins&display;=downloads&file;=FemmeFatale.sea.bin")Femme Fatale(/url)
(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/vftp/dl-redirect.pl?path=evo/plugins&file;=Frozen Heart - the No.hqx")Frozen Heart - the Novel(/url)
Well, if it's landing stuff you want, there are loads of royalty-free music CDs out there, just like there are royalty-free photo CDs out there. You should be able to get the clips you want.
Otherwise, take a microphone down to where your local high-school orchestra practices and ask the conductor if you can record a few bars for a project you are doing. Tell him it's for part of a game you are writing to be distributed on the internet.
You will never be able to achieve the sound of an orchestra with a synthesizer Β even if it sounds like an orchestra to you, it won't to a musician. Of course, you can use orchestral samples to create your own music, and some of the earlier attempts at synthesis have now become classics in their own right - Roland Juno Strings, for example, or Kurzweil strings, or, indeed, the Mellotron (as on Stairway to Heaven, the Rain Song etc).
A good example of this is the first few bars of Wyclif Jean's 'Perfect Gentleman', which uses a string sample not to emulate an orchestra, but to create something new and different.
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M A R T I N Β T U R N E R
(url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evo&category;=plugins&display;=downloads&file;=FrozenHeart104.sit.bin")Frozen Heart(/url)
(url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evo&category;=plugins&display;=downloads&file;=FemmeFatale.sea.bin")Femme Fatale(/url)
(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/vftp/dl-redirect.pl?path=evo/plugins&file;=Frozen Heart - the No.hqx")Frozen Heart - the Novel(/url)
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Originally posted by Martin Turner:
**Sure, why not? If your grandad was good enough on that keyboard for people to listen to him again and again, then the keyboard is good enough to record. Loads of recordings are done using hard to find 'vintage' instruments. A lot of them are hard to find because people were busy chucking them away in the 80s to make way for the latest 'hot' sounds from the first polyphonic synths that you could actually buy without a new mortgage. Now even some of those are 'vintage'. Remember the classic DX7?
**
Yeah...I guess. Only problem is, it's not one of those really big ones with 50 buttons and a list of 10,000 little thingsΒyou have 5 settings, period. Why is it a problem? I want more of an upbeat theme (but hey, who doesn't?), and last I checked, there aren't really any upbeat settings.
By the way, just what constitutes a "cheap" keyboard as opposed to a better one?
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The programmer's code of entomology: there's always another bug.
Windows users: stop asking for plugins. (url="http://"http://www.aznt.com/EVN/EVNEW/")Make one yourself.(/url)
My brother has made some music tracks that have actually attracted a fair amount of interest from a record company, using "Music 2000" on my Playstation. It's possible to make some pretty cool stuff with crappy equipment.
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(url="http://"http://www.mazca.com/")Mazca(/url) , Moderator, (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number;=9&SUBMIT;=Go&urgaylol;=yes")EV Developer's Corner(/url)
look through a faithless eye - are you afraid to die?
Interesting comments; I will be sure to try some of them out. I do play the piano, and I used to play the trumpet in school band, so I do know a little about music ;).
Would anyone actively object to the usage of other's music in a plug? (Of course, all credit would be given). On one hand, the plug-in would be free (you wouldn't earn money), so it would be less likely to attract the attention of others, and if you used smaller samples (as opposed to a four-five minute song), corporations really wouldn't find the reasons to shut you down that wonderfully compelling. After all, most fanfiction/art/etc. does break copyright laws. On the other hand, some may not want to see copyrighted music in a plug even if credit was given when due, because of said copyright laws.
What do you all think? I hope I don't bring down your wrath by bringing up the subject :).
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(url="http://"http://www.geocities.com/ue_rd")Fatal Alliance- an upcoming quasi-TC for EVN.(/url)
Secret Project: Nearing Completion. (No links available)
Visit the (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number;=20&SUBMIT;=Go")Chronicles(/url) today! Be sure to read the short story ' (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/ubb/newsdisplay.cgi?action=topics &number;=20&forum;=*EV/EVO+chronicles&DaysPrune;=100&article;=000262&startpoint;=")Fiery Descent(/url)'!
(url="http://"http://www.cwssoftware.com")Sephil Saga(/url): An upcoming TC, visit the web page today.| || Both the best and the worst plug-in editor for Windows! (url="http://"http://www.aznt.com/EVN/EVNEW")EVNEW(/url)!
One would likely be pretty safe using most "classical" music recordings, as it would be nearly impossible to track down which recording you ripped off...
Most of the stuff I have on my keyboard (it's a digital piano) is pretty boring... however, it does have a killer harpsichord sample; vibrating strings, damper, and everything. Anyone want some baroque music for their plug?
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Pinky, are you pondering what I am pondering?
I think so, Brain, but if they called them sad meals, kids wouldn't buy them.
(This message has been edited by rebelswin_85 (edited 12-01-2003).)
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Originally posted by rebelswin_85:
**One would likely be pretty safe using most "classical" music recordings, as it would be nearly impossible to track down which recording you ripped off...
Most of the stuff I have on my keyboard (it's a digital piano) is pretty boring... however, it does have a killer harpsichord sample; vibrating strings, damper, and everything. Anyone want some baroque music for their plug?
**
Dude, these days, unless you're really old, most everyone wants to hear upbeat music (rock, heavy/regular metal, electronic, techno, etc.). Unless you have a good place to put it, this probably ain't too good an idea.
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The programmer's code of entomology: there's always another bug.
Windows users: stop asking for plugins. (url="http://"http://www.aznt.com/EVN/EVNEW/")Make one yourself.(/url)
A strange idea (yes another one from the twisted mind of sam), if you are on PC, you could use..... Super Dupa Music Lupa! We used it in school for our compositions. You get pretty good quality sounds for something that costs $5 Aus. And I don't mean they are ****, there good quality and you can hack it and add your own loops (my music teahcer got confused that I had all these loops he didn't). The only problem a far as I can see would be converting it to snd resources.
You can do a whole lot of stuff with it, its not bad.
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Hey! If I want cheesey poofs, I'll get cheesey poofs!
-Eric Cartman Law Enforcer
"Respect my Authorita!"
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Originally posted by orcaloverbri9:
**Dude, these days, unless you're really old, most everyone wants to hear upbeat music (rock, heavy/regular metal, electronic, techno, etc.). Unless you have a good place to put it, this probably ain't too good an idea.
**
So, how many EV plugins have you seen with metal or techno theme tunes? Classical music definitely has it's place.
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(url="http://"http://www.mazca.com/")Mazca(/url) , Moderator, (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number;=9&SUBMIT;=Go&urgaylol;=yes")EV Developer's Corner(/url)
look through a faithless eye - are you afraid to die?
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Originally posted by orcaloverbri9:
Dude, these days, unless you're really old, most everyone wants to hear upbeat music (rock, heavy/regular metal, electronic, techno, etc.). Unless you have a good place to put it, this probably ain't too good an idea.
A) I am not old, and there is some very upbeat classical music.
Unless I'm mistaken (or they've changed it), the opening theme music for Nova is a selection from Holst's "Planet Suite". I wasn't making any specific recommendations, only suggesting as a whole that classical music could be easily used without much conern for copyright issues. Still, for any emotion other than "upbeat" (there was a suggestion that someone might wish to elicit sadness, for instance), then classical music could quite easily fit the bill.
C) I was honestly sarcastic about the harpsichord, in case you didn't catch on... that's a bit much to suggest, even from my point of view, unless you had some bizarre situation that really called for that sort of thing.
D) (an afterthought) I think that a dogfight to the third movement of Beethoven's "Moonlight Sonata" would be very cool... but that's just me...
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Pinky, are you pondering what I am pondering?
I think so, Brain, but if they called them sad meals, kids wouldn't buy them.
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Originally posted by rebelswin_85:
A) I am not old, and there is some very upbeat classical music.
Unless I'm mistaken (or they've changed it), the opening theme music for Nova is a selection from Holst's "Planet Suite". I wasn't making any specific recommendations, only suggesting as a whole that classical music could be easily used without much conern for copyright issues. Still, for any emotion other than "upbeat" (there was a suggestion that someone might wish to elicit sadness, for instance), then classical music could quite easily fit the bill.
C) I was honestly sarcastic about the harpsichord, in case you didn't catch on... that's a bit much to suggest, even from my point of view, unless you had some bizarre situation that really called for that sort of thing.
D) (an afterthought) I think that a dogfight to the third movement of Beethoven's "Moonlight Sonata" would be very cool... but that's just me...
and
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Originally posted by Mazca:
So, how many EV plugins have you seen with metal or techno theme tunes? Classical music definitely has it's place.:)
A) Oh, sorry. I misinterpreted what you meant by "classical." I didn't know what you meant was old music in general. 
Fair point. But an upbeat theme sort of, shall we say, "gets the player going." If your plug-in centers around sadness, then by all means go with a sad theme. Of course, maybe this is just my opinion.
C) I never mentioned anything about that. I don't even know what the hell you're talking about.
D) Moonlight Sonata? Sorry, but the only song of Beethoven's I know is Ode to Joy...sad? Yes. Typical? Fairly. I did manage to teach myself how to play OtJ on the violin, though. 
Also note that I wasn't being entirely serious, which should not be much of a surprise to some.
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The programmer's code of entomology: there's always another bug.
Windows users: stop asking for plugins. (url="http://"http://www.aznt.com/EVN/EVNEW/")Make one yourself.(/url)
(This message has been edited by orcaloverbri9 (edited 12-01-2003).)
Sigh... a little classical music would be good for ya, knock a little sense into you whippersnappers. After all, good ole' EVN has Mars: Bringer of War. Why not a little classical to brighten the thing up? Phoenix currently uses a Bernstein melange as its title music, and no one is the wiser.
<Trivial Point> UE, the piece in Homeworld where Karak is burning is actually a choral version of Barber's Adagio for Strings </Trivial point>
As to the legality bit, I find this solution works well. For around $100 or so (less for students, if I'm not mistaken) One can purchase a select media music library (actual title may vary). This is essentially a bunch of honkin' binders filled with non-public domain music of all genres, for any use, public or private.
(Edit: Someday, I will learn to spell)
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Hail to the Mage King! May the Wind of the Falcon guide you. (url="http://"http://members.tripod.com/lunarproductions/tc.html") Phoenix (/url)
(This message has been edited by liquid_doom (edited 12-02-2003).)
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Originally posted by liquid_doom:
**
As to the legality bit, I find this solution works well. For around $100 or so (less for students, if I'm not mistaken) One can purchase a select media music library (actual title may vary). This is essentially a bunch of honkin' binders filled with non-public domain music of all genres, for any use, public or private.
(Edit: Someday, I will learn to spell)**
This is all very true, but shouldn't we all be more concerned with the actual bulk of the work, rather than a fairly trivial aspect like the music?
I don't know about anyone else, but the sounds for the EV trilogy were all less than spectacular so I always just turned the sounds off entirely.
My point being, it'd be a shame to spend a lot of time and money on something that people wouldn't necessarily even use. Maybe I'm wrong, and more people listen to the sounds and music than I think..
_bomb
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"that'll be 15 cents hippie!"
It's the first impression that makes or breaks a game. While Bomb is right that, compared to the gameplay, the music only a smaller, lesser important part, it is still a detail, and one that will lower the overall opinion of the game if it is poorly done.
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Hail to the Mage King! May the Wind of the Falcon guide you. (url="http://"http://members.tripod.com/lunarproductions/tc.html") Phoenix (/url)
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Originally posted by orcaloverbri9:
D) Moonlight Sonata? Sorry, but the only song of Beethoven's I know is Ode to Joy...sad? Yes. Typical? Fairly. I did manage to teach myself how to play OtJ on the violin, though.:D
Well anything played solo on the violin tends to sound rather sentimental. Ode To Joy, in a full and proper orchestration with a fair-sized choir, is a very, shall we say, joyful piece? Especially once the vocalists join in...
(minor musical point: The Moonlight Sonata isn't a song... Actually the very word "sonata" means something played rather than sung. )
Some pieces that one might consider "sad" get a great deal of use in action scenes in movies. The "Dies Irae" from Mozart's "Requiem" is used quite frequently when intense emotion accompanies an action sequence.
(yes, this really can be justified in the context of EV development! Some passer-through might be inspired to utilize some classical piece in his/her next plug...)
More on topic - I find the sounds in a plug to be largely secondary. Still, very cool-sounding weapon fire and such can really add to a plug. On the other end of the spectrum, the sound of entering hyperspace in the original EV still bothers me... it's so loud.
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Pinky, are you pondering what I am pondering?
I think so, Brain, but if they called them sad meals, kids wouldn't buy them.
