Përs Activator suggestions wanted

seant

Plug makers, has this happened to you: you make a përs that should show up 100% of the time in a certain s˙st, but doesn't? Only by starting a new pilot will your new përs appear.

This is because of the way the EVNgine sets bits in the pilot file.

In the next few days my life will become much less hectic and I want to start work on a utility that will allow users to 'turn on' përs bits in their pilot file. I'm looking for suggestions on the interface, however. Here are my thoughts:

1.) Drag and drop of pilot file: If one drops a pilot file onto the application, the application automatically scans the plugin folder for plugins. It scans each of the plugins for përs resources and then sets the pilot file bits representing those përs to 1. This has the downside that it will activate all the përs' it finds in the plugin folder, meaning that if you have other plugins that have përs' you've already killed, they will be brought back to life.

2.) Drag and drop of pilot file + plugin: If one drops both a pilot file and a plugin on the application at the same time, the application will scan the plugin for përs resources. It would then set those bits to 1 in the pilot file. The downside on this one is that it'd be an unusual interface (and might make it take longer for me to code).

3.) Simple launching of the application: When one launches the application, the user is presented with a dialog to choose the pilot file, and then the plugin. Like the others, it scans the plugin and sets the correct bits in the pilot file.

The application will work on both Macs and Windows, but the Windows version will not be able to read .rez plugins. Users would have to use .rsrc files for this application to work. This is because Contraband chose to use .rez over .rsrc and have not released specs on the format.

So, what are your thoughts? I'm leaning toward using interfaces 2 and 3 for the application, but maybe one of you has a better idea?

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Mac<-->PC pilot file Conversions: (url="http://"http://phair.csh.rit.edu/~seant/EV/PilotConvert/")http://phair.csh.rit...V/PilotConvert/(/url)
"Create enigmas, not explanations." -Robert Smithson

Kame

Ohhh, that would have been nice. I just had to scrap a pilot that had finished 20-some missions of my plug because I found out that the only way to get text to appear when boarding a ship is to board a pers - meaning I had to create a pers and start over :frown:. I've just resorted to making a stock set whether I need them or not so that if I do they'll be there. Hopefully that'll work. The idea is most welcome though. I hope you can put something like that together.

BTW, not to pirate this thread but anyone know why the load cargo text doesn't appear when taking cargo from the mission ship? The cargo is set to pick up when boarding special ship and the ship goal is to board.

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((Ż'ˇ.¸(Ż'ˇ.¸Ť-KAME-ť¸.ˇ'´Ż)¸.ˇ'´Ż))
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seant

Quote

Originally posted by Kame:
**Ohhh, that would have been nice. I just had to scrap a pilot that had finished 20-some missions of my plug because I found out that the only way to get text to appear when boarding a ship is to board a pers - meaning I had to create a pers and start over .... The idea is most welcome though. I hope you can put something like that together.
**

That sucks. Hopefully I'll have something by next week. I consider this problem to be a bug, but I don't think it'll be addressed in an update. While I'm working on this, I want to try turning on all the pers bits in a pilot and see how the engine reacts. If it reacts fine, regardless of whether there is a pers resource for that bit or not, I suppose Ambrosia/Matt could alter the engine to automatically set all pers bits to 1 and only set them to 0 when that pers dies in game. Again, I doubt such a fix would make it into an update.

-STH

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Mac<-->PC pilot file Conversions: (url="http://"http://phair.csh.rit.edu/~seant/EV/PilotConvert/")http://phair.csh.rit...V/PilotConvert/(/url)
"Create enigmas, not explanations." -Robert Smithson

mrxak

I think a panel displaying all of your përs resources and their status, and a few options: "set all to alive", "set all to dead", and the ability to switch any on or off individually with a checkbox or radio button.

It might also be nice to have a feature where you can save separate files listing which përs resources you want, that way you can restore a pilot file to a certain përs state without having to go through it all one at a time. A simple "restore përs" button, that lets you open the one you want. The file could just be text listing the resource IDs you want on, so a user can edit that file separately (if they wanted) as they work on their plug-in, and then set the pilot file afterwards using your utility and the "restore përs" button.

Oh, and maybe implement a simple two-ID-file addition feature, so you can use two ID files at once. That way you could have several classes of përs resources. One for one thing, one for another, and pick and choose by class.

(This message has been edited by mrxak (edited 10-27-2003).)

mrxak

Oh yeah, and while you're at that, how about a similar utility for bit activation, or include that feature as well?

Aprosenf

Quote

Originally posted by seant:
**The application will work on both Macs and Windows, but the Windows version will not be able to read .rez plugins. Users would have to use .rsrc files for this application to work. This is because Contraband chose to use .rez over .rsrc and have not released specs on the format.
**

EVNEW can read and write .rez files, and I'll be releasing the source code once the beta testing is done.

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C:dos
C:dosrun
rundosrun

Azratax2

I would be very happy to see such a program.
My ideal interface would include a way to individually set the status of pers's, rather than having to reset all the pers's in the plugin (though the ability to do that would be good too).
Thus, i would lean towards 3 with the additional ability to manually set bits.
For the windows version it would be a very good thing for it to be able to read the .rez format. All it has to do is get a list of the pers resources in the file, not read any of the data for any of them, right?

Finally, i am envisioning this as being useful to someone who releases a minor plugin that few would consider worth starting over for, so they could distribute a copy of your program with it so they could activate the appropriate pers's - for use in this way, prehapse a stripped down version is in order that would take all the complicated part out, so someone could just drag+drop a pilot onto it, and not have to think about the details.
Looking forward....
-Az
While you're at it, a planetary-defence-fleet activator would be kinda handy too....

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Krypt-tokh6

I must say, this would be very welcome.

I have resorted to a) setting all the pers to on, with a generic shuttle, or having the pers appear very early on, so that restarting the pilot isn't that big of a deal.

This would be much help

Best luck

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seant

Lots of good ideas.

Quote

Originally posted by mrxak:
I think a panel displaying all of your përs resources and their status, and a few options: "set all to alive", "set all to dead", and the ability to switch any on or off individually with a checkbox or radio button.

Quote

Originally posted by Azratax2:
My ideal interface would include a way to individually set the status of pers's, rather than having to reset all the pers's in the plugin (though the ability to do that would be good too).

It sounds like people are thinking of this more of a development tool than something the end user would use. The way I envisioned the utility was more along the lines of what Azratax2 suggested:

Quote

Originally posted by Azratax2:
...i am envisioning this as being useful to someone who releases a minor plugin that few would consider worth starting over for, so they could distribute a copy of your program with it so they could activate the appropriate pers's - for use in this way, prehapse a stripped down version is in order that would take all the complicated part out, so someone could just drag+drop a pilot onto it, and not have to think about the details.

Maybe two versions are in order? A developer version that would allow for one to pick and choose which pers' are active individually, and a braindead version (like I initially suggested) that would work simply by drag and drop. I am inclined to make the braindead version as it would be useful to both developers and the end user.

Quote

Originally posted by mrxak:
Oh yeah, and while you're at that, how about a similar utility for bit activation, or include that feature as well?

I considered something like that. It would be quite a handy tool, but it would also allow people to circumvent the limitations placed into EVN in which one must register to continue a mission string. If one were to set a bit to get past that point, they could continue the string without registering. If I were to make a utility that would allow one to set and clear specific mission bits, I'd have to make people pay for it and then give the $ to Ambrosia to make up for the loss of registeration $ my utility would cost them.

Quote

Originally posted by Azratax2:
While you're at it, a planetary-defence-fleet activator would be kinda handy too....

Absolutely. It might not be in there at first, but I'd definitely want to roll something like that in.

Quote

Originally posted by Aprosenf:
EVNEW can read and write .rez files, and I'll be releasing the source code once the beta testing is done.

Quote

Originally posted by Azratax2:
For the windows version it would be a very good thing for it to be able to read the .rez format.

To risk hijacking the thread I started, I am hesitant to make anything that reads .rez files at all. I absolutely HATE that Contraband chose to go with .rez versus just using .rsrc. The use of .rez has caused more confusion among people trying to port plugins than was necessary. If Contraband had just written routines to read from .rsrc files, Windows users would be able to plop plugin files with the .rsrc suffix into the plugin folder instead of having to convert them to .rez first.

All I can say is stupid, stupid, stupid.

So, while it is childish, I am inclined to protest the use of .rez by making Windows utilities that only work with .rsrc. Please, convince me otherwise.

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Mac<-->PC pilot file Conversions: (url="http://"http://phair.csh.rit.edu/~seant/EV/PilotConvert/")http://phair.csh.rit...V/PilotConvert/(/url)
"Create enigmas, not explanations." -Robert Smithson

mrxak

Quote

Originally posted by seant:
I considered something like that. It would be quite a handy tool, but it would also allow people to circumvent the limitations placed into EVN in which one must register to continue a mission string. If one were to set a bit to get past that point, they could continue the string without registering. If I were to make a utility that would allow one to set and clear specific mission bits, I'd have to make people pay for it and then give the $ to Ambrosia to make up for the loss of registeration $ my utility would cost them.

A very good point. Perhaps somebody could make a utility that generates a plug-in that has a single mission that sets all the bits you want with a simple acceptance? Just enter the bits (set and not set), enter a resource ID you want for the mission, and you get a quick plug-in to set things as you'd like. Of course this leads to the next question, just how many ncbs can you have in one mission set field?

Aprosenf

Quote

Originally posted by seant:
**Lots of good ideas.

To risk hijacking the thread I started, I am hesitant to make anything that reads .rez files at all. I absolutely HATE that Contraband chose to go with .rez versus just using .rsrc. The use of .rez has caused more confusion among people trying to port plugins than was necessary. If Contraband had just written routines to read from .rsrc files, Windows users would be able to plop plugin files with the .rsrc suffix into the plugin folder instead of having to convert them to .rez first.

All I can say is stupid, stupid, stupid.

So, while it is childish, I am inclined to protest the use of .rez by making Windows utilities that only work with .rsrc. Please, convince me otherwise.

**

So in other words, you're going to intentionally make it difficult on Windows user just because you have a grudge against Contraband for not integrating the conversion utility into the Nova engine? Don't forget that the Nova Data files don't come as .rsrc, so you couldn't toggle pers bits from the default scenario if you refused to implement .rez. You're obviously a very knowledgeable person, and there's no point in acting so childishly.

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C:dos
C:dosrun
rundosrun

Azratax2

Although it was stupid of contraband to not support rsrc, i have to wonder wheather there wasnt a deeper reason. Add to that the fact that half the time the files have no extension, and when directly transfered by ftp, they end up as .bin's, and so on, it is not clear to me wheather all of these are the same format - once they are .rez's, there is no doubt that they are proper plugins. Mabey contraband could have included a routine to try to convert any non .rez files in the plugins folder everytime nova runs (which actually wouldnt be hard to do or add).
In any case, since the nova data files are .rez, and many plugs are distributed in windows versions that are .rez, it would make life alot more difficult for windows users trying to use your program. It seems kind of unreasonable to cripple your own program because you dislike the way contraband made thier port. We have what we have for the port, let's try to make the best of it.
On the issue of bit editor: All the missions in the strings past the unreg cutoff have P0 in thier availOn. Thus, if an unreg user used this to edit his bits, he still would never be able to do any missions or get any of the P0 or P30 ships and outfits.... Right? Besides, if they just got a pilotfile from a reg user, they could get the same effect as editing bits to get them past the cutoff. Right?
-Az

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Reo

About the .rez format thing. I agree with Aprosenf and Azratax2, no need to cripple your program just because the port wasn't done a certain way. I think this is why they did this: Windows machines handle mac files strangly, they dont have the resource fork thing that mac does, which is why you need to use stuffit 7.5 to extract them and spacifically tell the program to preserve the fork. Not only that, i dont think you can email rsrc through email to PC either. Basically, .rez has full windows support and wont garble in transfers, its not difficult to swap them back and forth so i don't see a problem with it, the swap program could have been made a little more user friendly though.

Here's another suggestion for the program: I love the idea of a developer and user-end version. I think that the developer version should be able to create config files that you drag in with the pilot file. The config files will tell it which pers bits to set and which not to. This will be useful for user end users to be able to get all the bits just the way the developer intended them to be. eg. bit 1 = set, bit 2 = not set. user = has to set this manually. With the config file all the user has to do is drag it into the program along with the pilot file and the config does it for them, telling the program what to set and what not to.

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Azratax2

Quote

Originally posted by Reo:
**
Here's another suggestion for the program: I love the idea of a developer and user-end version. I think that the developer version should be able to create config files that you drag in with the pilot file. The config files will tell it which pers bits to set and which not to. This will be useful for user end users to be able to get all the bits just the way the developer intended them to be. eg. bit 1 = set, bit 2 = not set. user = has to set this manually. With the config file all the user has to do is drag it into the program along with the pilot file and the config does it for them, telling the program what to set and what not to.
**

I also thought about how nice it would be to have some sort of config file for this. It would also make it easy to make a cleaner config file to unset anything that the plug sets that shouldnt be left that way, though this would only be realy helpful if the editor set mbits aswell.

On the topic of the stability of .rsrc (and .bin, and propably the extensionless files from stuffit) - they get corrupted if you look at them crosseyed. You cant email them reliably, and you can just FORGET ABOUT trying to download them from a website. This may well be why contraband chose .rez - all sorts of things seem to attack the other file format(s).
-Az

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Përs Activator suggestions wanted