Information regarding EV prequel

Luck

I realize that the original EV was much more about gameplay than any deep and involving back story. Be that as it may, I'm looking for any sources that might be of use to writing a plug-in set as a prequel to EV... specifically before, during, and right after the Great War.

I've gone through the EV Data file, and I think I have all the planets, missions, and ship (i.e. the Manta) that mention the Great War or give some mention of the Great Expansion. I don't have my notes here at work or I'd post my list... hopefully tomorrow.

Right now I'm looking for any other info that might be relevant. Like, maybe the great Creator has some notes somewhere that you old-timers know about that a young-whippersnapper like me does not.

I've searched the Developer's forum and the EV forum, and found nothing. Of course, I might have missed something. After all, once I got on the train to the airport with my suitcase still in my room at home.

Peace,
Luck

Heh, the desc for Torgo Prime always cracks me up. "Manos! Hands of Fate!"

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mrxak

There was that little tutorial file thing, where it told the story of a pilot, and had some background in there too.

Luck

Could someone email that file to me? I just checked, and it's not included in the Port Authority version of EV.

gte060i@prism.gatech.edu

Thanks.

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seant

I think a number of people have played with doing a Great Expansion plugin, but no one has really come through, though.

I remember Foundation, from way back in the day (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/vftp/dl-redirect.pl/FoundationPackage14.sit.hqx?path=ev/plugins&file;=FoundationPackage14.sit.hqx")http://www.ambrosias...ckage14.sit.hqx(/url) . It's not quite EV, but it might give you some ideas.

Really, besides the descs in EV, you're pretty much on your own. Kudos on picking the EV universe to develop for.

-STH

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Mac<-->PC pilot file Conversions: (url="http://"http://phair.csh.rit.edu/~seant/EV/PilotConvert/")http://phair.csh.rit...V/PilotConvert/(/url)
"Create enigmas, not explanations." -Robert Smithson

(This message has been edited by seant (edited 09-15-2003).)

mrxak

Quote

Originally posted by Luck:
**Could someone email that file to me? I just checked, and it's not included in the Port Authority version of EV.

gte060i@prism.gatech.edu

Thanks.

**

I'll get right on it!

Luck

Got it. Dude, you rock.

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Martin Turner

Actually, I found the backstory of EV more engaging than the backstory of either EVO or EVN. What I particularly liked was the way bits of back story kept on finding their way into the plot later on for example, it's not until that you are allowed to buy a Manta that you discover how the rebels got them, and it's not until you get to buy the Rebel Cruiser that you realise it's just an Argosy with upgrades you could have bought yourself.

Likewise, what a moment when you finally get to see the Alien Cruiser!

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seant

Quote

Originally posted by Martin Turner:
Actually, I found the backstory of EV more engaging than the backstory of either EVO or EVN.

I totally agree. Since EVO and then EVN came out, I have wondered if I liked EV more because I played it first or if it is just a well crafted game; I have been unable to come to a conclusion thus far. I think it's mainly the maps. If the distribution of systs was more uniform, I think I'd like those universe's more; I don't mean completely uniform. If you use a spreadsheet to generate 1000 random points, there will be clustering. That clustering looks naturally random, though. In EVN, the symetry of the systems closest to Sol and the tightly packed systs in Polaris space hurt my sense of the aesthetic. EVO had similar problems as systems in Miranu and Strand space became more spread out in relation to the UE systs. I suspect these are artifacts of how these maps were made.

Having not actually released a TC like you, Martin, I don't think I have a right to complain. :frown: Maybe if my notes actually result in a plugin....

-STH

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Mac<-->PC pilot file Conversions: (url="http://"http://phair.csh.rit.edu/~seant/EV/PilotConvert/")http://phair.csh.rit...V/PilotConvert/(/url)
"Create enigmas, not explanations." -Robert Smithson

pipeline

Quote

Originally posted by seant:
Having not actually released a TC like you, Martin, I don't think I have a right to complain.

Luckily, I do. My TC was called "Nova", and Ambrosia decided to publish it.

EV holds too dear a place in many peoples hearts for Nova to have a chance in hell of being fairly compared to it, but I digress. I'm starting to sound like a bitter developer.

In Nova's defence, a little something my friend Matt Burch once said to me: "Nova is the game I wish I could have made when I was making EV."

all the best,

Dave @ ATMOS

getcrack4me

Quote

Originally posted by pipeline:
**EV holds too dear a place in many peoples hearts for Nova to have a chance in hell of being fairly compared to it, but I digress. I'm starting to sound like a bitter developer.
**

I have to agree. There is no way in hell that anything can hold a candle to the original EV. When it came out it was fresh and new and in a different era of gamingat least on the Mac. Anything that comes out now will always be benchmarked to the standard, which can arguably be the best incarnation of the EV scenario.

The nostalgia that comes from being first can play on biases.

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Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne

(This message has been edited by getcrack4me (edited 09-16-2003).)

Mazca

I think I enjoyed playing the base incarnations of EVO and EVN more than I did the original. However, playing the original with the EVGE (Game Expander) plugin was probably the most fun I've had. It kept the feel of EV while expanding to a universe larger than EVO's.

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(url="http://"http://www.mazca.com/")Mazca(/url) , Moderator, (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number;=9&SUBMIT;=Go&urgaylol;=yes")EV Developer's Corner(/url)
Give us your address. Your shoe size. Your ears. We want it all. We want your soul.

Martin Turner

Quote

Originally posted by pipeline:
**

Quote

Originally posted by seant:
Having not actually released a TC like you, Martin, I don't think I have a right to complain.

Luckily, I do. My TC was called "Nova", and Ambrosia decided to publish it.

EV holds too dear a place in many peoples hearts for Nova to have a chance in hell of being fairly compared to it, but I digress. I'm starting to sound like a bitter developer.

In Nova's defence, a little something my friend Matt Burch once said to me: "Nova is the game I wish I could have made when I was making EV."

all the best,

Dave @ ATMOS**

Erm, this wasn't meant as an attack on Nova, Dave. There are many things about Nova which are vastly superior to EV and EVO, for example the graphics and sounds. The whole game is much smoother and more immersive. However, EV had some real strengths - if it didn't, there would never have been sequels - and the minimalist but compelling storyline and backstory were among them.

Also, EV had a better collection of plugins than the sequels - Angels of Vengeance, Eye of Orion, Clavius and Beyond, Battle Velocity, Pale, EVGE. There were more different voices telling substantially different but compatible stories.

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M A R T I N T U R N E R
(url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evo&category;=plugins&display;=downloads&file;=FrozenHeart104.sit.bin")Frozen Heart(/url)
(url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evo&category;=plugins&display;=downloads&file;=FemmeFatale.sea.bin")Femme Fatale(/url)
(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/vftp/dl-redirect.pl?path=evo/plugins&file;=Frozen Heart - the No.hqx")Frozen Heart - the Novel(/url)

seant

Quote

Originally posted by pipeline:
Luckily, I do. My TC was called "Nova", and Ambrosia decided to publish it.

Owch. I didn't mean offense. I'm enjoying Nova, but am still unsure why I don't like it as much as EV and was speculating aloud as to a cause.

Again, no offense meant.

-STH

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Mac<-->PC pilot file Conversions: (url="http://"http://phair.csh.rit.edu/~seant/EV/PilotConvert/")http://phair.csh.rit...V/PilotConvert/(/url)
"Create enigmas, not explanations." -Robert Smithson

Luck

Not that it has any meaning what-so-ever, but I hereby bless and sanctify this off-topicness in my topic. In fact, I shall now add to it. A discussion of the merits of the three EV games will only help me write my plug-in, provided no one takes it personal.

I'm in what I think is the smallest of the three camps, as I prefer EVO above it's two siblings. I'm a sucker for the "Terrans winning against long odds" story. If I could create in interactive (you know, computer game) form one episode from science fiction, it would be the arrival of the Hyperdrive Armada in the Wunderland system from the Known Space books. The notion a peaceful humanity getting pounced on by a superior and brutal attacker, barely fighting to a draw while we get our stuff together, and then returning the favor in spades is a story that will be told in one form or another as long as there are people.

Perhaps I like EVO so much because I'm subconsciously filling in all that detail. When I read about the Battle of Sol, I picture all the sacrifices people must have gone through to bring that victory about. I picture the despair some must have felt as the Voinians approached. I picture the resolve of the defenders to die as hard as they could, taking as many pointy triangular ships with them as possible. And I picture the elation all humanity must have felt when the Voinians were not only stopped, but pushed back.

For other book examples of this scenario, see Ender's Game or Starship Troopers. On TV there's the Battle of the Line from B5. Historically, there's the Texas War of Independence from Mexico for inspiration. From gaming, there's the Starfire series.

The original Escape Velocity has this story at it's heart, but the game is set after the critical events. I'd like to create the Great War of EV, to tell a story of a people attacked, besieged, on the ropes, yet ultimately victorious. It's a story of a people who could come together in war, but who would fracture in peace. Lastly, it's a story of people fighting for their homes, their families, and their descendants... ordinary people, who given the choice would have rather stayed at home and never seen the elephant. (In EV, should that phrase be "seen the flying shark?")

I'm interested in anyone else's opinion about the EV games, and what makes your favorite your favorite. I won't promise I'll work it all in, but I'll try and make the best prequel I can.

Peace,
Luck

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getcrack4me

Quote

Originally posted by Luck:
... snip ...

A little melodramatic don't you think?

(MY OPINION)
It is true that the key difference with EV/EVO vs. EVN was that EV/EVO had external enemiesnamely aliens that seemingly have no key motive other than to attack and kill.
In EVN, the enemies are internal namely humans fighting amongst themselves. Although EV/EVO had that in some degree, both of them had factions that had clear goals. For example, EV had the outer colonies that no longer wanted to be slaves to the richer inner colonies. Also, EVO had the mini-independence movement of colonies that saw the Vionians as a distant threat and wanted to spend their resources on the immediate threats of the Renegades.
EVN, however, have conflicts based on ideologies that came about from internal vises, which were basically the Vellos. These conflicts were probably hard to identify with. I could see myself with the Confeds or the Rebels or the UE or the Independents, but it was hard for me to place myself among the Warrior Aurorans, the caste-like Polarans, or the Feds/Rebels who were both just bickering about the goals and policy of the Federation. Perhaps the EVN factions just didn't have sympathy for a humanity that was fractured because of time. After the destruction of the hypergates, humanity drifted because of time. As time passed, the factions grew into their own independent cultures. After a while they forgot what brought them to the presentthe mysterious Vellos. Although the Vellos are a more tangible than the aliens of EV, they were not a concrete threat to the future of humanity. The Vionians and the aliens of the Great War had the advantage of lasers and rocketsboth were used to destroy humans. The Vellos did not train their weapons on the mundane/non-telepathic humansit was the Polarans who took up their cause and some Federation faction that blew up the hypergates.
(/MY OPINION)

I hope some clear idea came out of that convoluted post.

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Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne

(This message has been edited by getcrack4me (edited 09-16-2003).)

seant

Quote

Originally posted by Luck:
Perhaps I like EVO so much because I'm subconsciously filling in all that detail. When I read about the Battle of Sol, I picture all the sacrifices people must have gone through to bring that victory about.

I'm curious: why are you thinking about working on the EV backstory vs the EVO Battle of the Line story?

-STH

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Mac<-->PC pilot file Conversions: (url="http://"http://phair.csh.rit.edu/~seant/EV/PilotConvert/")http://phair.csh.rit...V/PilotConvert/(/url)
"Create enigmas, not explanations." -Robert Smithson

mrxak

I enjoyed EV a great deal, and probably a lot of it had to do with it being the first. EV was set up very well though, and everything made sense. EVO was also fun, but I didn't like the universe as much, and the stories seemed much weaker.

Nova has a great story to it. In fact, it has many great stories. I don't like the universe as much as EV (and I should clarify that I'm talking about the layout, not the content), but it's much better than EVO for sure, and I understand why things are how they are. It's the story and graphics that make me want to play it more, and surely you can't deny the new features are awesome. Some don't like reading a lot of text, but I do. It's just a matter of preference. So, I've got to give EV credit for making me fall in love with this stuff, and EVO for keeping me going for a few years more, but it's EVN that makes me want to play again and again.

Anyway, enough of that.

Quote

Originally posted by Luck:
Got it. Dude, you rock.

I know :D.

(This message has been edited by mrxak (edited 09-16-2003).)

pipeline

Quote

Originally posted by Martin Turner:
Erm, this wasn't meant as an attack on Nova, Dave.

Yep, I know that. Sorry if I sounded like I thought it was.

Quote

**There are many things about Nova which are vastly superior to EV and EVO, for example the graphics and sounds. The whole game is much smoother and more immersive. However, EV had some real strengths - if it didn't, there would never have been sequels - and the minimalist but compelling storyline and backstory were among them.

Also, EV had a better collection of plugins than the sequels - Angels of Vengeance, Eye of Orion, Clavius and Beyond, Battle Velocity, Pale, EVGE. There were more different voices telling substantially different but compatible stories.**

Agreed. We need some really good EVN plugs.

Dave @ ATMOS

Bomb

Quote

Originally posted by Martin Turner:
**Actually, I found the backstory of EV more engaging than the backstory of either EVO or EVN. What I particularly liked was the way bits of back story kept on finding their way into the plot later on for example, it's not until that you are allowed to buy a Manta that you discover how the rebels got them, and it's not until you get to buy the Rebel Cruiser that you realise it's just an Argosy with upgrades you could have bought yourself.

Likewise, what a moment when you finally get to see the Alien Cruiser!

**

The really interesting thing is that the backstory for EV is actually quite cliched. But thing is, the story is delivered so simply it makes the whole background very mysterious and cool. With EVO, the history of the universe is a bit more peachy, with only the Voinian war in the past as a major concern. But I think EV's strength is in its vagueness- its ambiguity. This whole debate is something I've been trying to wrap my brain around for the better part of 2 years, and well before EVN came out.

Why is EV so popular? I list my arguments for and against:

Against:
EV's galaxy is stagnant. Nothing changes. No visbits, nothing.
Nary a solid character to be found within.
Old graphics
Old engine
Limited gameplay

For:
Nostalgia- it was most of our first EV game, when the engine was simpler and plug-ins were dependant much more on solid storylines than they were sparkly graphics or big penis shaped alien ships.
Simplicity- the missions are A to B to C to fight Alien Cruiser, the sides are straightforward, you know exactly where you stand
Cool storyline (however much of a star wars rip off it may or may not be)

Feel free to add more.

The thing that really confuses me ****less is that on paper, EVN and EVO are much, much better games than EV- really, more often than not I wonder if we're not idealizing EV. Or maybe with games of this type/genre, simplicity is key. Who knows. I love them all, probably EVO more than the other two.

Like I said, I really don't know. For EV, I got tired of the same two storylines over and over, getting a kestrel then dominating planets. It got old. In EVN, I never really got the sense I was a part of the universe.. kind of like an observer being taken along for the ride.

Sorry, a bit ranty, but keep in mind, this whole subject has baffled me for a long, long time, and I'm hoping with two distinguished developers posting in this topic maybe we can make some bloody sense of all this.

_bomb

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"I've over stayed a while..
my time in exile..."

(This message has been edited by Bomb (edited 09-17-2003).)

Bomb

Quote

Originally posted by pipeline:
**Agreed. We need some really good EVN plugs.

Dave @ ATMOS**

I'd like to see some promising young pips write a series of mission expanders.

Hmm.. you know, thinking a bit about this has me wondering- dave- were there any unused ship graphics that you guys threw in the bucket for the game, but could release as a little graphics pack that people could use for expanders?

I doubt it very much, but it's worth a shot. It seems to me that the only real difference between the classic EV plugins and EVN plug-ins is the graphics (sure, the coding is a bit more complex, but not drastically), so if the graphical gap is eliminated.. who knows. Even a few solid expanders would be good. TCs are a universe entirely different. (no pun intended)

_bomb

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"I've over stayed a while..
my time in exile..."

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Information regarding EV prequel