I have a similar problem...It's not that I don't have any, I have Mechanisto, Strata 3D, and one or two others (used to have Infini-D, have no clue what happened :frown:), my problem is that I have no clue how to USE the darn things and, for some odd reason, either it hardly helps to look at the guide or there IS none...I'd rather use Strata 3D, so does anyone know of a WORTHWHILE (as in not a first-link-using-a-search-engine kind of thing) guide to building ships? Ewan doesn't seem to have any at the moment...thanks for reading this (that is, of course, assuming you DID, in fact, read it...) and your help will be appreciated. (And if it's helpful enough, maybe I'll throw a përs in the TC I plan to make one day while i'm at it ;))
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Originally posted by Mazer Rackham:
**Sure, modeling tools such as those in Mechanisto can be useful, but I can do almost any of those functions using Boolean operations. The reverse is not true. I defy you to create a cube with a cylindrical hole without the use of Booleans. Plus, I can easily integrate graphics into landing pictures (I made one landing PICT of a planetary defense gun). Lighting is superior, textures are superior, Boolean operators are a must-have, modeling is limited but can be duplicated. In short, Bryce > Mechanisto.**
Using an extrude tool and pen drawing... I think. Or antimatter objects in strata (but that's annoying) would work too.
orcaloverbri9: There really are none for strata... just get to know the lathe and extrude tools, most modelling can be done with the clever use of both. But the only real way to do it is to learn by practice, make a ship, and then ask us here on the Dev board for help. This is a great source, and I know there are several really good strata users here. Just practice and ask, that's all.
~A~
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"How can I make it go faster?" -Me- -
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Originally posted by Azdara:
**orcaloverbri9: There really are none for strata... just get to know the lathe and extrude tools, most modelling can be done with the clever use of both. But the only real way to do it is to learn by practice, make a ship, and then ask us here on the Dev board for help. This is a great source, and I know there are several really good strata users here. Just practice and ask, that's all.~A~
**
Oh, I see...well, simple question: what on earth does the extrude tool DO?
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If you have a flat shape, you click extrude(sp?) and click on the red dot and pull up or down.
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-Unreal Centipede
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Quote
Originally posted by Unreal Centipede:
**If you have a flat shape, you click extrude(sp?) and click on the red dot and pull up or down.**
I thought that was lathe...?
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Originally posted by Mazer Rackham:
**Sure, modeling tools such as those in Mechanisto can be useful, but I can do almost any of those functions using Boolean operations. The reverse is not true. I defy you to create a cube with a cylindrical hole without the use of Booleans. Plus, I can easily integrate graphics into landing pictures (I made one landing PICT of a planetary defense gun). Lighting is superior, textures are superior, Boolean operators are a must-have, modeling is limited but can be duplicated. In short, Bryce > Mechanisto.**
There are countless operations that booleans simply can not reproduce. I never use booleans, they serve almost no purpose for me, and you defy me to do this:
without using booleans? Too late, done, no booleans used. In my opinion booleans serve almost zero purpose. Neither do metaballs. In short polys>booleans, regardless of package. Not that it is a big deal, but almost every other modeling package supports poly booleans, not that they are employed regularly.
Joe------------------
"Life is tough, but it's even tougher when you're stupid."
-John Wayne -
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Originally posted by jdh545:
**There are countless operations that booleans simply can not reproduce. I never use booleans, they serve almost no purpose for me, and you defy me to do this:
(big images cut)without using booleans? Too late, done, no booleans used. In my opinion booleans serve almost zero purpose. Neither do metaballs. In short polys>booleans, regardless of package. Not that it is a big deal, but almost every other modeling package supports poly booleans, not that they are employed regularly.
**Booleans are a quick and easy tool for adding cuts into hulls and stuff as an afterthought. It's easier to do, but grantedly more buggy. I'll agree with you that there are things that booleans can't do, but heck it can be a time saver in some cases.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."-Albert Einstein -
Cube was an extruded poly with the basic shape of a cube with a hole missing, and the balls were just concentric spheres. I deleted the top half of both, and made a poly from the two open edges. nothing I did was remotely hard. So it is possible to do the operations sans booleans, but I really never find any use for the boolean style anyway, even if booleans could repoduce the general shape that I want, they do so in a way that looks to crisp and fake. Here are some old models I did to get maya basics down; never finished or textured, and very basic, they still provide a good example of modeling that is simply unreproducable with booleans. These are both poly models and do not use sub-Ds or any advanced features at all.
On a side note, for the price of bryce, there are many full featured modeling programs, any of whitch provides you much more power and flexability than does bryce. Hell, blender is free and it is a good deal more powerful.
Joe------------------
"Life is tough, but it's even tougher when you're stupid."
-John Wayne -
I use Strata 3D, (you know the free one)
I have also used Mechanisto, both great programs.
But if you have money get Strata pro, or some thing like it.Quote
Originally posted by Azdara:
**
I'm so depressed now.:frown:~A~
**
Could you E-mail me? I need to talk to you Azdara.
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A life, ohhhh, that a new plug-in right?
"Borb II of V.S.S Hellfire." -
Sure thing borb... and about strata pro, I tried it out in the design lab at my uni... Man that thing kicks arse! I'm definately getting it when I get off my arse and get a job.
For now, strata rules for making the best free rendering program, even if they cut it back every year.~A~
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"How can I make it go faster?" -Me- -
Quote
Originally posted by jdh545:
**Cube was an extruded poly with the basic shape of a cube with a hole missing, and the balls were just concentric spheres. I deleted the top half of both, and made a poly from the two open edges. nothing I did was remotely hard. So it is possible to do the operations sans booleans, but I really never find any use for the boolean style anyway, even if booleans could repoduce the general shape that I want, they do so in a way that looks to crisp and fake. Here are some old models I did to get maya basics down; never finished or textured, and very basic, they still provide a good example of modeling that is simply unreproducable with booleans. These are both poly models and do not use sub-Ds or any advanced features at all.On a side note, for the price of bryce, there are many full featured modeling programs, any of whitch provides you much more power and flexability than does bryce. Hell, blender is free and it is a good deal more powerful.
Joe**
No subdivision? that must have taken forever. Unless you used metaballs. Which, I might add, is an advanced feature. Booleans and subdivision and all help save a lot of time, I don't see what you have against them.
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(url="http://"http://zombat.roosteredge.com/")Zombat(/url): tastes like (url="http://"http://www.lightwave3d.com")lightwave(/url) -
They are both poly models. I really don't have anything implicitly against booleans, but I find that they are rarely useful, and tend to yield poor results compared to other modeling techniques. I definately have nothing against subdivision surfaces, infact I love them; however, in Maya, a smoothed poly surface often lends itself better to models that do not need deformations (these were also very early stuff that I did, and I really had yet to breach Maya's sub-D modeling tools). Basicly, in my opinion, booleans are not a replacement for a polygon modeling system, and the quality of a software package's boolean abilities does not factor into my decision to purchase a piece of software. In my opinion, Bryce should never be purchased for inorganic modeling (I am not really a fan at all, but it does lend itself to terain modeling, and I am not going to begrudge others for using it to that end) as there are products with similar price tags that put much more powerful tools at your finger tips.
JoeEdit: While metaballs are kind of cool, I find that few packages implement them well, and they serve little prcatical use. Anything that can be done with metaballs can generally be reproduced with nurbs or subdivision surfaces, and generally with a good deal less effort, and with better results.
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"Life is tough, but it's even tougher when you're stupid."
-John Wayne(This message has been edited by jdh545 (edited 09-03-2003).)
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whatever program you choose the key is practice. You will be amazed at how much you improve just playing around with the program. Click all the buttons, see what they do. It's not like you're gonna screw up the program. It isn't something that has to be treated with care.
As you become more familiar with the program, you will find that you look at objects in a different way, "How can I build that" and you'll start to play with the best ways to model things. That's how you learn really.
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(url="http://"http://www.adventuredog.net")Adventure Dog(/url): Everyone's favorite little black and white dog.
In a fight for peace, you must fight for equality, not revenge.
"I am against evolution being taught in schools. I am also against widespread literacy and the refrigeration of food." - The Onion -
I have like, 3 modeling programs and not much clue how to use any of them...(except Strata, but I'm not sure if it's just more user-friendly or less powerful than the others; however, I suspect the former) especially mechanisto. I haveyet to figure out how to change CAMERA ANGLES, let alone create ships...I just wasn't made to do graphics...I can barely draw anything, and when I do, it either a) would never fit into the EV universe unless Matt Burch/Peter Cartwright/whoever used graphics he/they made when he was a kid, or
takes me all day and long into the night (take my 3rd grade pop-up project, for example. It loked really good, but took me forever. Unfortunately, this caused me to get asked to draw something, and I was left with the task of explaining how on earth I could possibly draw something that good and have next to know artistic talent...). It's like many people out there: I can program like nobody's business (for my age group, anyway), but need someone else to do the graphics for me (Matt, Peter, and anyone else who should be listed here are exceptions to this...)... -
Overcomplicatedname9, I wouldn't worry about it... It takes practice, and no-one can make a great thing the first time they fire up a program. It took me two years with mechanisto, and I've had about one with strata, and when I (or someone else, but I don't want to talk about it) posted up some of my stuff everyone thought it was great. It takes time, but not as long as many other things, and the results are well worth it.
Like sparky said, just practice your little arse off. It'll take time, but man the satisfaction is worth it! Making your first ship that you go "Hey that's cool" to... Brilliant stuff that! And it will happen eventually. Just practice. And read the online manual for strata.
EDIT: forgot to mention, keep going to the image gallery, it's great inspiration from all levels of artists using all kinds of programs. If you see something you like, download the pic and try to figure out how they did all the bits, then implement them in your own designs. Or even better, ask them how they did it. I'm sure everyone there will help you out...
~A~------------------
"How can I make it go faster?" -Me-(This message has been edited by Azdara (edited 09-04-2003).)
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everything is made of shapes. When you look around, try to see what shapes make up objects, not just the objects themselves. That will help.
seriously, my first ships sucked. You have no idea. I made my first ship when I was 8 or 9 and it was literally 3 pyramids stuck together (I called it the Peregrine). I also made a bear before I realized how to change views, and that was a disaster, it looked fine from the view I was in, but as soon as I figured out how to move the camera I realized that the spheres were all over the place. Heh heh heh.... memories....
It just takes practice. It's best if you don't really go in thinking "I'm gonna make a ship" at first. Play with the program. I can't say it enough. That is how you will learn. Stick to one program, it's a lot easier to learn the basics on one program (sounds like you like strata. use just that for a while). You'll start to understand all the tools, and then other programs will make a lot more sense, you'll know what you're looking for when you start playing around.
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(url="http://"http://www.adventuredog.net")Adventure Dog(/url): Everyone's favorite little black and white dog.
In a fight for peace, you must fight for equality, not revenge.
"I am against evolution being taught in schools. I am also against widespread literacy and the refrigeration of food." - The Onion -
Wow...have you guys reassured people before? You seem like you've practiced it...Yeah, I do like Strata (I especially like how it shows the lines, the textures, and a solid shape instead of a wireframe like Mechanisto) so I guess I'll try...and yeah, I guess people's first ships do suck...okay, I'll get to practicing my arse off...after I finish my homework
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there ya go!
If you have questions, feel free to email me. I use Lightwave now, but I used to use Strata. Other more strata oriented people might be a better resource for you, though.
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(url="http://"http://www.adventuredog.net")Adventure Dog(/url): Everyone's favorite little black and white dog.
In a fight for peace, you must fight for equality, not revenge.
"I am against evolution being taught in schools. I am also against widespread literacy and the refrigeration of food." - The Onion