Quote

Originally posted by DannyFloyd411:
**Now that this matter is almost cleared up, I won't contact the add-on authors by e-mail later. If you don't want me harrasing you like that...post it here.

**

I suggest that you not harass those who don't post either. However, to cover my bases. As co-programmer/developer of The Ages Trilogy and as sole developer of Rebel Vipers: I forbid you or anyone else who was born, is being born,or will be born in this universe or any other parallel universe from including any of the above plug-ins or component parts of those plug-ins/collections in any electronic, written, or telepathic library, whether CD or any future technology. There, I think that covers about anything.

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Man is a slow, sloppy, and brilliant thinker; the machine is fast, accurate and stupid.
-William M. Kelly

Quote

Originally posted by jdh545:
David, you know that was a typo, be nice.

I'm just trying to make sure this issue gets settled clearly, as copyright is one of the more misunderstood areas of the law.

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David Arthur
(url="http://"http://davidarthur.evula.net/")davidarthur.evula.net(/url): MissionComputer and the Talon plug-in
(url="http://"http://www.ev-nova.net/")EV-Nova.net(/url): Forums / Classifieds / Upcoming Plug-ins / More

When I said: "I won't contact the add-on authors later," I meant "I won't contact the add-on authors UNTIL later. I will not include any add-ons that the authors don't want me to. I suggesting selling the add-ond because I know a lot of people with 56 k. or less modems that don't want to wait an hour to download a 10 mb add-on. I am not saying that there is a 10 mb add-on, YET.

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Remember, don't eat
the yellow snow.

Quote

Originally posted by Quantum Transcendence:
**I suggest that you not harass those who don't post either. However, to cover my bases. As co-programmer/developer of The Ages Trilogy and as sole developer of Rebel Vipers: I forbid you or anyone else who was born, is being born,or will be born in this universe or any other parallel universe from including any of the above plug-ins or component parts of those plug-ins/collections in any electronic, written, or telepathic library, whether CD or any future technology. There, I think that covers about anything.

**

What about the Ambrosia addons server?

As for the Rebel Vipers, they're Ambrosia's property, anyway. You may have made a plug that makes them available to the player, but the ships themselves are originally Ambrosia and ATMOS's.

Matrix

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"Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool."

Quote

Originally posted by Quantum Transcendence:
**I suggest that you not harass those who don't post either. However, to cover my bases. As co-programmer/developer of The Ages Trilogy and as sole developer of Rebel Vipers: I forbid you or anyone else who was born, is being born, or will be born in this universe or any other parallel universe from including any of the above plug-ins or component parts of those plug-ins/collections in any electronic, written, or telepathic library, whether CD or any future technology. There, I think that covers about anything.

**

Well, first off, you can't forbid someone FROM something; improper use of the verb. Second of all, in uploading your plug-ins to ambrosia, you have granted them permission to include them in an electronic library. In addition, you have granted all who download it permission to include it on their computer's drive, itself a library. Furthermore, unless expressly stated in the license agreement (which must be properly written to have any legal effect) those who have downloaded the aforementioned files have permission to do with them as they see fit (this includes burning them to a CD). Indeed, if your work is not copyrighted, then you have no legal say over what someone does with it. In fact, since I doubt that you have copyrighted these plug-ins, I could copyright the original material contained therein. This is my point, deny permission if you want, but such a CD would be a service to the nova community, so at the very least, be polite when doing so, he was polite enough to ask permission, which is more than necessary for many of the non-copyrighted plug-ins out there.
Joe

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Quote

Originally posted by jdh545:
Indeed, if your work is not copyrighted, then you have no legal say over what someone does with it. In fact, since I doubt that you have copyrighted these plug-ins, I could copyright the original material contained therein.

As I said, copyright is one of the more misunderstood areas of the law. Almost any original material that anyone creates is automatically protected by copyright over most of the world unless the author specifically provides otherwise. It need not be registered with any government, or even bear a copyright notice of any kind to receive this protection, although it does help. There is no way you can own the copyright on someone else's work except by either purchasing it from them or having a prearranged contract.

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David Arthur
(url="http://"http://davidarthur.evula.net/")davidarthur.evula.net(/url): MissionComputer and the Talon plug-in
(url="http://"http://www.ev-nova.net/")EV-Nova.net(/url): Forums / Classifieds / Upcoming Plug-ins / More

Astually, idea theft is a common problem, and id dangerous as there is alomost no protection againtst it. You can copyright another's work, and there is little legal recourse. For this reason, authors are very protective of their unfinished books. To fight against it you have to prove that you were the origional author of these new ideas; something that is very hard to do. Without a formal copyright, your abilities to protect your work are severly limited.
Joe

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Quote

Originally posted by jdh545:
**Well, first off, you can't forbid someone FROM something; improper use of the verb. Second of all, in uploading your plug-ins to ambrosia, you have granted them permission to include them in an electronic library. In addition, you have granted all who download it permission to include it on their computer's drive, itself a library. Furthermore, unless expressly stated in the license agreement (which must be properly written to have any legal effect) those who have downloaded the aforementioned files have permission to do with them as they see fit (this includes burning them to a CD). Indeed, if your work is not copyrighted, then you have no legal say over what someone does with it. In fact, since I doubt that you have copyrighted these plug-ins, I could copyright the original material contained therein. This is my point, deny permission if you want, but such a CD would be a service to the nova community, so at the very least, be polite when doing so, he was polite enough to ask permission, which is more than necessary for many of the non-copyrighted plug-ins out there.
Joe

**

Once upon a time, I would have written something like what Quantum wrote to "copyright" my work, but I've since realized that it made me sound immature, and no one read the things anyway. It was a novelty that quickly passed.... like pogs.

Matrix

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"Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool."

Quote

Originally posted by jdh545:
Astually, idea theft is a common problem, and id dangerous as there is alomost no protection againtst it. You can copyright another's work, and there is little legal recourse. For this reason, authors are very protective of their unfinished books. To fight against it you have to prove that you were the origional author of these new ideas; something that is very hard to do. Without a formal copyright, your abilities to protect your work are severly limited.

Copyright registration with a government body is a means of protecting your copyright, not what creates the copyright. As for "idea theft", copyright protects what you've created, not the ideas behind it. So, if someone steals just the idea, but not the actual text of your book - or, to keep this EV-related, your plug-in - you can't really do anything about it, whether your book/plug-in was released or not at the time. That does not, however, mean that they can then take any action against you either.

It helps in all such cases if you can prove that you created the content in question first. The release of your plug-in with your name on it constitutes pretty good proof that you created it, but another good way to protect copyright is to send yourself a copy of your work by registered mail and not open it.

You also keep using the word "copyright" as a verb, which is not accurate; copyright is not something you do, but a property that is inherent in everything you create, unless you willingly and specifically waive it, which can be done (for example) by a declaration that your work is in the "public domain".

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David Arthur
(url="http://"http://davidarthur.evula.net/")davidarthur.evula.net(/url): MissionComputer and the Talon plug-in
(url="http://"http://www.ev-nova.net/")EV-Nova.net(/url): Forums / Classifieds / Upcoming Plug-ins / More

I'm thinking about doing that with just Rift on its own CD(minus the CD charge, however) since it will be so big, so no for Rift.

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~Nick

And to add my comment on the topic at hand: saying as none of the plugins that I've release have had 100% mine content in them (ie: I didn't create the images for my 3D Targets plugin, I merely adapted the shipyard pictures from the game and modified them), I'm afraid that I can't say "yes" to the offer, as it's not mine to give away.

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Quote

Originally posted by what_is_the_matrix:
**What about the Ambrosia addons server?

As for the Rebel Vipers, they're Ambrosia's property, anyway. You may have made a plug that makes them available to the player, but the ships themselves are originally Ambrosia and ATMOS's.

Matrix

**

"Rebel Vipers" is the name of the plug-in. I never was one for flowery titles. Technically, you could say that all plugs are at least, in part, property of Ambrosia because they include resource types invented by Ambrosia.

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Man is a slow, sloppy, and brilliant thinker; the machine is fast, accurate and stupid.
-William M. Kelly

Quote

Originally posted by jdh545:
**
<snip>
**

If you will read more clearly, sir, you will see that my post was obviously intended as a non-serious response. I felt it best to approach the situation in a light-hearted way, so as not to offend. The post was not intended as a flame or as an impolite response. I merely did not want to seem cold and terse by replying with something such as "No, you can't post my plug-ins". Thank you for the grammatical correction and the step by step analysis of my post.

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Man is a slow, sloppy, and brilliant thinker; the machine is fast, accurate and stupid.
-William M. Kelly

Quote

Originally posted by Quantum Transcendence:
Technically, you could say that all plugs are at least, in part, property of Ambrosia because they include resource types invented by Ambrosia.

Use of someone's software and/or file format does not give them ownership of your work - by that argument, Microsoft would own every book written in Word. The only content in your plug-in that is owned by Ambrosia is the resources you copied and pasted out of (or by some other means copied from) their data files.

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David Arthur
(url="http://"http://davidarthur.evula.net/")davidarthur.evula.net(/url): MissionComputer and the Talon plug-in
(url="http://"http://www.ev-nova.net/")EV-Nova.net(/url): Forums / Classifieds / Upcoming Plug-ins / More

Well, if that is how you meant it, I am sorry, though despite further inspection, it seems to me to be still only slightly lighthearted. However, this notwithstanding, I was definitely too harsh, and I apologize; I was slightly angered by the general lack of respect shown on the boards and especially in this case to someone who was trying to do a service to the NOVA community. In fact, I am quite sure that had a well known/respected member of this community (lets just say David Arthur, EVula, or andrew) attempted the same thing, they would have received a much more positive response. The fact is that this guy offers to do a service to the nova community, and asks everyone’s permission to do so, and he is met with an overwhelmingly negative response that was almost uniformly rude and disrespectful. There is a general lack of respect/kindness that often seems prevalent on these boards (perhaps because those who are respectful and kind are often less verbose, which is why I tip my hat to David Arthur who is respectful, helpful, vociferous-I mean that in the best possible way- and seemingly ever-present despite his reliance on a modem); it is often directed toward newer members or those with a smaller number of posts, but it is almost as often disseminated in every direction. Because of this general disillusionment that I was undergoing, I was overly harsh on your post, and I apologize.
Joe

(edited by mrxak to fix mispellings of and/or incomplete names)

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(This message has been edited by mrxak (edited 06-06-2002).)

Quote

Originally posted by jdh545:
In fact, I am quite sure that had a well known/respected member of this community (lets just say David Arthur, EVula, or andrew) attempted the same thing, they would have received a much more positive response.

My response would be the same to anybody. My work is mine (and what isn't mine I can't even speak for), and nobody is going to sell it. I'm sure others would agree.

(edit: this next part is not aimed at jdh545. It might be possible to think it was, so I'm sticking this in now.)

Really, I don't understand this at all. You are suggesting to send a burned disk of a constantly-updating list of addons and plugins for Nova at the price of shipping/whatever, when it would in fact take a shorter period of time to just download only what you want , rather than wait for the disk in the mail. Not to mention the fact there is no way of knowing if you actually are going to make a profit off this opperation or not. When I first read your original post it felt strange and sort of fishy. Yes, your newbieness (the ALL CAPS was a good indicator before I even looked at your registration date) is a deciding factor on fishiness, I'll admit that, but it is still strange no matter how many posts you've made or how long you've been here registered or not. I'm not even really sure who your customers are supposed to be (I know many people with slow modems who have no problems with downloading even very large files, 100+ megs). I'm sorry if this seems rude (it's not meant to be) but this idea just didn't make any sense, and I was a bit offended by what first appeared to be this little kid trying a get-rich scheme off my work and the work of others. That's just how it appeared to me, I'm sorry. My opinion hasn't changed much on this, and my decision to not give you permission to do anything will always be the same.

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(This message has been edited by mrxak (edited 06-06-2002).)

Thank you, and good night...

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Remember, don't eat
the yellow snow.

A few things:

1. No thanks. I do not want my plug-ins on CD's. If people want them, they can d/l them(even though they will be very large).

2. I am looking into what I can do with copyrights to keep my plugs from reaching the PC. Is there any copyright thing that could help? Such as 'this may not be modified in any way, shape or form'?

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Quote

B-man:
2. I am looking into what I can do with copyrights to keep my plugs from reaching the PC. Is there any copyright thing that could help? Such as 'this may not be modified in any way, shape or form'?

Ok, I've got to ask;
...Why?

A.

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There is a place, where these creatures of phenominal power exist. I went their once, and walked as they did, and studied them. Only then did I understand why we act as we do. - From the, "Guidebook to Humans", Antigan Military pamphlet

Hrm... I'd like to get one of those modified things too, but I really don't care if people use the concept of my current plug, Khamikazi, as it uses a cool factor in Nova's programming which I just took advantage of(with help, of course). And about the 56K modem thing, I didn't say that they were bad, I just could no longer live with such a thing. You should all upgrade to cable modems, but use different types, otherwise we'll all slow eachother down.

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