Hi all,

Here's a great little tip that I've been using on a recent update of EVN. When we first worked out ship masses for craft in Nova, we had very different ideas of what a ship would be than what they actually ended up as.

I've gone back through the ships and had a look at their masses, and devised this formula. It's not a be-all-and-end-all, but it might be a nice one for your situations. It also prevents embarrassing bugs whereby the total mass of weapons on your ship exceeds the mass of the ship.

Ship Basic Mass = Cargo Space + Free Space + Weapons + Ammo + Outfits
Ship Final Mass = Ship Basic Mass + 10% (as a 'structural framework allowance')

There you have it!

Dave @ ATMOS

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Wow, so simple... yet so true. A very good tip!
-david-

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Quote

Originally posted by pipeline:
**Hi all,

Here's a great little tip that I've been using on a recent update of EVN. When we first worked out ship masses for craft in Nova, we had very different ideas of what a ship would be than what they actually ended up as.

I've gone back through the ships and had a look at their masses, and devised this formula. It's not a be-all-and-end-all, but it might be a nice one for your situations. It also prevents embarrassing bugs whereby the total mass of weapons on your ship exceeds the mass of the ship.

Ship Basic Mass = Cargo Space + Free Space + Weapons + Ammo + Outfits
Ship Final Mass = Ship Basic Mass + 10% (as a 'structural framework allowance')

There you have it!

Dave @ ATMOS

**

Nice formula I hope people follow it

Just curious, could you give us an example of a ship that changed?

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Ares and EV:Nova plugin writer and all around helpful guy...

Quote

Originally posted by Ragashingo:
**Nice formula I hope people follow it

Just curious, could you give us an example of a ship that changed?

**

A good example might be the Lightning. It went from 20 tonnes to 60 tonnes.

Dave @ ATMOS

(edit: bad spelling)

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(This message has been edited by pipeline (edited 08-08-2002).)

Lightning? Are you talking about the Lightning from EV?

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Quote

Originally posted by Admiral Benden:
**Lightning? Are you talking about the Lightning from EV?
**

No, I'm talking about the Lightning from EVN.

Dave @ ATMOS

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Quote

Originally posted by Admiral Benden:
Lightning? Are you talking about the Lightning from EV?

I'm going to assume he's talking about (url="http://"http://www.evula.com/survival_guide/evn-ships/fighter_warship.html#lightning")this one,(/url) not (url="http://"http://www.evula.com/survival_guide/ev-ships/fighters.html#lightning")this one.(/url)

Bah, beaten by the fearable pipe.

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(This message has been edited by EVula (edited 08-08-2002).)

Gah, that also means that the Starbridge'll take 3 days to do a delivery. And a Valk Class IV'll be something like 300 tons.

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The Thunderhead Lance and Ion Cannon: Coming to an outfitter near you!

Quote

Originally posted by specops:
**Gah, that also means that the Starbridge'll take 3 days to do a delivery. And a Valk Class IV'll be something like 300 tons.
**

If you want to have weapons and outfits out the Wazoo, you'll have to pay for it by having a heavier ship. If it bothers you that much, get a Sutherland Alluvial Damper.

Dave @ ATMOS

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Oops. I have always forgotten about the Rauther Lightning. I usually remember it as the 'Lighting' from the 'Earth Shipyard Movie'.

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"Doritos:The official currency of fat people."-My friend
"All your bandwidth are belong to us."
"The less squeaky the more freaky!"
ph34r teh füt!

No other ship breaks these rules better than the original Lightning from EV. The ships weapons and free mass dwarf the ships total mass. If it's weapons were to reflect it's mass, it would be as useless as a Defender, and if it's mass were to match it's weapons, it would handle much differently in combat.

I am also of the opinion that ships such as the Valk V and Starbridge E were never meant to be in the hands of the player.

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35. The liberal hates you.

Ive always thought it would of been cool to make some outfits ship 'type' specific. So that you couldnt in theory buy a hawk fighter bay for your lightning...

Nice tip pipeline, ill amend my plug ins ship masses accordingly

l e g i o n

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Quote

Originally posted by Legion:
**Ive always thought it would of been cool to make some outfits ship 'type' specific. So that you couldnt in theory buy a hawk fighter bay for your lightning...

Nice tip pipeline, ill amend my plug ins ship masses accordingly

l e g i o n

**

You can do this pretty easily. Make an outfit called something like 'Fighter-Class Ship' and another called 'Capitol-Class Ship'. Put them on your ships accordingly. Set your fighter bay's as requiring the 'Capitol-Class Ship' outfit. Its a lot like a liscence, but its different.

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"Doritos:The official currency of fat people."-My friend
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"The less squeaky the more freaky!"
ph34r teh füt!

Pipeline,

Shouldn't there also be a factor based on the size/length of the ship? This would be the basic hull weight. Small for small ships like fighters, but pretty large for something like a Cambrian.

The 10% allowance would then apply to the basic hull weight as well as the other factors. The larger ships would need more internal bracing to ensure structural integrity under stress, such as gravitational stress when in a planetary field.

I have started working these out manually, but it is a slow process. Assuming you use ConText to separate the resources from the data files, and then create three excel files - ships, outfits, and weapons. Does anyone know if it would be possible to create an excel macro to look up the weapon masses in the outfits file, for instance? This is way beyond my skills in excel.

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Quote

Originally posted by Admiral Benden:
You can do this pretty easily. Make an outfit called something like 'Fighter-Class Ship' and another called 'Capitol-Class Ship'. Put them on your ships accordingly. Set your fighter bay's as requiring the 'Capitol-Class Ship' outfit. Its a lot like a liscence, but its different.

You wouldn't even need to make those outfits. You could just use the shďp's Contribute fields, and the Require fields on the oütfs that represent the weapons in question, similar to how ATMOS made most outfitter items available only to non-Vell-os ships.

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David Arthur
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Something to keep in mind: a ship's mass affects how it flies. A more massive ship accelerates slower, isn't affected by weapons' impact as much, etc. etc... If by following the formula a ship doesn't perform as you'd like, then what?

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Quote

Originally posted by Weepul 884:
**Something to keep in mind: a ship's mass affects how it flies. A more massive ship accelerates slower, isn't affected by weapons' impact as much, etc. etc... If by following the formula a ship doesn't perform as you'd like, then what?
**

Remember your physics, Weepul. The more mass, the greater the impetus needed to change the velocity vector. All this means is that if your ship is bigger and heavier, you'll need to have bigger and more powerful engines to achieve the same effect as smaller engines might on a lighter vehicle.

And, please remember, it's only a game!

Dave @ ATMOS

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Quote

Originally posted by JohnnyAndrews:
**Pipeline,

Shouldn't there also be a factor based on the size/length of the ship? This would be the basic hull weight. Small for small ships like fighters, but pretty large for something like a Cambrian.
**

Well, since the ship length isn't used for any calculations anywhere in the game (it's just there to look nice, according to Mr. Burch), we haven't bothered including it in our calculations.

Quote

**
The 10% allowance would then apply to the basic hull weight as well as the other factors. The larger ships would need more internal bracing to ensure structural integrity under stress, such as gravitational stress when in a planetary field.

I have started working these out manually, but it is a slow process. Assuming you use ConText to separate the resources from the data files, and then create three excel files - ships, outfits, and weapons. Does anyone know if it would be possible to create an excel macro to look up the weapon masses in the outfits file, for instance? This is way beyond my skills in excel.
**

I did indeed draw figures from other open Excel documents. The function I used was the LOOKUP function. Once I tidy up my documents, I'll post them up here for all to see/use/pick apart/laugh at/etc.

Dave @ ATMOS

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What about important factors such as fuel, crew compartments, armor, and engine size? Those are especially important if the ship is very small; in fact, the relevance of those factors might be determined by the ship's length.

You may all currently be comfortable with the idea that ships are just metal bubbles in which you stash your guns, but those who are familiar with Gundam would realize that a ship with no weapons/cargo mass to speak of still has to worry about its weight.......

Quote

Originally posted by NTiOzymandias:
What about important factors such as fuel, crew compartments, armor, and engine size? Those are especially important if the ship is very small; in fact, the relevance of those factors might be determined by the ship's length.