Ambrosia Garden Archive
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    • Infini-D's buggy modeller

       EV Developer's Corner
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      I'm at the point of pulling hairs with Infini-D, especially as of late... I can't model anything decent, because my cross sections are usually turned to junk from bugs. And Infini-D also likes to do whatever it wants to the models. I try for a certain shape, but get terrible results if I even so much change rail positions, insert cross sections, change points to "curve" or "smooth" etc... this is insane! I never thought I'd see the day when I just wouldn't touch Infini-D anymore.

      I'm wondering if there is a bug fix that corrects Infini-D's screwed modeller (version 4.5)? If there isn't, then I'm content just to let the program collect dust on my hard drive... and move on to Lightwave if I ever get the money (and that will be several years). Sorry for all the complaining, I'm just not on good terms with Infini-D at the moment. 😉

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      Quote

      Originally posted by Captain Skyblade:
      I'm at the point of pulling hairs with Infini-D, especially as of late... I can't model anything decent, because my cross sections are usually turned to junk from bugs. And Infini-D also likes to do whatever it wants to the models. I try for a certain shape, but get terrible results if I even so much change rail positions, insert cross sections, change points to "curve" or "smooth" etc... this is insane! I never thought I'd see the day when I just wouldn't touch Infini-D anymore.

      I know what you mean. Trying to model with Infini-D's Spline Modeler can be quite frustrating sometimes. I learned ways around some of the quirks, like making all of the points for the cross-sections in the extrusion editor, than changing the object to a virtical free-form, and inserting all of the cross-sections/curves before changing the cross-sections to what I want. Though, I still never get the look I was originally going for...

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      Originally posted by Captain Skyblade:
      I'm wondering if there is a bug fix that corrects Infini-D's screwed modeller (version 4.5)?

      Probably not, but then, I've only seen 4.0.

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      Originally posted by Captain Skyblade:
      If there isn't, then I'm content just to let the program collect dust on my hard drive... and move on to Lightwave if I ever get the money (and that will be several years).

      I wish I could switch to lightwave too, but I don't have $1,600, and I don't think homeschoolers can get an academic version...

      Oh well, guess I'm stuck with Infini-D for now.

      (quote)Originally posted by Captain Skyblade:
      **Sorry for all the complaining, I'm just not on good terms with Infini-D at the moment.:p

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      You can get the $400 if you are any type of student. All that is required I believe is proof that you are.
      Joe

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      Quote

      Originally posted by jdh545:
      **You can get the $400 if you are any type of student. All that is required I believe is proof that you are.
      Joe

      **

      That is what I thought... I am also homeschooled, and I have a few friends (also homeschooled) who have been able to get the academic discount version.

      MadFax: I think I'll look into that modelling method and see if I get good results.

      Also, I've found that converting warped objects to mesh often elliminates the areas you don't like or are screwed up. But I'd still like to keep my objects in spline format and keep the cross section data. Mesh only lets you edit the objects polygons at a time... can be very tedious.

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      "Everything we know tells us that machines are structures intelligence designs, and that accidents destroy. Therefore, accidents do not design machines. Intellect does. And the myriad of biological wonders that sprinkle our world testify to the design ingenuity of a Supreme Intellect." -Robert Gange, Origins of Destiny

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      What about trying Electric Image? Iirc, it is supposed to be top of the line and you can get it for only $199 at this one place online (I'll have to ask my dad where exactly).

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      Originally posted by spl_cadet:
      **What about trying Electric Image? Iirc, it is supposed to be top of the line and you can get it for only $199 at this one place online (I'll have to ask my dad where exactly).

      **

      You're probably thinking of the toned-down version of Electric Image, called Universe. But if you can get a link, I'll be glad to check it out.

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      "Everything we know tells us that machines are structures intelligence designs, and that accidents destroy. Therefore, accidents do not design machines. Intellect does. And the myriad of biological wonders that sprinkle our world testify to the design ingenuity of a Supreme Intellect." -Robert Gange, Origins of Destiny

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      Quote

      Originally posted by Captain Skyblade:
      You're probably thinking of the toned-down version of Electric Image, called Universe. But if you can get a link, I'll be glad to check it out.

      The impression I get is that Universe replaced Electric Image and Electric Image is now only the name of their company - but than again I've only read about half a page of material.

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      Originally posted by spl_cadet:
      What about trying Electric Image? Iirc, it is supposed to be top of the line and you can get it for only $199 at this one place online (I'll have to ask my dad where exactly).

      Universe 4 costs $994 or something, and the academic version is about $200, so maybe that's what you were thinking of... ?

      Anywho, Universe doesn't look like it has as many features as Light Wave. Two in particular are bones and hypervoxels. (Atleast I don't see them in Universes feature list)

      'Course my stuff will still look like crap, since I suck at modeling. 😛 😉

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      May I simply say, as living proof, that the Infini-D modeler can be dealt with? After using it and experimenting for the time I've used it, I've grown accustomed to its quirks and oddities, and how to work with/around them. I have a few simple suggestions:

      1. Instead of converting to high-res mesh, try setting the object to render as spline patches (which I've already told you how to do in another post somewhere). This, for me, often fixes both ugly polygon-ness and some raytraced shadowing errors objects sometimes suffer from.

      2. If you are dealing with cross-sections with multiple, unconnected shapes (like 3 circles, or the like), there's a control in the menus of the cross-section window called something like "re-order cross-sections" with a number of options. This tells Infini-D which shapes to connect with which.

      3. If connected cross-sections have a different number of vertices, Infini-D has to guess which connects to which. Try to avoid this, or be careful when you don't.

      Again, I want to stress, it can be dealt with! Don't give up just yet - experiment, play around, try to discern what causes what. Remember - that Polaris Manta I made (if you saw it) was one object in Infini-D, and althought I currently don't have webspace to which I can upload to show you, I made a ship slightly resembling the Naboo royal cruiser in SW:Episode I in Infini-D as one object. Unless you're serious about moving up to a higher-level program, don't give up on Infini-D just yet.

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      Originally posted by Weepul 884:
      < snip> Again, I want to stress, it can be dealt with!

      I didn't say it couldn't be dealt with, I merely implied that it would be easier to use something else. 😉 Thanks for the tips though, I didn't know about those first two! As for the third, I figured that out after ahile, and I've been keeping that in mind when I model with the spline modeler.

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      Originally posted by Weepul 884:
      Unless you're serious about moving up to a higher-level program, don't give up on Infini-D just yet.

      Lately I've been finding Infini-D very constraining, particularly in terms of modeling, effects, and texturing. (dunno if Light Wave has a better texturer, but it ought to???)

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      Originally posted by MadFax7:
      **Lately I've been finding Infini-D very constraining, particularly in terms of modeling, effects, and texturing. (dunno if Light Wave has a better texturer, but it ought to???)

      **

      unfortunately for you, Lightwave is incredibly different from Infini-d. Infini-D is object oriented, and Lightwave isn't. I just got my hands on a copy, and I've just been futzing around trying to figure out what I'm doing. It'll be a while before I figure out how to use it. Even after getting a file from someone to experiment on, I'm still pretty lost. Oh well. It means more practice is required, I guess. All I know is that Lightwave and Maya aren't supposed to be good packages to start out on. My teacher recommends SoftImage, but then, that's the package that he teaches.

      Matrix

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      "Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool."

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      I can't think of a better program to start out on than Lightwave. It is probably one of the easiest to use/learn modelers out there. It is widely acknowledged as having the most powerful modeler in the business. It also has powerful animation tools (not quite as good as Maya's, but 7.5 brings them to nearly the same plane, but Maya IS hard to learn, and has comparatively poor modeling tools). Once you start using Lightwave, nothing compares. I was playing around on a copy of C4D at work; it doesn't scratch the surface of Lightwave's power. I would say that for anything that anyone here is trying to do, Lightwave would be easily more than sufficient. The differences between it's and Maya's animation capabilities only show up in certain advanced character animation situations, and these discrepancies are small. I wholeheartedly recommend Lightwave.
      Joe

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      Originally posted by jdh545 and what_is_the_matrix:
      unfortunately for you, Lightwave is incredibly different from Infini-d. Infini-D is object oriented, and Lightwave isn't.

      Uhmm, could you elaborate a little more on that?

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      Originally posted by jdh545 and what_is_the_matrix:
      < snip>

      Well, those were two very contrasting posts! 😉

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      A lightwave scene contains lightwave objects, each its own file, but a lightwave object generally is not just a primative or deformed primative, but an entire object, like a character or space craft. That object could be divided int several layers which can the be handeled as several objects, and can contain an unlimited number of surfaces. This actually goes to increase lightwave's power. The diferences are more drastic than that, but are somewhat hard to explain. The best way to understand it is to play around with a copy, NewTek I believe has a demo for download.
      Joe

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      Originally posted by jdh545:
      The best way to understand it is to play around with a copy, NewTek I believe has a demo for download.

      Got a link?

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      somewhere on newtek.com? I saw a press release saying that they had released a demo, I haven't actually looked for it or anything, I have a full copy. 🙂
      Joe

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      Originally posted by jdh545:
      somewhere on newtek.com? I saw a press release saying that they had released a demo, I haven't actually looked for it or anything, I have a full copy.:)

      Light Wave Free Discovery Edition. Yes. I've seen the press release. But nowhere on newteks site do I see a download link.

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      Thank you, jdh545 for elaborating on the differences. All I knew was that Lightwave wasn't object oriented (primatives, etc). I do know, however, that Lightwave has (one of the, if not) the best renderer of the mainstream (Maya, XSI, 3DSMax, and Lightwave) programs.

      Also, you can get the full version of Lightwave for $395 at (url="http://"http://www.journeyed.com")www.journeyed.com(/url) if you're a student.

      Matrix

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      "Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool."

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      Dont let not being a student cramp your style, have your child, or sibling, or spouse who is a student (or teacher) buy it for you; it beats paying $1600 if you can help it. About a Lightwave demo, I know that sans dongle Lightwave can run in DEMO mode, and it seems to me that a friend of mine had a 20 mb (or so) demo installer lying around. But I would try asking on renderosity ( (url="http://"http://www.renderosity.com")http://www.renderosity.com(/url) ) in the lightwave forum, it is very active, the people are helpful, and i think i have seen a post concerning getting the demo version. I have heard that it leaves really hideous watermqarks tho...
      Joe

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