Please excuse my heavy utilization of this board for my questions, but I've got yet another question...

I'm trying to create photon torpedoes and implement a forward and aft launcher that uses the same ammo. Apparently the Bible even says this is provided for, but I'm not sure how it really works, if at all. I put both launcher types on my ship, but I still have to put in AmmoLoads into them, and that's what the game uses. Reloading my torpedoes seems to only reload the stock I have for my forward launchers, but I'll double check that one because I'm not sure.

But is it actually possible to do this, or do I have to create separate ammo types?

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Mike Lee (Firebird)

This is possible only in Nova; simply set weapon #2 to have the same ammotype value (this is in the weap resource) as weapon #1, and have an ammo outfit for weapon one. I don't know what will happen if you put both weapon #1 and #2 on the same ship, though; the AI would need to have ammo values specified for each & wouldn't share ammo between them, but I don't know what would happen to a player ship w/ both.

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On a related topic, could one use two different types of ammo for the same launcher? Say I have a Mark I and a Mark II torpedo. I have a torpedo launcher. Can I program it to launch them both(without having to use a mission to grant an invisible launcher or something)?

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Quote

Originally posted by Admiral Benden:
**On a related topic, could one use two different types of ammo for the same launcher? Say I have a Mark I and a Mark II torpedo. I have a torpedo launcher. Can I program it to launch them both(without having to use a mission to grant an invisible launcher or something)?

**

I don't know if that's possible, exactly, but you came up with a nice alternative. When they buy the launcher, have the player ALSO get another "invisible" launcher, which goes away when they sell the outfit.

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It could be possible for the dual ammo set up. Here is a proposal idea, tell us if it works. For the sake of simplicity, this is a TC example with all resources starting at 128. Apply otherwise for your plug

You create a new outfit ID 128. (Universal Launcher)
- ModType1 = 1
- ModVal1 = 128
- ModType2 = 1
- ModVal2 = 129
Create outfit ID 129 (Ammo 1)
- ModType1 = 3
- ModVal1 = 128
Create outfit ID 130 (Ammo 2)
- ModType1 = 3
- ModVal1 = 129

Create weapon ID 128 (Weapon Launcher 1)
- AmmoType = 1
Create weapon ID 129 (Weapon Launcher 2)
- AmmoType = 2

If you look at this, in theory it should purchase something that has 2 funtions (both acting as weapons), which turn into 2 different weapons. There is seperate ammo, so no conflict there. Note: EVO and EVN are the only two this can be attempted in (EVC doesn't support ModType/ModVal 2), and even then, the EVO and EVN bibles state that shouldn't be used (indicating that it might cause problems)

Test it out. I am interested in hearing the outcome.

(BTW, I no longer can use my account because of the server e-mail glitch)

That's an interesting idea, and I'll be sure to try it, but if it works, I don't think it'll work properly -- if it does load the weapons correctly into both launchers, I don't think it'll use a piece of ammo from both weapons when you fire it. It'd be cool though, and would probably be useful for purposes other than mine.

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Mike Lee (Firebird)

Unfortunately, last I checked anyway, outfit types of weapon or ammo only work in the first modtype modval location - I haven't tested this in Nova, but that's what it says in the Bible, anyway. Let us know if it works.

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Quote

Originally posted by Wyvern:
**Unfortunately, last I checked anyway, outfit types of weapon or ammo only work in the first modtype modval location - I haven't tested this in Nova, but that's what it says in the Bible, anyway. Let us know if it works.

**

You're right. It doesn't work at all...seems like the engine just ignores ModVal2 if you put a ModType 3 (ammo) outfit on it, making the situation exactly like it is without using ModVal2 (but it was a good idea, and worth the try) So my aft torpedo launcher still fires photon torpedoes, but there's no way to restock it. Looks like I'll have to create another ammo type for it (next I'll try having different forward launchers use the same ammo, but never two on the same ship; maybe that'll work, and if it does, I'll try to post it here).

For ships that have the same rate of fire both forward and backward I guess I could just make it a turret with blind spots to the sides I guess.

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Mike Lee (Firebird)

I kinda skimmed over the rest of the posts in this topic, but I think that to see a good example of what you are talking about you should look at the Raven Rockets. The Turret and the Pod are both two different wëaps, and the ammo is seperate from those (it exists only as an oütf).

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Quote

Originally posted by EVula:
**I kinda skimmed over the rest of the posts in this topic, but I think that to see a good example of what you are talking about you should look at the Raven Rockets. The Turret and the Pod are both two different wëaps, and the ammo is seperate from those (it exists only as an oütf).

**

I'll check it out, but I'm doing this in EVO, and basically, you can't put two weapons with the same ammo on one ship. Otherwise it seems to be working (I have different models of photon torpedo launchers on different ships, and they can reload properly).

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Mike Lee (Firebird)

I tried to figure that stuff out myself. In EVO, I think, maybe it's possible, but for the items I've found so far seems to ignore it. If there is one thing you can have weapons share is the sprite graphic. I mean take a look at the basic rocket launcher, the turret rocket launcher, and the salvo rocket launcher. What do they have in common, they share the same sprites and masks. As for other parts of the graphic like in the outfit items and stuff, there are more than one but each with different RIDs.

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Quote

Originally posted by Firebird:
**I'll check it out, but I'm doing this in EVO, and basically, you can't put two weapons with the same ammo on one ship. Otherwise it seems to be working (I have different models of photon torpedo launchers on different ships, and they can reload properly).

**

Okay, I lied...it actually doesn't work. I guess I'll have to resort to the old way of creating an ammo type for each weapon then...

But I could swear I boarded a ship with a different launcher and stole torpedoes from it, and they worked. And it shouldn't, since EVO doesn't allow looting of ammo that's incompatible with your launchers. I found that kind of strange.

Oh well, I guess the old way to do things is always right. sigh

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Mike Lee (Firebird)

Another thing a creative genius could try is to make a stand-alone weapon. What I mean is a weapon that comes with its own disposable launcher, like a single nuke. It might be possible with the Gxxx command to give the player both a launcher and a single rocket by just buying one outfit. The problem is, once you fire it, you no longer own the rocket, but you still have the launcher, which was supposed to be self-contained in the rocket. So, any ideas on how to do it?

-Matt

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Hmm. Maybe have a launcher be an outfit that does nothing, but is a required outfit before you can buy the ammunition (which is actually a one-shot weapon). The problem would be preventing someone from selling the launcher before the 'ammunition' is sold. I think you can do that with Contribute and Require fields.

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Quote

Originally posted by wtimmins:
**Hmm. Maybe have a launcher be an outfit that does nothing, but is a required outfit before you can buy the ammunition (which is actually a one-shot weapon). The problem would be preventing someone from selling the launcher before the 'ammunition' is sold. I think you can do that with Contribute and Require fields.

**

I'm making this plug-in for EVO. I have no plans to use EVN in the near future, so this won't be an option. I believe EVN actually supports having multiple weapons use identical ammunition, but I'm not sure.

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Mike Lee (Firebird)

I kind of skimmed this thread, but for what its worth, my Robotech plug uses this extensively. To make two weapons use the same ammo, make the first weapon, weapon outfit, and ammo outfit normally. Setting the ammo type to the weapon's resource number seems to work best, not sure why. For each additional weapon, make just the weapon, set the ammo type to the ammo type/resource number of the first weapon, and make the weapon outfit normally. DO NOT MAKE A SECOND AMMO OUTFIT.

A few problems:
1. Nova outfits can't have mod types of 1 or 3 in the modval 2-4 fields-don't try/bother.
2. Making duplicate ammo outfits really screws up things.
3. A ship can not have multiple launchers on it (of different types) that fire the same ammo.

In my plug, for example, each ship has a custom weapon system, many of which include light missiles. This lets me customize the missiles each ship fires individually, though they only noticably vary by race. However, light missiles, generic-brand, can be bought anywhere and loaded into those myriad launchers, and fire with those specific attributes. The effect is kind of neat. Now, if only beams could hit planets, my two-level damage system would be complete....

~Charlie

This doesn't seem to work for me. I've done exactly what you said you did, but any weapons that use another weapon's AmmoType don't have their ammo show up (all I have is what came with the ship to begin with). Are you sure you can still purchase the same ammo for both and have it work properly?

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Mike Lee (Firebird)

Hmmm.

To answer your question, yes, I can re-arm. Strange. Well, as another suggestion, I found the way to do it inside the data files. Take a look at the way the Hail and Storm chainguns are set up- I did mine the same way as those. Thinking of which, I must withdraw statement #3 above. It is partially right- if the weapon itself has no intrinsic ammo limit (like the chaingun), then there doesn't seem to be a problem. My launchers are all tuned to the ship (An Alpha carries 60 missiles, a Beta 100, etc), but the ammo itself has no limit. This seems to cause troubles.

Sorry I can't offer more help (not without seeing your plug, at least). I'll post a stripped down example plug if you'd like, though.

~Charlie Sibbach

I think this is the problem: You're using Nova; I'm using Override. You probably didn't catch that in my post or something.

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Mike Lee (Firebird)

That would explain alot. Anymore I just assume everybody is using EVN. Sorry to waste your time like that. But for what it's worth, EVO doesn't seem to support that functionality- at least I could never make it work. Be sure to post if you do make it work, though.

~Charlie Sibbach